Breaking News: DOJ says only sportsbetting violates Wire Act

[lots0]

@TheOnlyPoker
Perdy obvious you never did talk to a real lawyer...

OH well, like I said before, believe what you want.

Anyone with any real concern in this matter should talk to their own lawyers...

[universal4]

Interesting debate to say the least.

I have not completely formed an opinion as to whether I feel this will be good for the industry or not, so I will just wait and let the chips fall where they may....

Rick
Universal4

....(would someone help chips up since he seems to fall a lot lately...)

[boczom1]

so......anybody know if Casino Coins is coming back now ?

since everything seems happy again.

I want my Players back....arghhh

[TheOnlyPoker]

@TheOnlyPoker
Perdy obvious you never did talk to a real lawyer...

OH well, like I said before, believe what you want.

Anyone with any real concern in this matter should talk to their own lawyers...

Albert Einstein was very much criticized by Hitler.

Hitler had a group of 100 top scientists in Germany write a book called 100 scientists against Einstein. Einstein was asked: `Doesn't it bother you Dr Einstein that you've got so many scientists against you?'
Einstein replied: 'It doesn't take 100 scientists to prove me wrong, it takes a single fact'.

[Caruso]

They relate because the Federal Wire Act of 1961 makes sports betting or contest bets online unlawful in the US which directly effects what the UIGEA makes unlawful. And in the UIGEA it says that it's only illegal if it is unlawful under any federal or state law. When they say wire I think they mean any telecommunications like over the internet or phone to accept wagers.

The UIGEA says that the Wire Act makes sportsbetting illegal? Well, that's a new take on legislation, a bill which says that a previous bill illegalises what was already illegalised in that previous bill.

That's a bit silly. There is no relation between the two.

1) The Wire Act made SBing illegal.

2) The UIGEA says that what is already illegal on a state or national level is considered "illegal" online, as per the clause I quoted - section 201, 10 A.

All your government appears to have said here is that the Wire Act made SBing illegal. Breaking news, LOL.

[Caruso]

What Prof Rose seems to say, (paraphrasing) is that IF the bet/wager is made legal by state law, then UIGEA does not apply.

I hope professors aren't being reduced to making such redundant statements as "if it was previously illegal but not now, then the legislation saying it's illegal no longer applies, as it isn't illegal".

I mean, talk about stating the obvious.

I think the level of excitement generated by the statement at the top of the thread is wildly out of proportion:

In a story that has broke only an hour or so ago, the U.S. Department of Justice revealed that it has changed its long-held position and found that the federal Wire Act of 1961 only applies to sports betting.

Thanks. I already knew that.

Someone tell them the wheel's been invented. They may not have noticed.

[lots0]

Albert Einstein was very much criticized by Hitler.

Hitler had a group of 100 top scientists in Germany write a book called 100 scientists against Einstein. Einstein was asked: `Doesn't it bother you Dr Einstein that you've got so many scientists against you?'
Einstein replied: 'It doesn't take 100 scientists to prove me wrong, it takes a single fact'.

People usually resort to weird Hitler references when they have lost the argument... lol

I think the level of excitement generated by the statement at the top of the thread is wildly out of proportion:

Caruso from what you have said you don't work in the business and you don't live or work in the States, so I can understand why you believe that this is all overblown.

But to someone who makes their living from this business... THIS NEWS IS HUGE!

I have not completely formed an opinion as to whether I feel this will be good for the industry or not, so I will just wait and let the chips fall where they may....

I don't know if it will be 'good for the industry' or not, but from what I see and hear it is good for the Casinos.
In the UK Casino Stocks are soaring...

[32x]

I have to say that I do live in the states and before anything in this country can happen, there has to be a BILL in place before it becomes a LAW. Right now, this is just talk. The UIGEA BILL was passed and is currently a LAW. If and when this ever passes, there will be a public declaration on Capital Hill with an anouncement of the new Law. If the UIGEA BILL was not relevant, than why is the FBI still on the move?

Here is a fbi.gov link for the search terms "internet gambling 2011"
http://www.fbi.gov/fbi-search?cx=004...2011&sa=Search

It doesn't look to me as if the FBI is stopping. The UIGEA Bill is extremely complex and the FBI has constitutional rights, such as Eminent Domain, on their side.

I would love to believe that this is happening now, but it is a long way from a Law.

[lots0]

I have to say that I do live in the states and before anything in this country can happen, there has to be a BILL in place before it becomes a LAW. Right now, this is just talk. The UIGEA BILL was passed and is currently a LAW. If and when this ever passes, there will be a public declaration on Capital Hill with an anouncement of the new Law. If the UIGEA BILL was not relevant, than why is the FBI still on the move?

Here is a fbi.gov link for the search terms "internet gambling 2011"
http://www.fbi.gov/fbi-search?cx=004...2011&sa=Search

It doesn't look to me as if the FBI is stopping. The UIGEA Bill is extremely complex and the FBI has constitutional rights, such as Eminent Domain, on their side.

I would love to believe that this is happening now, but it is a long way from a Law.

LOL... wow

The people that actually enforce the law and tell the FBI what to do (the US Justice Department) has decided (in a Binding Legal Opinion) that the ONLY federal law against Online gambling ONLY applies to ONLINE SPORTS BETTING... If you don't understand what that means... Oh Well, not my problem.

Like I said before...

Anyone with a real interest in this should talk to their own lawyers and see what they say...
If you can't afford a few hundred for a lawyer's opinion on this, then you really don't have an 'interest' in this issue...

[32x]

LOL... wow

The people that actually enforce the law and tell the FBI what to do (the US Justice Department) has decided (in a Binding Legal Opinion) that the ONLY federal law against Online gambling ONLY applies to ONLINE SPORTS BETTING... If you don't understand what that means... Oh Well, not my problem.

Like I said before...

Anyone with a real interest in this should talk to their own lawyers and see what they say...
If you can't afford a few hundred for a lawyer's opinion on this, then you really don't have an 'interest' in this issue...

This is a public forum. All of the topics are up for opinionated discussion. All I am doing is voicing my opinion, and I don't need a lawyer to do that. If we applied your "lawyer" comment to every thread in GPWA, there would be no discussions at all.

This is not a legal forum. Every topic is up for FRIENDLY public discussion.

[Alain]

Interesting news. I don't think we can crack open the champagne bottles just yet. Lets see how the individual states play this one.
Still, I also feel excited and hope to see things back to how they were a few years ago.
I wonder for example if non-US based / registered affiliates can enjoy the opening or will they have to be reged (for tax and other purposes). In order to be legit. Also, can this be enforced or not.
I allow myself a small HOORAY!!!

I wish us all a very prosperous 2012 and may we all get to enjoy this new breeze.
Have a great NY party everybody.

[TheOnlyPoker]

People usually resort to weird Hitler references when they have lost the argument... lol

Yes, you're a funny guy indeed.

Allow me to share something with you. I just received an email from a fellow who is a well-known consultant/attorney, practicing in the G industry. He was kind enough to answer my question. I'll quote the key sentence from his remarks:

....The crime is the acceptance of money to fund player accounts. The fact that DOJ now admits that the Wire Wager Act is only applicable to sports betting does not in any way change the application of the UIGEA to the online operators of poker, etc. sites.

[alexpratt]

The AGA have responded to the change here http://www.igamingbusiness.com/conte...act-alteration

[lots0]

The AGA have responded to the change here http://www.igamingbusiness.com/conte...act-alteration

So the AGA is taking the same position as Caesars Casino.

I can understand why some people would want Federal Regulation (federal Laws).
But I for one believe that federal regulation will only be protectionist for the big casino corporations and will eventually shut out ALL the small and midsized affiliates.
The US Federal Government screws up everything it touches, IMO.

This is a public forum. All of the topics are up for opinionated discussion. All I am doing is voicing my opinion, and I don't need a lawyer to do that. If we applied your "lawyer" comment to every thread in GPWA, there would be no discussions at all.

This is not a legal forum. Every topic is up for FRIENDLY public discussion.

OMG, did I hurt your feelings.
I want people WITH A REAL INTEREST in this subject to be CORRECTLY informed about this very important issue. The only way they are going to be correctly informed is by hiring a legal expert on online gambling and listen to what they say.
I can't believe your having a problem with that.

I will say that from what you have written so far in this thread, your understanding of the US legal system is about 3rd grade level and you would benefit quite a bit from a nice long discussion with a lawyer... So maybe you should break out the piggy bank and hire a lawyer.


@theonlypoker, Why not name the lawyer? Why be so mysterious? I think you didn't name the lawyer because you either made the comment up or the comment came before the the binding legal opinion of the Justice Department last Friday.
I am also beginning to believe that you have some motive($$) for wanting people to think nothing has changed...

also, just to put a stick in your eye... looks like the AGA agrees with me as well.

[TheOnlyPoker]

@theonlypoker, your comments are not even worth commenting on... You are uninformed and becoming very troll like...

Why not name the lawyer? Why be so mysterious? I think you didn't name the lawyer because you either made the comment up or the comment came before the the binding legal opinion of the Justice Department last Friday.

also, just to put a stick in your eye... looks like the AGA agrees with me as well.

You sir, are not a gentleman. You appear to operate in a state of naivety. The only reason i engaged with you at all, is because you attacked me. Let that be said. I have suffered your insults and corrected your fabrications and false statements for the benefit of others here. You are not professional. Your type are bad for the business in my opinion. You need to grow up.

The quote i made above was indeed from a very well-known industry lawyer and consultant, t'was from a private email exchange. Its not appropriate to name the individual without his permission granted. You are quite free to have your lawyer challenge the remark.

I'm closing this discourse with you now, you're on ignore henceforth.

[lots0]

You sir, are not a gentleman....

I'm closing this discourse with you now, you're on ignore henceforth.

THANK YOU

BTW - everyone here that knows me knows I am not a gentleman... Your lame attempt at an insult is funny. I been called much worse, by better people, on this forum over the last 8+ years I have been a member here.

I find it odd that your ONLY posts in this entire forum are on this one thread...

Yes it looks more and more like Mr. theonlypoker has an agenda, to misinform and misdirect about this very important issue...

[grem]

Expecting to see states fight over who gets the online gambling money and taxes.

To theonlypoker what is your affiliate program?

[TheOnlyPoker]

I'm a poker game developer. We don't have an affiliate manager yet. We're still in beta. One day soon ( i hope) we'll pay our dues here, and announce the program.

Expecting to see states fight over who gets the online gambling money and taxes.

To theonlypoker what is your affiliate program?

[Anthony]

So the AGA is taking the same position as Caesars Casino.

I can understand why some people would want Federal Regulation (federal Laws).
But I for one believe that federal regulation will only be protectionist for the big casino corporations and will eventually shut out ALL the small and midsized affiliates.
The US Federal Government screws up everything it touches, IMO.

Well said.

Caesars, AGA, Fair Play USA are all pushing for federal regulation because it is clearly in their best interests and the large corporations would certainly control the industry. The criminalize then legalize strategy is to their advantage.

Congress is really divided now and everything that comes before it takes a long time and seems to divide them even more. I don't see Federal legislation passing before a state legalizes it. But Vegas has deep pockets and I guess they feel any issue can be overcome if you throw enough money at it.

[Caruso]

Caruso from what you have said you don't work in the business and you don't live or work in the States, so I can understand why you believe that this is all overblown.

But to someone who makes their living from this business... THIS NEWS IS HUGE!

I don't know what you mean by "work in the industry" beyond running an affiliated site, as the vast majority here.

Anyway, I will ask anyone who wants to answer, please: WHAT IS THE NEWS?

I already know the Wire ACT only relates to sports. So what, in this admin news release thingy, is news to me?

Shouldn't be too hard a question, given it's such massive news. Someone please put me straight. Thanks.