Panama Papers expose Calvin Ayre

[The Buzz]

This is a wild story by NBC News about Calvin Ayre, as it seems the Panama Papers have revealed much about how the gambling tycoon has been living these past few years.

Check it out: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pan...n-ayre-n570576

[Sherlock]

That is why will be paid by bitcoin by Ayrebet. The guy is amazing.
For everyone who is saying we are just honest affiliates, it is a legal business... it is bullshit. Everyone who is promoting gambling in the US is the same criminal and moneylaunderer for them. We are just lucky so far, that we are too small.

I hope the gamble on bitcoin will succeed, just because I want to see the fun with impotent USA.

[TheGooner]

You lose your grip on reality Sherlock once you start a good rant.


There is a world of difference from running a betting operation (be it sports / casino / poker ) and running an affiliate marketing agency ...
Affiliates are NOT taking bets from and making payments to retail customers as part of business ...

So any discussion of illegal gambling operations or money laundering are obviously bogus.

[Sherlock]

That is exactly what you are not getting. The funny US regulation put us even with running a bookie. The same approach now is in Romania... I have to apply for a licence. If not I am a moneylaunderer. You live in an oldschool dream. Suddenly, with all the terrorist bullshit, world changed.

I insist they did not go after us hard only because there are bigger fishes (and partly because they do not realize that some affiliates make more than decent bookies).

But in my original country, where online gambling is banned as well (but all major operators still work), police already goes after me because of one small betting forum they do not like. My hosting is telling me about every visit and officers are sending me funny emails.

Or what about that old case? The owners of Serbian betting sites kladionicar.com and freebetting.net – Djordje Djokić and Dušan Jagličić – were arrested last week for “organizing illegal bookmaking and money laundering”. It is just getting darker. I feel it. That same feeling caused my bet on bitcoin.

Welcome to the club of criminals and moneylaunderers. Afer you start using Bitcoin, you will just prove the fact you are a moneylaunderer.

[sweetbet]

If there was a case against affiliates promoting online gambling sites, then the NJ DGE would've taken legal action against affiliates who continued promoting "unregulated gambling sites" after the 150 day deadline expired.

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/nj-dge-al...es-222918.html

[Juan Roman]

Or what about that old case? The owners of Serbian betting sites kladionicar.com and freebetting.net – Djordje Djokić and Dušan Jagličić – were arrested last week for “organizing illegal bookmaking and money laundering”. It is just getting darker. I feel it. That same feeling caused my bet on bitcoin.

Funny you should mention that case, because I was working for the guys at the time on those exact sites. We were even called as witnesses during the process of the trial.

It was shocking to see how the authorities ruined their lives without proof of any wrongdoing, even if they were ultimately acquitted five years later. But, having spent almost a year in prison and missed seeing their baby boys grow up, that was little comfort in the end.

[justbookies]

Gooner states it as it logically ought to be, while Sherlock states it as it illogically is. @sweetbet, they might.

[Syndicate]

Who's to say it won't come? It only takes one DA to start the party!! - I guess they would go after the long established big affiliates first, because the small fry wouldn't get more than a slap on the wrist!!

If there was a case against affiliates promoting online gambling sites, then the NJ DGE would've taken legal action against affiliates who continued promoting "unregulated gambling sites" after the 150 day deadline expired.

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/nj-dge-al...es-222918.html

[Syndicate]

Not sure i agree with you there - because has an affiliate you share the proceeds.

Just don't visit the US on holiday!!

You lose your grip on reality Sherlock once you start a good rant.


There is a world of difference from running a betting operation (be it sports / casino / poker ) and running an affiliate marketing agency ...
Affiliates are NOT taking bets from and making payments to retail customers as part of business ...

So any discussion of illegal gambling operations or money laundering are obviously bogus.

[slotplayer]

If you're a us affiliate stay away from promoting sports and poker, stick with the slots and bingo.

[Triple7]

You lose your grip on reality Sherlock once you start a good rant.


There is a world of difference from running a betting operation (be it sports / casino / poker ) and running an affiliate marketing agency ...
Affiliates are NOT taking bets from and making payments to retail customers as part of business ...

So any discussion of illegal gambling operations or money laundering are obviously bogus.

In some jurisdictions - I cannot say anything about US as I don't know the laws there - it's both illegal to running an illegal betting operation and promoting that illegal betting operation.

And ofc they got all their priorities. They'll put more effort in the illegal betting operation that has millions of revenues than in an affiliate promoting illegal gambling sites and making a bit of money.

[hublot]

In some jurisdictions - I cannot say anything about US as I don't know the laws there - it's both illegal to running an illegal betting operation and promoting that illegal betting operation.

And ofc they got all their priorities. They'll put more effort in the illegal betting operation that has millions of revenues than in an affiliate promoting illegal gambling sites and making a bit of money.

This.... to think they would never look at affiliates is VERY naive.... Just because they haven't gone after affiliates doesn't mean they won't in the future, probably going for lowest hanging fruit and what will reap them the most seizure wise....but don't think they would never turn their eyes to those promoting the websites...

[Celebrationbird]

http://calvinayre.com/online-gaming-directory/forum/

Lolol GPWA is not evern featured!

[Sherlock]

Gooner states it as it logically ought to be, while Sherlock states it as it illogically is. @sweetbet, they might.

Yes well said. Things starting to make no sense. It is good to realize that. Of course I am tempted to think that even I am seeing the things a little bit too harsh. But now there is the master of moving money between offshore accounts, Mr. Ayre, and even him just gave up (and moved to bitcoin). Sometimes even the most radical thoughts are not enough radical. We all live with the mindset of Fukuyama's "End of history" = we think everything is set up, the capitalism will just go on with some final tuning (and we will forever cash from our traffic surviving all pandas and penguins and state regulations).

We live in an illusion of stability, because we lived during the stable past (or we rather interpret last 10-20 years as stable or at least predictable or normal). I am not saying that this illogical reality is bad. It is an opportunity (it is just not clear where the opportunity is).

[Sherlock]

I agree with Hublot, Syndicate.

If US ever goes after affiliates, they will follow the pattern they always do with criminals or alledged criminals. Like the war on drugs started with Tim Leary. With a symbol. Calvin Ayre is the same symbol btw. So if they decide to do something against affiliates they will go after such a symbol to spread threat. But the target must be also soft. The softest target is the one that is the one that believes that nothing bad can happen.

I am not saying that only panic is an option. But certainly the approach "I did nothing wrong, therefore nothing bad can happen to me" is crazy as well. I see this approach by people who were born and lived in the west. They belive in state, in law, in justice. It is nice, because it somehow makes the society smooth. But it is an illusion. Society is not, never was and never will be about law, justice or rewarding the good citizens and punishing the bad ones. It is and was always about power (and money) even in the democracies.

Namely US can play this game with democracy on one side and using the power to supress people they do not like on the other side. Even after few years I am shocked how the bankers around the world are shitting into pants when it is about USA. One of my Swiss bankers said that he must avoid US soild as well, because sometimes in the past he did some accounts for Americans. Yes, he is 55 yrs old guy with nice car, family and helicopter, living happy life as a good citizen in a mountain walley. He pays taxes, he gives money to charity. Always distinct and professional. But he is scared, because he sees what is going on. US pwns world banking now. They got it cheap, just a nasty pressure against UBS and independent banking system started to fell like a house of cards. I do not like conspiracies, but I believe Panama leaks were more or less prepared with US help as next step.

Logically it ought to be that US law is valid only for USA, but illogically it is that US law is a law of the world.

[Sherlock]

It is our pleasure to inform you that Café Casino is launching a new promotion to further support the use of Bitcoin. Players will receive a $100 Free Chip when they make their first Bitcoin deposit.

This offer will run from May 13 through July 31, 2016

Thumbs up. I think Ayre jumped into bitcoin right at the time as he jumped into online gambling. Those extra promotions are very important if players have to start with btc.

[pinkytoe]

Can someone point to a law forbidding the promotion of US sites?

I'm not expert in the field but don't you have to be charged with breaking a law?

[TheGooner]

When I see stories about ESPN and the major daily US newpapers in the dock for their multi-million dollar advertising receipts for the blanket promotion of the Daily Fantasy Sports sites then I'll think that there is a possible case.

Currently, I don't see any logic behind the statement that affiliate advertising and marketing is NOT legal within the US and/or that it's responsible for any of the activities of the advertised service. IMO it's just an attempt to troll a thread with inaccurate statements to make a splash.

There ARE countries that ban advertising of gambling - indeed my country of NEW ZEALAND makes it illegal to specifically target New Zealanders with offers of overseas gambling sites. But that enforcement is restricted to local media (TV, Radio, Newspapers) that are distributed / broadcast locally. The internet is accessible globally and is not currently within range of that legislation.

[Sherlock]

There is not even a law forbidding the gambling itself I believe. It is about money transfers.

If some state feels you are part of the mafia, because you help them, you receive money from them etc., then you are in trouble. It does not matter that much bigger mafia probably runs some kind of regulated gambling within the country.

There are also many other soft restrictive measures, where states rather express their will with outsourcing the dirty work on private institutions. E.g. now it is not (just) the officers from departmenst of finance who go after the financial transactions, it is the banks. It is harder and harder nowadays to opan just simple bank account, even when I come with the money. (In fact now I am weird because I want an account and I have money and I do not want a credit.) So this is why we have to be paid via bitcoin now. US got into situation where they could not solve many things, so they first bend banks around the world. The banks do not want to receive money for clients, because interest rates are low or negative, so they are losing money and the banks do not want to receive money also, because it is costly for them to do AML procedures. So we have a problem to move money around.

I am just saying it that the pressure of the state on people should be done by law. The law should be the borders between what is allowed and what is not. That is the logical thing how it should be. How it is is that state is using many other kinds of power than law.

And every year now the states choose the other methods how to use power than law even in the first world. One good example are so called pirate sites, where for example in the UK there is a specialised police unit called PIPCU, that creates secret Infringing websites list (IWL). They can not ban the websites, but they send emails and letter to ISP's, webhostings, advertisers and domain registrars associated with IWL, that they do not like some website and the website is doing this and that in a wrong way. Most IT companies, even from other countries than UK, just **** in their pants. Even when they are in different jurisdiction. Even when police has no right to determine who can do what. So this is how the power and will in digital economy works.

[Triple7]

When I see stories about ESPN and the major daily US newpapers in the dock for their multi-million dollar advertising receipts for the blanket promotion of the Daily Fantasy Sports sites then I'll think that there is a possible case.

Currently, I don't see any logic behind the statement that affiliate advertising and marketing is NOT legal within the US and/or that it's responsible for any of the activities of the advertised service. IMO it's just an attempt to troll a thread with inaccurate statements to make a splash.

There ARE countries that ban advertising of gambling - indeed my country of NEW ZEALAND makes it illegal to specifically target New Zealanders with offers of overseas gambling sites. But that enforcement is restricted to local media (TV, Radio, Newspapers) that are distributed / broadcast locally. The internet is accessible globally and is not currently within range of that legislation.

I don't know about US, but here it's illegal to promote illegal gambling sites and it's like that in more European countries. Typically these countries have legalized online gambling and have licensed some gambling sites. You're allowed to just promote that websites. Also, what sense would it make to have a license system if everybody is allowed to promote illegal gambling sites. The idea behind regulation is to ban illegal websites from the market and canalize players into legal gambling sites.

If I am not wrong in the past the Dutch Gambling Commission have sent warning letters to affiliates targetting the Dutch market with a .nl-website.