Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 36 of 36
  1. #21
    MMM
    MMM is online now Private Member
    Join Date
    October 2014
    Posts
    1,250
    Thanks
    312
    Thanked 551 Times in 384 Posts

    Default

    Personally i am less into tech anlysis of double top or not. But the main thing that worries me in terms of BTC being store of value, is the insane % of btc held by certain unknown people.

    Everybody speak about limited supply vs the deflation coming due to goverments priniting money. However, if i saw correctly, about 4M out of 18m mined btc are in dormant accounts. Not to mention probably few more that are held by some whalers and miners. So the real number of BTC in use is not really 18m out of 21.

    Any moment those accounts can become active flooding the market. Even if 50% of those "dromant" btc are lost forever - still the amount is huge. Relatively to that, few trillion dollars printed is nothing compared to the total market cap.

    So from certain perspective - indeed, no goverment can suddenly print btc and devalue it. But indeed few japanese, chinese or american early adopters, miners, etc - can flood the market.

    If someone here (Sherlock?) can explain what am i missing here I would appreciate it.
    Or maybe i am not...
    Best casinos to play slot machines online for real money. Reviews of best Real Money Casinos online.
    Check OnlineBlackjackExplorer for ratings of the best casinos to play blackjack online. Which games offer the lowest house edge, as well as free blackjack games, live dealer and mobile blackjack sites.

  2. #22
    tufty is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    November 2016
    Posts
    234
    Thanks
    87
    Thanked 146 Times in 90 Posts

    Default

    I think anyone in the us-facing affiliate space knows there is a huge use for it and it is being used. People should have cottoned on to that fact years ago - many doubters did. There were people here who had the cliched 'tulips' thing in every post they made about bitcoin and have now become converts for several years. It is like the big funds, who said no and now look around and see it needs to be part of the portfolio. I am sure the noise from their clients urging to invest has got louder and louder. How can you have property, gold, stocks and shares and not have bitcoin? It would be mad. It is fine to change your mind, but I would struggle to change my mind (if I had been a luddite) when the price is at an all-time high. You have missed the boat. People thought that before and the boat came around again - just $3000+ earlier in year.

    I am not a fan because I have a lot but because if I had a ton of cash right now, bitcoin would be my number 1 choice of investment especially at these particular times. I don't know what the future holds and I do know the bitcoin price is very sensitive to sentiment, well to everything. It would be no surprise to me for it to have a 50% retracement - it's what it does historically. One bit of bad news always does that to it. People say, now the holders are less fickle - they are bigger funds etc. It only takes one of them to pull out in a high profile way for confidence to be lost for a while. I don't mind the ride - I have long term holdings that I just hodl but I also buy on the big dips and sell on the peaks. Nothing more than two or three trades like that in the last year (and the year before that nothing), but that is all that is needed. Yes it may go to zero in the future, but right now, it is being used in the real world and it is additionally also a store of value and potential protection for your under-threat cash. It is more flexible than gold in so many ways and they are not suddenly going to find a mountain of bitcoin.

    The human condition is to remain entrenched in their views, whereas trying to keep an open mind and changing position is often the most profitable option. However, if I wasn't a buyer before, then I wouldn't be a buyer now, at an all-time high. So I understand that.

    If it retraces I lose millions on paper, it wont be the first time and then my buy orders kick in anyway - that is a hedge against disappointment. My only real disappointment would be if it curled up and died and was buried. I dont see it happening just now, it is just too useful in so many ways.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to tufty For This Useful Post:

    Sherlock (17 December 2020)

  4. #23
    Sherlock's Avatar
    Sherlock is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2013
    Location
    WC
    Posts
    3,740
    Thanks
    1,174
    Thanked 3,008 Times in 1,664 Posts

    Default

    You can look at any other asset. Look at Bezos and his stock. It is the same, he can flood at any time the market with his shares and maybe break not just AMZN, but all markets of the world.

    Now the question is: why should he do it?

    Those unnamed whales, who are they? Most likley some idealistic cypherpunks, who live like me with computer, glass of water and cat. Maybe they could in fact start an attack on world economy, because they are pissed off, but... in fact they need money much less than Bezos who has to pay off his exwife or private jets.

    What you are missing is so called marginal propensity to consume and marginal propensity to save. The richer people are the higher is marginal propensity to save. I am saving maybe 99% of income for example because I have money. (But my rule even when I was poor was to save 95%. I was homeless because of that. The way to make money is simply not to spend.) The BTC whales do not need to spend the money.

    Same thinking is when you are driving and maybe you think: what if I turn the wheel at the curve a bit. I will be dead. Yes, you can do it, but you will not. Same problem is what POS coins are (not) having: if whales decide to disrupt the coin, they can do it much more than by POW coins.

    I understand psychologically the fear of unknown powerful someone. But it is a fear that made sense in deep forests. Now we should be afraid much more from known powerful entities: like politicians, central bankers and even more from society. Society can and does and will force the cantral bankers and politicians do the same that you fear of whales. They are and will disrupt the money and the economy. Because they must. Because society forces them. The whale 1. does not need that much money for consumption 2. even if the whale wants the money, it wants to offload without disrupting the market to get the most value out of it.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Sherlock For This Useful Post:

    tufty (17 December 2020)

  6. #24
    Sherlock's Avatar
    Sherlock is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2013
    Location
    WC
    Posts
    3,740
    Thanks
    1,174
    Thanked 3,008 Times in 1,664 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    I wasn't a buyer before, then I wouldn't be a buyer now, at an all-time high. So I understand that.

    It is like the big funds, who said no and now look around and see it needs to be part of the portfolio. I am sure the noise from their clients urging to invest has got louder and louder. How can you have property, gold, stocks and shares and not have bitcoin?
    Absolutely. Those are the two driving factors now. Even when the rich people / institutions know they missed the boat, they have no other option than to jump in. Incredibly well summarised.

    Years back I wrote the plan. I am an egoistic idiot, who things it was "my plan", but probably I read it elsewhere and thought after I was the inventor. Anyways the plan was 1st some early adopters, then those rich people who can not afford to miss the boat and who will buy secretly (which is something that happens right now, yday some billionaire revealed he kept buying for 700 M USD secretly etc).

    And the last phase - if bitcoin survives technically - will be central banks buying bitcoin.

    After that the BTC will be the underlying asset under the central bank money. So defacto everyone will pay with BTC (or some other crypto that will replace BTC) without touching it or even knowing it. This is inevitable from the beginning. Meanwhile society will crumble. Cyberfeudalism and cybercommunism will fight to each other. But some crypto behind will not care. The real battle to watch will be POW vs POS. Anything else is irrelevant.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  7. #25
    AussieDave's Avatar
    AussieDave is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    November 2005
    Location
    from the land downunder
    Posts
    3,857
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    1,531
    Thanked 1,730 Times in 989 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    Once bitcoins are actaully mined then nothing. Just we all will be dead.
    What we invest time into, or in some cases, waste time in...

    Your statement really makes one think of what truly is IMPORTANT
    ---
    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
    ---

    igaming affiliates rights - fairness for all iGaming affiliates

  8. #26
    edgarf76's Avatar
    edgarf76 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2013
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,852
    Thanks
    647
    Thanked 506 Times in 359 Posts

    Default

    23K, I did not think it would break 20K this year. Unreal.

  9. #27
    universal4's Avatar
    universal4 is offline Forum Administrator
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    Courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway. John Wayne
    Posts
    27,072
    Thanks
    1,914
    Thanked 7,732 Times in 4,873 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    After that the BTC will be the underlying asset under the central bank money. So defacto everyone will pay with BTC (or some other crypto that will replace BTC) without touching it or even knowing it.
    I think this is what the central bank plans.

    Rick
    Universal4

  10. #28
    Sherlock's Avatar
    Sherlock is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2013
    Location
    WC
    Posts
    3,740
    Thanks
    1,174
    Thanked 3,008 Times in 1,664 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    I think this is what the central bank plans.

    Rick
    Universal4
    I do not know whether central banks have some plans, but of course, if something replaces BTC, it simply can not be some central bank coin or corporate coin.

    I do not know how people still do not get it, I am spinning my head over really. Bitcoin is the best, not because of the technology. But because it was first and - what is important in this context - that it is far more decentralised than any other currency or even cryptocurrency. This is why Satoshi disappeared - to erase the last point of centralisation: himself.

    Central bank coin is a bullshit. It can not work. The level of trust into such coin is the same as level of trust into fiat. Such coin can be always manipulated in a way as fiat is on daily basis. And because it can be manipulated, it is manipulated, like QE. And because it is manipulated, it will fail and will be replaced by something better and decentralised. The best decentralised tool now is BTC.

    The only way how BTC can be dethroned is that some other crypto will emerge, but it must be even more decentralised than BTC. Otherwise of course no one will accept is as safe haven, because if it is less decentralised than BTC, then it is even less safe.

    So again (and again): bitcoin value comes from the 2 networks: the networks of users, exchanges, hodlers etc. And from the network of miners and nodes. Both are fairly decentralised and no other (crypto)currency beats it. No one can decide to create more than 21M BTC (in fact any miner can decide to change the code and mine 210M or 21B BTC, but that would create the fork and no one will accept those forked coins. Central bank coin and fiat of central bank can be always created out of thin air. And that is why people do not fiat. And that is why people with fiat buy BTC.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  11. #29
    TheGooner's Avatar
    TheGooner is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,206
    Thanks
    1,916
    Thanked 4,151 Times in 1,972 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    Central bank coin is a bullshit. It can not work. The level of trust into such coin is the same as level of trust into fiat. Such coin can be always manipulated in a way as fiat is on daily basis. And because it can be manipulated, it is manipulated, like QE. And because it is manipulated, it will fail and will be replaced by something better and decentralised. The best decentralised tool now is BTC.
    ...
    No one can decide to create more than 21M BTC
    Or to put it a slightly more simplistic way - a central bank coin is really NO different from a central bank dollar bill. There are too many dollar bills, and more being printed every day. That's the problem - that's the scenario pushing scarce assets like bitcoin, gold bullion, fine art and real estate to higher and higher levels.

