Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Muppet is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Posts
    575
    Thanks
    165
    Thanked 659 Times in 289 Posts

    Default Brightshare warning: shaved commissions

    Bear with me, this will be a long one as it has been over 18 months in the making.

    TLDR version: we have proof that Brightshare have been shaving affiliates on custom or flat rate deals for years. If you have an account like that you need to check because I am positive that you have been shaved.

    A long time back now we discovered that Brightshare had been underpaying us on a flat rate deal that we agreed with Lloyd Apter way back at the Barcelona affiliate conference of 2008. The way the scam works is this: you refer players to their casinos under your regular tracker, but any customers that end up playing on their mobile sites get re-tagged under a new tracker that you never created yourself and then paid under the default scaled revenue share at the lowest rate.

    I have confirmed this with another affiliate and the most galling thing is that after I alerted them to the problem they approached Brightshare and were back paid and made good. But not us.

    They got away with this for a long time on our account through my own negligence. As we have hundreds of affiliate programs to monitor, we use StatsRemote and I wasn't often looking closely at the actual affiliate accounts at the time. However after noticing a dramatic drop in revenue one month I looked up the website and found that they had retroactively dropped our flat rate commission to the standard flat rate, not just on the mobile tagged customers, but on all our previously referred customers without notifying us.

    We had always had a good relationship with guys that worked there such as Lloyd, Liyu, and Roberto, so when I discovered the discrepancy I noted the errors and sent a request for a payment for the amount owning, fully expecting it to be fixed up without issue. I wasn't even asking for the full amount owed because their new affiliate system makes it impossible to go back far enough through the historical stats to see when the shaving really started. i.e. I know they owe us even more than what we are asking for (a 4 figure sum) but can't prove it and I was willing to let that slide for the sake of getting paid for what I could prove.

    That was close to 12 months ago and in the intervening time we have had the misfortune of having to deal with the grossly incompetent Leigh Lourens. Her usual schtick is to take more than a week to reply to anything, then ignore what you asked for, delay, obfuscate, and generally do as much as possible to string you along without actually accomplishing anything.

    Things came to a head a few weeks ago when she finally told us to show proof that we had a flat rate deal, after almost a year of promising to sort it out. Obviously she thought that being such long term affiliates we wouldn't have proof. Unfortunately for her I have emails exchanged between us and Lloyd Apter in 2008 that proved we agreed the deal. Obviously that made her look pretty stupid. So today she writes back saying that it doesn't matter because "there was no signed contract". Well excuse me, but I am willing to bet that they do not have a signed contract with ANY affiliate on a flat rate deal. The proof is in the pudding as they say, and the pudding is this: we have the agreement documented on email (this is a valid contract by the way, signatures are not required) and they have been paying us on that flat rate deal for 7 or so years until they got caught trying to retroactively change it without telling us. Their mobile casinos did not exist at the time we agreed the deal and at no stage did we ever track mobile customers differently or refer them using different links to the standard casinos - this was all done on Brightshare's end.

    So Leigh has basically told us to talk to the hand, we won't be getting paid what we are owed, even though we know they paid others in the same situation as us, which is an admission of guilt if I ever saw one. She then had the utter audacity to refer to us as "valued affiliates" and told us that we could regain our flat rate deal if we put them on prominent spots on our website. I know from our interaction that she's not particularly "bright", but that must be taking the ****, surely?

    We know that Lloyd came out and accused them of shaving players a while back. There is another current thread complaining about the use of "non-cash incentives" to artificially reduce commissions. The evidence is clear.

    Brightshare are a rogue program run by criminals.

    Leigh Lourens is an unethical affiliate manager and complicit in their thievery.

    If you are a long time affiliate on a flat rate agreement I am certain that you have been shaved at some stage with the mobile tracker scam. I urge you to check your accounts and if possible blacklist their casinos. It is only a matter of time before they find new ways to shave in the future.
    Last edited by Muppet; 1 June 2016 at 6:36 pm.

  2. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Muppet For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (1 June 2016), celena (17 June 2016), dfiocch (2 June 2016), eenzoo (6 June 2016), lunaraurora (14 June 2016), Redbush54 (2 June 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016), rtgbonus (2 June 2016), sunsation72 (21 June 2016), Syndicate (17 June 2016), universal4 (1 June 2016)

  3. #2
    alexcorsa's Avatar
    alexcorsa is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    July 2014
    Location
    www
    Posts
    146
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts

    Default

    This program must have an audit...

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to alexcorsa For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  5. #3
    rtgbonus's Avatar
    rtgbonus is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    August 2011
    Posts
    113
    Thanks
    96
    Thanked 32 Times in 27 Posts

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to rtgbonus For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  7. #4
    Jokerman99 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    81
    Thanked 247 Times in 145 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    Bear with me, this will be a long one as it has been over 18 months in the making.

    TLDR version: we have proof that Brightshare have been shaving affiliates on custom or flat rate deals for years. If you have an account like that you need to check because I am positive that you have been shaved.

    A long time back now we discovered that Brightshare had been underpaying us on a flat rate deal that we agreed with Lloyd Apter way back at the Barcelona affiliate conference of 2008. The way the scam works is this: you refer players to their casinos under your regular tracker, but any customers that end up playing on their mobile sites get re-tagged under a new tracker that you never created yourself and then paid under the default scaled revenue share at the lowest rate.

    I have confirmed this with another affiliate and the most galling thing is that after I alerted them to the problem they approached Brightshare and were back paid and made good. But not us.

    They got away with this for a long time on our account through my own negligence. As we have hundreds of affiliate programs to monitor, we use StatsRemote and I wasn't often looking closely at the actual affiliate accounts at the time. However after noticing a dramatic drop in revenue one month I looked up the website and found that they had retroactively dropped our flat rate commission to the standard flat rate, not just on the mobile tagged customers, but on all our previously referred customers without notifying us.

    We had always had a good relationship with guys that worked there such as Lloyd, Liyu, and Roberto, so when I discovered the discrepancy I noted the errors and sent a request for a payment for the amount owning, fully expecting it to be fixed up without issue. I wasn't even asking for the full amount owed because their new affiliate system makes it impossible to go back far enough through the historical stats to see when the shaving really started. i.e. I know they owe us even more than what we are asking for (a 4 figure sum) but can't prove it and I was willing to let that slide for the sake of getting paid for what I could prove.

    That was close to 12 months ago and in the intervening time we have had the misfortune of having to deal with the grossly incompetent Leigh Lourens. Her usual schtick is to take more than a week to reply to anything, then ignore what you asked for, delay, obfuscate, and generally do as much as possible to string you along without actually accomplishing anything.

    Things came to a head a few weeks ago when she finally told us to show proof that we had a flat rate deal, after almost a year of promising to sort it out. Obviously she thought that being such long term affiliates we wouldn't have proof. Unfortunately for her I have emails exchanged between us and Lloyd Apter in 2008 that proved we agreed the deal. Obviously that made her look pretty stupid. So today she writes back saying that it doesn't matter because "there was no signed contract". Well excuse me, but I am willing to bet that they do not have a signed contract with ANY affiliate on a flat rate deal. The proof is in the pudding as they say, and the pudding is this: we have the agreement documented on email (this is a valid contract by the way, signatures are not required) and they have been paying us on that flat rate deal for 7 or so years until they got caught trying to retroactively change it without telling us. Their mobile casinos did not exist at the time we agreed the deal and at no stage did we ever track mobile customers differently or refer them using different links to the standard casinos - this was all done on Brightshare's end.

    So Leigh has basically told us to talk to the hand, we won't be getting paid what we are owed, even though we know they paid others in the same situation as us, which is an admission of guilt if I ever saw one. She then had the utter audacity to refer to us as "valued affiliates" and told us that we could regain our flat rate deal if we put them on prominent spots on our website. I know from our interaction that she's not particularly "bright", but that must be taking the ****, surely?

    We know that Lloyd came out and accused them of shaving players a while back. There is another current thread complaining about the use of "non-cash incentives" to artificially reduce commissions. The evidence is clear.

    Brightshare are a rogue program run by criminals.

    Leigh Lourens is an unethical affiliate manager and complicit in their thievery.

    If you are a long time affiliate on a flat rate agreement I am certain that you have been shaved at some stage with the mobile tracker scam. I urge you to check your accounts and if possible blacklist their casinos. It is only a matter of time before they find new ways to shave in the future.
    You are not the only one. We'd agreed a deal for the period where we actively promoted Brightshare. We specifically outlined a scenario where we may drop them to position X and after several exchanges where we refused to work with them they finally agreed in writing that we would retain our % if they dropped to position X. Fast forward several months, conversions are poor so we drop them to position X. 4 weeks later we're dropped to the tiered system in spite of our protests and showing evidence to the Brighshare representative of our previous discussions. Absolute scum and Fortune Afifliates their sister company are no different hence why I recommend everyone chooses CPA only with them.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jokerman99 For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (2 June 2016), Muppet (2 June 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  9. #5
    Anthony's Avatar
    Anthony is offline Affiliate Services
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    7,030
    Blog Entries
    67
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 3,317 Times in 1,739 Posts

    Default

    Thank you for bringing this to every ones attention. Even though Brightshare is no longer a sponsor I contacted them with the concerns from this thread.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
    Apply for Private Membership | Apply for the GPWA Seal | Partner with a GPWA Sponsor | Volunteer as a Moderator


  10. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Anthony For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (2 June 2016), ccl (2 June 2016), celena (17 June 2016), dfiocch (2 June 2016), Muppet (2 June 2016), NickyV (2 June 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  11. #6
    Muppet is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Posts
    575
    Thanks
    165
    Thanked 659 Times in 289 Posts

    Default

    Thanks jokerman99, that sounds like par for the course with these crooks now. Their casinos are nowhere near as good as there were comparatively 5 years ago, with the innovative newer European groups having better games, quicker payments, and more choice for players. Plus they opted not to pony up for a UK license. It looks to me like they are trying to shave their costs and let their service levels decline in an effort to wring as much money as they can out of the customers they have left. They certainly aren't going to be pulling in large numbers of new players by treating affiliates like dirt.

    Thanks Anthony, but I'm not holding my breath expecting a resolution. I expect that you will be totally ignored, like they usually do. At least they will be aware that it is now public like I told them it would be. I was exceedingly patient with them and gave them close to a year to make this right and they haven't so I don't expect them to now.

    I want to make sure all affiliates are aware of the type of crooks running their declining business and of the absolute contempt with which their incompetent affiliate managers will treat even long-term affiliates. If I can save even one new player or affiliate from signing up with these crims due to bad publicity it will have been worth it.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Muppet For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  13. #7
    Muppet is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Posts
    575
    Thanks
    165
    Thanked 659 Times in 289 Posts

    Default

    As expected, I have not heard a peep from Leigh Lourens and the other Brightshare criminals after my last email to them. That was 2 weeks ago, before this thread was started.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Muppet For This Useful Post:

    dfiocch (15 June 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016), universal4 (14 June 2016)

  15. #8
    lunaraurora's Avatar
    lunaraurora is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    212
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts

    Default

    Thanks for these info. I ever suspected something wrong in their program (starting from stats).. and i got the confirmation.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to lunaraurora For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  17. #9
    celena's Avatar
    celena is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    July 2008
    Posts
    1,758
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    3,673
    Thanked 2,196 Times in 1,061 Posts

    Default

    Thank you for this information.
    I promote in this casino and I see very few players.
    Now I understand why!

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to celena For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  19. #10
    FreeSpins is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    June 2016
    Posts
    255
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 129 Times in 78 Posts

    Default

    Hi guys,

    The same for more. Very bad experience with them. We used to promote them hard but only few players and some pennies in commission. What a joke! Never again. It's a waste of time and money.

    Be aware.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to FreeSpins For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  21. #11
    Anthony's Avatar
    Anthony is offline Affiliate Services
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    7,030
    Blog Entries
    67
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 3,317 Times in 1,739 Posts

    Default

    As Muppet predicted, I did not receive a reply from Brightshare. It is disappointing since they were a good program and we always communicated well. Casino City also has a flat revenue share deal in place. I logged into our account to double check the rate and just like the other affiliates here our commission rate was changed. They don't have an excuse for it and can't pull the "emails don't count" BS since I do have a signed contract on file.

    Apparently that doesn't seem to matter. I will continue my efforts to reach them and if anyone gets back with me I will update the thread.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
    Apply for Private Membership | Apply for the GPWA Seal | Partner with a GPWA Sponsor | Volunteer as a Moderator


  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Anthony For This Useful Post:

    dfiocch (24 June 2016), Muppet (23 June 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  23. #12
    Muppet is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Posts
    575
    Thanks
    165
    Thanked 659 Times in 289 Posts

    Default

    It wouldn't matter what proof you showed them. I have email records so they claim a signed contract was needed. If you have a signed contract they will probably claim it isn't valid under Malta law or some other excuse.

    It is as clear as day that they have decided to burn all affiliates and just go with what they have in terms of players for the future. They are just managing their decline at this point in time.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to Muppet For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  25. #13
    Anthony's Avatar
    Anthony is offline Affiliate Services
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    7,030
    Blog Entries
    67
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 3,317 Times in 1,739 Posts

    Default

    I am sure they will try to come up with an excuse. Since they ignored me, I filed a complaint with eCOGRA. Brightshare is an "Affiliate Trust" seal holder. I will be quite interested in what their response to me will be.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
    Apply for Private Membership | Apply for the GPWA Seal | Partner with a GPWA Sponsor | Volunteer as a Moderator


  26. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Anthony For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (25 June 2016), celena (13 July 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016), sunsation72 (29 June 2016)

  27. #14
    TheGamblingGuru's Avatar
    TheGamblingGuru is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2009
    Location
    Tamarack Forest
    Posts
    323
    Thanks
    739
    Thanked 181 Times in 114 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    I am sure they will try to come up with an excuse. Since they ignored me, I filed a complaint with eCOGRA. Brightshare is an "Affiliate Trust" seal holder. I will be quite interested in what their response to me will be.
    What was eCOGRA's response?


    ____
    ____

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to TheGamblingGuru For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  29. #15
    Anthony's Avatar
    Anthony is offline Affiliate Services
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    7,030
    Blog Entries
    67
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 3,317 Times in 1,739 Posts

    Default

    Thank you for following up, I did receive a reply from eCOGRA regarding my email regarding their Affiliate Trust seal holder:

    Hi Anthony,

    Thank you for your email, unfortunately the dispute mediation service is for players only, we do not handle affiliate dispute as this is business arrangement with the affiliate.

    Regards,
    Tex


    I did reply to this message asking them what good is issuing an "Affiliate Trust" seal if there are no protocols in place to deal with issues or even verify a seal holder is acting in a reputable manner. They did not reply...

    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
    Apply for Private Membership | Apply for the GPWA Seal | Partner with a GPWA Sponsor | Volunteer as a Moderator


  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Anthony For This Useful Post:

    eenzoo (15 September 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  31. #16
    Muppet is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Posts
    575
    Thanks
    165
    Thanked 659 Times in 289 Posts

    Default

    eCOGRA has determined through annual onsite reviews and ongoing monitoring that the following affiliate programmes are eligible to display the Affiliate Trust seal:

    AffClub, BrightShare, bwin.party Partners, Fortune Affiliates, Party Affiliates, Star Partner



    While eCOGRA does its utmost to ensure compliance with its principles, it cannot offer 100% assurance that the affiliate program is at all times in accordance with the eCOGRA requirements. Therefore eCOGRA cannot assume responsibility for the consequences resulting from the use of any affiliate program bearing the eCOGRA Affiliate Trust seal. eCOGRA is not liable to any person or group of persons, firm, company or entity for losses of any description that a user of accredited program may suffer. Accredited programs are subject to regular monitoring of their operation.
    So apart from being almost a who's who of recent rogue and/or useless affiliate programs, the seal is meaningless as they don't detail what the requirements to get one are (I suspect the answer to that begins with a $ sign), they don't provide any proof of these "annual reviews" or "regular monitoring" and what exactly they check for, they don't provide any mediation service, and they disclaim any responsibility or liability for anything the programs with the seal do.

    Its nothing but a useless marketing exercise. For the sake of its own credibility eCOGRA would be better served to end the charade.

  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Muppet For This Useful Post:

    Anthony (16 September 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  33. #17
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    November 2012
    Posts
    3,062
    Thanks
    12,206
    Thanked 3,162 Times in 1,695 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    So apart from being almost a who's who of recent rogue and/or useless affiliate programs, the seal is meaningless as they don't detail what the requirements to get one are (I suspect the answer to that begins with a $ sign), they don't provide any proof of these "annual reviews" or "regular monitoring" and what exactly they check for, they don't provide any mediation service, and they disclaim any responsibility or liability for anything the programs with the seal do.

    Its nothing but a useless marketing exercise. For the sake of its own credibility eCOGRA would be better served to end the charade.
    Most of these "seals" are bought and paid for and a joke at best.

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to -Shay- For This Useful Post:

    Muppet (16 September 2016), Roulette Zeitung (16 September 2016)

  35. #18
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,446
    Blog Entries
    5
    Thanks
    6,015
    Thanked 6,898 Times in 3,000 Posts

    Default

    "Most of these "seals" are bought and paid for and a joke at best."

    Yes, and eCogra was so stupid that they unmasked themselves.

    In Spring 2011 the ownership of eCogra changed and by Freudian Slip they admitted, that they wasn't independent:

    From an eCogra press release:

    "In future the new ownership structure of eCOGRA would not include software or other service providers or operators enabling it to be truly independent in the discharge of its audit, advisory, compliance and seal awarding activities."
    "In future [...] enabling it to be truly independent"

    Leopold

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Roulette Zeitung For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (16 September 2016), Muppet (16 September 2016)

  37. #19
    Anthony's Avatar
    Anthony is offline Affiliate Services
    Join Date
    June 2003
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    7,030
    Blog Entries
    67
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 3,317 Times in 1,739 Posts

    Default

    eCOGRA contacted us and said they stopped working with Brightshare in 2014. They have updated their site to reflect their current "Affiliate Trust" sites.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
    Apply for Private Membership | Apply for the GPWA Seal | Partner with a GPWA Sponsor | Volunteer as a Moderator


  38. The Following User Says Thank You to Anthony For This Useful Post:

    Muppet (20 September 2016)

  39. #20
    Muppet is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Posts
    575
    Thanks
    165
    Thanked 659 Times in 289 Posts

    Default

    Now the only ones left on the "affiliate trust" page are Bwin/Party. And we all know how trustworthy they are!

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Muppet For This Useful Post:

    Anthony (20 September 2016), TheGooner (20 September 2016)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •