Czech better fined $42k for playing in a foreign online sportsbook

[Azureus]

This was published today:
http://www.mfcr.cz/cs/aktualne/tisko...vatelu-p-17800

A player (!) was supposedly fined over $42000 for betting in a foreign sportsbook. This is quite a big fine, about 30 times the average monthly salary in the country.

The local laws are very problematic, officially it is illegal to operate, promote and even PLAY IN a sportsbook/casino that does not have a Czech business licence and does not have a "real" brick-and-mortar branch in the country. Of course this is the result of lobbying of local companies like Fortuna, Sazka and Tipsport.

But noone has been fined for this yet. I can't confirm if the message is true or not. It was published on the Czech Ministry of Finance website so it is not a fake. It is still a possibility that the ministry is trying to discourage people by publishing a half-truth or a made-up message...

The decision is still not final but this would be a precedens and mean many things. First of all, this is in direct contradiction with the EU laws (free movement of services and goods). Basically any EU-member country CAN NOT block companies from other member states (such as Malta, Cyprus, UK and Gibraltar) from providing services to local customers.

And EU laws are superior to local country-specific laws. I don't have legal education but I find this very disturbing.

What do you think? Similar stupid laws are in France, Bulgaria, Estonia and other countries where again local lobby groups have forced their interests into the law.

[LottoRevenues.com]

That's pretty outrageous, I know personally of a few European casino owners that can't enter the USA
for the same reasons..

[ocreditor]

I think its a shame... ...

[pinkytoe]

That's pretty outrageous, I know personally of a few European casino owners that can't enter the USA
for the same reasons..

Why can't they enter the US? Are or were they accepting US traffic?

[TheGooner]

This was published today:
A player (!) was supposedly fined over $42000 for betting in a foreign sportsbook. This is quite a big fine, about 30 times the average monthly salary in the country.

...

The decision is still not final but this would be a precedens and mean many things. First of all, this is in direct contradiction with the EU laws (free movement of services and goods). Basically any EU-member country CAN NOT block companies from other member states (such as Malta, Cyprus, UK and Gibraltar) from providing services to local customers.

And EU laws are superior to local country-specific laws. I don't have legal education but I find this very disturbing.

What do you think? Similar stupid laws are in France, Bulgaria, Estonia and other countries where again local lobby groups have forced their interests into the law.

I think that you are correct - it's technically illegal according to EU law (unless gambling is banned completely in a country) - but that the EU is finding ways to ignore pushing the point and is allowing member countries to set-up domestic laws.

France and Germany both have specific domestic protectionist policy on this now - and the EU will fall into line with these powerful members.

Thanks for posting this information.

[ocreditor]

Dictatorship under the cover of democracy !

[Casino Online Rating]

UE forced Italy to change their gambling laws and as far as I know they try to encourage other countries to regulate online gambling too (in March 2011 the European Commission launched the Green Paper on online gaming).

[TheGooner]

UE forced Italy to change their gambling laws and as far as I know they try to encourage other countries to regulate online gambling too (in March 2011 the European Commission launched the Green Paper on online gaming).

That was three years ago - and counting ....

[Casino Online Rating]

That was three years ago - and counting ....

yep, but I still believe things will finally get better in Europe

[DanHorvat]

While we're at it:

Promoting online operators without a domestic licence is explicitly outlawed in Croatia (but betting isn't). Still, there wasn't a single case where this law was applied and there are foreign operator ads on sporting events, and even on team shirts. The licence costs a lot, and whoever would get it would have to tax all money wagered with 5%, and tax the winnings over 100 € with a progressive tax ranging from 10 to 30% (the latter tax was introduced on April 1st this year but is no joke). The 5% tax on wagers, surprisingly, applies to sports betting only.

A foreign company can't apply for a gaming licence. A foreign company could open a domestic company though. Also, the brick&mortar and online licences are separate, and you need special approval for the online one. A thing to note is that the online services of the state-owned bookmaker close at 23:00, perhaps best illustrating all of the above.

In Bosnia there was a government decision - last year I think - to ban foreign online bookies, and the ISPs were ordered to ban access to gaming sites from Bosnia and Herzegovina. The decision fell the next day because of the protests and now the situation is back to the thing being illegal but the law is not enforced.

In Serbia I know of a case where a big affiliate was prosecuted in a widely publicised trial, several years ago, and as far as I know he unsuccessfully tried to prove he isn't accepting bets himself.

So I'm hoping the EU won't take the easy way out and officially allow each country to decide for themselves, otherwise in many countries we'll be stuck with a monopoly of domestic companies. Fortunately, there is very little understanding about online payments in general, and online betting and online wallets are rocket science to the politicians, and that's what's saving us. When they do turn towards "resolving" this situation though, we can expect a stupid decision, something like what Bosnia tried to do.

The laws of all three countries are against the general EU laws about monopoly. Countries are not allowed to ban foreign companies from operating on their territory. Licensing yes, but discrimination and bans have no place in the EU.

[ocreditor]

While we're at it:

Promoting online operators without a domestic licence is explicitly outlawed in Croatia (but betting isn't). Still, there wasn't a single case where this law was applied and there are foreign operator ads on sporting events, and even on team shirts. The licence costs a lot, and whoever would get it would have to tax all money wagered with 5%, and tax the winnings over 100 € with a progressive tax ranging from 10 to 30% (the latter tax was introduced on April 1st this year but is no joke). The 5% tax on wagers, surprisingly, applies to sports betting only.
.....

Any chance you know where I can find online casinos list with domestic license in Croatia ?

[DanHorvat]

I'd be surprised if there are any. But I'm in sports betting so I don't know for sure.

[Sherlock]

The Czech guy is a professional bettor and ironically a bookie at one national bettingshop, that was lobbying for this stupid law. He took down much more money in more installments, than the 42K. Was tipped by bank, because was stupid and did withdraw directly. On the top of that he said to authorities the money came from gambling

Now he will go to court and win it for sure, but it will take time.

[ocreditor]

...
Now he will go to court and win it for sure, but it will take time.

What makes you think he'll win for sure ??

[Sherlock]

Well there are many pitfals for the law. It was always in place and not enforced, because it is obvious, how stupid it is. The guy who used it is a populist billionaire - Andrej Babis - who bought a lot of media in Berlusconi style and is doing a politics full of such gests. But here he went too far. He had many crazy ideas about monetary politics as well, but there he was stopped. He is known as a "shooter" in business.

The EU has still unified market. You can not go after consumers. Consumers simply have no clue if this or that goods is legal or not, especally not if the goods/services are from EU. This was from UK bookie. If the Czech court will not say the law is invalid, the European court simply must.

There is a difference if you go after business - yes it is stupid within one market, but ok - and if you go after end users. The problem here is, that it will take too long. I think Andrej Babis maybe knows it and then it is a wise decision from him, because for the few years people will turn to local betting shops. It is public secret that the local betting shops "own" the lottery department at the Ministry of Finance. They all all bribed there. If people turn for local bookies, then some little money will be collected by state (taxes on gambling are not high, because the local bookies own the Ministry) but the more money will stay in Czech economy and that is the interest here.

Btw. I do not think it will have some big effect. People will still bet abroad. Actually common people are very upset and it brought to the politician minus points. In the consumerist culture it is not good to say voters where they should spend their money.

[ocreditor]

Some very convincing points you gave here !

Btw. I do not think it will have some big effect. People will still bet abroad. Actually common people are very upset and it brought to the politician minus points. In the consumerist culture it is not good to say voters where they should spend their money.

Indeed

[truth seeker]

This was published today:


A player (!) was supposedly fined over $42000 for betting in a foreign sportsbook. This is quite a big fine, about 30 times the average monthly salary in the country.

The local laws are very problematic, officially it is illegal to operate, promote and even PLAY IN a sportsbook/casino that does not have a Czech business licence and does not have a "real" brick-and-mortar branch in the country. Of course this is the result of lobbying of local companies like Fortuna, Sazka and Tipsport.

But noone has been fined for this yet. I can't confirm if the message is true or not. It was published on the Czech Ministry of Finance website so it is not a fake. It is still a possibility that the ministry is trying to discourage people by publishing a half-truth or a made-up message...

The decision is still not final but this would be a precedens and mean many things. First of all, this is in direct contradiction with the EU laws (free movement of services and goods). Basically any EU-member country CAN NOT block companies from other member states (such as Malta, Cyprus, UK and Gibraltar) from providing services to local customers.

And EU laws are superior to local country-specific laws. I don't have legal education but I find this very disturbing.

What do you think? Similar stupid laws are in France, Bulgaria, Estonia and other countries where again local lobby groups have forced their interests into the law.

AN IMPORTANT UPDATE !!!

Hi, the Czech bettor who was fined in 2014, was successful in the end.

According to my information (got it last week), they returned back all penalties he had to pay, after he appealed at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. I was searching in the library, but have found nothing. It seems, they made an agreement before the final decision, or even on the beginning ...

Sorry for my English, but I hope you have understood. I can try to reach some more information about this, but I am not sure if I can be successful. If the guy made an agreement with them, maybe he has no interest to report about this in a media. As I remember, the story about the penalty were brought by all main Czech televisions in May 2014.
I only wish if they report now about the result - but I am afraid this is not in their "scenario", not their intention.

[Sherlock]

It is weird... but normal on the other hand, that nobody is informing about this outcome. What else should be expected from de facto leader of Czech republic, who is former agent of communist secret police and who owns the most important media? The fine or the outcome of the court is not important. The important is that average bettors now think that online betting can bring them serious troubles.

[MrBinaryAff]

This situation is very weird, but the guy is stupid enough to withdraw his winnings into bank account. He at least needs to pay taxes from that, or I am wrong?

Also, never heard of any other prosecutions of such case, because usually if the website is not blocked by provider, how do you know if you can bet or if bookmaker has a licence of your country?

[Sherlock]

Yes, you are wrong. Czechs do not pay taxes from winnings even abroad (for sure not if inside EU and I think this was EU bookie). [It is an ancient law that the biggest gambling company lobbed, because they wanted to have high net wins from lotteries and back in time there was no competition from abroad]. From what I know he withdrew money to bank, it went smooth. But then he set up some insurance or deposit at AXA insurance company and this company reported it. Then they asked him where the money is from and the idiot said: it is from gambling.

Also, never heard of any other prosecutions of such case, because usually if the website is not blocked by provider, how do you know if you can bet or if bookmaker has a licence of your country?

Do not try to use logic. Laws are just something irrelevant on the surface. It is a nice fairytale to keep John Does silent with illusion of justice and that world has some sense. In fact everything is only about power. There are maybe politicians that do not stretch it that much. But Andrej Babis is KGB style powerplay piece of ****. He is is very good at it. His motto is to rule the country as an company and he is the CEO (he is also 2nd richest Czech citizen). So law does not make much sense. Plus even before him there was very strong lobby of local gambling companies at dpt of finance. Even one former secretary of finance openly said that he can not trust his subordinates, because they are all paid by the local gambling companies.