    It is the hard limit of 21m BTC that creates a scarce resource that can also be quickly traded and exchanged worldwide without government censorship or bnak interference that gives BTC a unique value proposition. (And remember just 18m at present and maybe only 14m as up to 4m may be lost in forgotten wallets).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    The only way how BTC can be dethroned is that some other crypto will emerge, but it must be even more decentralised than BTC. Otherwise of course no one will accept is as safe haven, because if it is less decentralised than BTC, then it is even less safe.
    Indeed. There are other value options in crypto right now - but most of them like ETH, LINK, ATOM, DOT are considered value for their utility in what looks like being groundbreaking applications in blockchain technology - NOT for their rarity.

    It is very hard to see another crypto token that can be now created and obtain value for rarity alone. BTC was first. BTC was original. BTC is quite unique in that regard. And as institutions and financial muscle also take up that mantra it becomes a reality.

    Will it be forever? Who knows? A year in crypto is a decade in the real world as things move so quickly.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to TheGooner For This Useful Post:

    allaboutthebets (18 December 2020)

  13. #30
    LegalBetAndy's Avatar
    LegalBetAndy is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    location, location
    Posts
    44
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts

    Default

    Yes, good points, I could be wrong and there is bound to be massive swings up and down on the way. Long term though, in my opinion sooner or later Bitcoin will be trumped by something else. It has first mover advantage and that is important but other than that...

    If it runs up to 40k well done everyone who bought at 20k though. He who dares Rodney!

  14. #31
    tufty is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    November 2016
    Posts
    234
    Thanks
    87
    Thanked 146 Times in 90 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LegalBetAndy View Post
    Yes, good points, I could be wrong and there is bound to be massive swings up and down on the way. Long term though, in my opinion sooner or later Bitcoin will be trumped by something else. It has first mover advantage and that is important but other than that...

    If it runs up to 40k well done everyone who bought at 20k though. He who dares Rodney!

    Maybe Sherlock's point about decentralisation sets it apart from most others. I thought this was worth a read ("Why is 20K Bitcoin Worth Anything At All"):
    https://www.coindesk.com/over-20k-wh...nything-at-all

  15. #32
    Sherlock's Avatar
    Sherlock is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2013
    Location
    WC
    Posts
    3,740
    Thanks
    1,174
    Thanked 3,008 Times in 1,664 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LegalBetAndy View Post
    Yes, good points, I could be wrong and there is bound to be massive swings up and down on the way. Long term though, in my opinion sooner or later Bitcoin will be trumped by something else. It has first mover advantage and that is important but other than that...

    If it runs up to 40k well done everyone who bought at 20k though. He who dares Rodney!
    There is a strong tide against this thinking and each day is becoming stronger (and BTC already has 11 years). You might not be aware of it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  16. #33
    BenzBuggie's Avatar
    BenzBuggie is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2020
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    bitcoin will reach levels that are astronomical. when it has acceptance of the general public, you will see 500k plus

  17. #34
    Sherlock's Avatar
    Sherlock is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2013
    Location
    WC
    Posts
    3,740
    Thanks
    1,174
    Thanked 3,008 Times in 1,664 Posts

    Default

    Stop astronomically sh1tposting accross the board.
    Good bye.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Sherlock For This Useful Post:

    allaboutthebets (20 December 2020)

  19. #35
    PROFRBcom's Avatar
    PROFRBcom is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    April 2013
    Posts
    1,597
    Thanks
    1,307
    Thanked 972 Times in 624 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LegalBetAndy View Post
    If it runs up to 40k well done everyone who bought at 20k though. He who dares Rodney!
    Congrats to anyone that sold at 40-41k. Even more congrats if you rebought at the very brief 32k dip!

  20. #36
    Jambo is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2013
    Posts
    479
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 159 Times in 105 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BenzBuggie View Post
    bitcoin will reach levels that are astronomical. when it has acceptance of the general public, you will see 500k plus
    500k probably not. But 100-150k is possible. When 1 BTC was still worth 8 cents, nobody would have thought that it would be 40k at some point.
    https://www.yourpokerdream.com/

    - Contact us if you are looking for fantastic Sub-Affiliate Deals at GGPoker/Natural8/iPoker/Unibet or the WPN Network-

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •