Is this FISHY or what?

[mike76]

Hi,

I would like to address a certain situation that I have with one affiliate program. They have one brand that I do well with and another that seems to be a nightmare and I just cant wake up - even if I have challenged them to look into it. So here goes the story - let me know your opinion on it - thank you!

I started to promote this brand in Feb. 2008 and they were doing ok, consistantly approving until they changed their affiliate backend. Now below I have summarised the numbers from before and after the "switch".

2-10/2008
customer total: 312
deposit total: 134 421€
net result: 73 732€

11/08 - 8/09
customer total: 349
deposit total: 162 191€
net result: -2 999€

Yes, you read it right.. 162k depo's and negative 3k net results.

So dear fellow marketers - can you seriously think these numbers are true? There has been a couple of bigger winners, but nothing that would explain these kind of figures and this all started when the backend changed - true, false, bogus, shaving, mach3 or truly a freak of nature and business as usual - what do you think?

Personally, I already addressed this issue way back when it started to go sour and "believed" their explenations that nothing was missing and all is fine, but now after waiting many many months - nothing has changed for the better and I am thinking of dropping not only this bad apple, but also their other brand which has been very good for us. So before I do, have your say please.

[TheGooner]

Not enough data to really decide.

With 300 players you should be seeing some stability of numbers, but one whale winning or losing can still dent the bottom line.

I have an account with around 500 actives each month with a very good quality UK site - and I've still seen signiificant variations of tens of thousands of pounds - depending on how the big guys go.

Do you get anything more detailed than that?
Gross profit?
Charges like Bonuses? Credits? Bankng fees?
Net Profit?
Player by player data?
How many players are active on a monthly basis?
Are the losses consistant month after month - or did you have one losing month?

Oh - and who is the program?


The more you share - then the more we can say whether the trends look dodgy - or just unlucky.

[mike76]

Ok, here's more details:

before backend update

2/08 result 63.32 comission 28.49
3/08 result 869.47 comission 391.26
4/08 result 6651.81 comission 2993.32
5/08 result 4463.38 comission 2008.52
6/08 result 1603.31 comission 721.49
7/08 result 7643.51 comission 3439.58
8/08 result 14229.24 comission 6403.16
9/08 result 10326.95 comission 4647.13
10/08 result 27885.47 comission 12548.46

after the update

11/08 result 2,714.12 comission 1,221.35
12/08 result -2,005.01 comission -902.25
1/09 result 2,337.46 comission 1,051.86
2/09 result 1,916.70 comission 862.52
3/09 result -8,318.11 comission -3,743.15
4/09 result 5,144.05 comission 2,314.82
5/09 result 4,231.06 comission 1,903.98
6/09 result -4,444.01 comission -1,999.80
7/09 result -459.13 comission -206.61
8/09 result -2,444.27 comission -1,099.92


What causes me the most concern is that ever since the affiliate backend changed we have not made any decend month in comission since for each and every month there seems to be 1-3 days where the comission is flatten out by winners. I can understand one or two months of going negative and really not doing the results expected, but when you average an 18k per month in deposits and 143 new depositing players(not to mention the pre-existing database), I do say I'd expect a little bit different results.

If there weren't negative carryover policy in place I would have made nothing from 143 new depositing players plus the old database(prob about the same size) and 163k of deposits. Thanks to the no carryover policy we have actually made a WHOPPING 50€ per player - maybe I should think about doing CPA - huh?


So there you have it - Fishy or Not?

..and since you asked - the brand in question is Betsson.

[TheGooner]

..and since you asked - the brand in question is Betsson.

Hah! I know Betsson well - I've got them on my site too.
That's helpful because since you've shared - I can share as well


We've worked with betsson for a while too (since May 2007) as one of our multi-lingual options for punters who prefer to use a site in their own language rather than English. Our business at Betsson is smaller than yours with €44K deposits from 78 new players since the move in NOvember 2008 - they are not a major player for us.

When they moved in November 2008 - We have seen similar downward profits - but not exactly the same. We did not notice an immediate drop - indeed until January 2009 were we pretty stable - earning between €1K to €2K commission each month.

We have found it harder since January - with just €3.5K total in the first seven months.

However, I have put this down to Betsson's increased bonus offers, as they are now targetting a dozen European countries with specialised offers, and as I understand it these bonuses paid to players come off profits and therefore off our bottom line.

We do promote the bonuses, and that will make us suspectable to bonus "whoring" from players who deposit, claim the bonus, do minimum rollover and then leave.

I have found that in months where we successfully attracted a lot of new players - the bonuses paid out seemed to heavily hit the bottom line profits. IN months where new players were less - we did better.

This month bonuses to greek and spanish players were stopped - and this month I see profits.

So do I find it suspicious? Fishy?
Not yet - but it is bloody annoying!

[mike76]

In my opinion and in our case I do think it's not the case of bonuses overriding comissions as we have not been pushing for bonuses anymore then in the past and quite frankly 98% of our traffic comes from one single market, so that just doesn't apply in our case.

If indeed Betsson were stupid enough to kill their business with stupid bonuses offered to existing customers - then they sure do not deserve the time of day, but if look at their actual results as a company they are experiencing huge growth and making the best revenues ever, so clearly they are not that stupid.

If I look at the stats it's clearly visible that there was a huge drop in the daily revenues when the program changed. It looks pretty much like our playerbase was starting again from scratch and that was the first time I raised this issue with them. Now it's been clearly building back, but still we get hit by one or two days in a month that pretty much level the income to nothing.

So two distinct issues come up from the stats:

1. Daily revenues clearly dropped after switching to the new backend

2. Since the switch we have experienced a lot more winners which level the comissions to zero.


In case you or someone is intrested enough to parse through the daily numbers, here's the daily values from 11/08 till this date. If I find the day by day values from the old times - I will be adding them here later if needed.

2008-11-01 0 0 0 1 140.90 52.35 45% 23.56
2008-11-02 0 0 2 2 122.70 76.51 45% 34.43
2008-11-03 0 0 0 0 295.51 -145.30 45% -65.39
2008-11-04 0 0 1 0 367.10 133.06 45% 59.88
2008-11-05 0 0 0 0 596.58 300.79 45% 135.36
2008-11-06 0 0 2 0 102.04 16.69 45% 7.51
2008-11-07 0 0 2 0 204.38 84.54 45% 38.04
2008-11-08 0 0 2 0 143.73 -38.87 45% -17.49
2008-11-09 0 0 0 0 406.56 69.90 45% 31.46
2008-11-10 0 0 0 0 61.36 39.20 45% 17.64
2008-11-11 0 0 6 0 560.10 210.15 45% 94.57
2008-11-12 0 0 0 0 125.09 11.33 45% 5.10
2008-11-13 0 0 3 0 532.39 120.16 45% 54.07
2008-11-14 0 0 0 0 423.52 221.39 45% 99.63
2008-11-15 0 0 0 0 68.51 12.21 45% 5.49
2008-11-16 0 0 5 0 181.36 73.34 45% 33.00
2008-11-17 0 0 3 0 163.62 29.25 45% 13.16
2008-11-18 0 0 1 0 210.64 94.07 45% 42.33
2008-11-19 0 0 4 1 512.07 207.72 45% 93.47
2008-11-20 0 0 1 1 480.17 170.42 45% 76.69
2008-11-21 0 0 0 0 221.48 126.08 45% 56.74
2008-11-22 0 0 3 1 527.21 118.04 45% 53.12
2008-11-23 0 0 1 1 13.80 0.19 45% 0.09
2008-11-24 0 0 2 0 159.51 103.23 45% 46.45
2008-11-25 0 0 2 0 111.25 157.64 45% 70.94
2008-11-26 0 0 3 2 475.47 37.25 45% 16.76
2008-11-27 0 0 0 0 303.70 272.87 45% 122.79
2008-11-28 0 0 2 0 103.28 32.81 45% 14.76
2008-11-29 0 0 0 0 41.93 14.57 45% 6.56
2008-11-30 0 0 0 0 251.13 112.53 45% 50.64
2008-12-01 0 0 2 2 183.91 94.03 45% 42.31
2008-12-02 0 0 4 1 901.49 338.07 45% 152.13
2008-12-03 0 0 4 1 614.46 348.71 45% 156.92
2008-12-04 11 4 4 2 1,530.66 -723.20 45% -325.44
2008-12-05 0 2 0 0 64.42 -5,045.68 45% -2,270.56
2008-12-06 0 1 1 0 51.13 20.11 45% 9.05
2008-12-07 0 0 1 1 418.24 114.95 45% 51.73
2008-12-08 0 0 2 0 0.00 5.67 45% 2.55
2008-12-09 0 1 0 0 460.15 260.04 45% 117.02
2008-12-10 0 1 0 1 151.34 59.70 45% 26.87
2008-12-11 0 0 2 0 232.10 -5.90 45% -2.66
2008-12-12 0 0 2 0 547.14 87.48 45% 39.37
2008-12-13 0 0 2 2 310.86 216.48 45% 97.42
2008-12-14 0 0 2 0 0.00 6.85 45% 3.08
2008-12-15 0 1 1 0 53.17 30.60 45% 13.77
2008-12-16 0 0 0 1 671.99 332.41 45% 149.58
2008-12-17 0 0 5 3 2,367.89 1,259.51 45% 566.78
2008-12-18 0 1 1 0 387.54 162.83 45% 73.27
2008-12-19 0 3 0 0 1,696.71 445.51 45% 200.48
2008-12-20 0 1 1 0 0.00 174.30 45% 78.44
2008-12-21 0 0 3 0 20.46 12.22 45% 5.50
2008-12-22 0 0 0 0 95.10 48.31 45% 21.74
2008-12-23 0 0 2 1 257.69 43.56 45% 19.60
2008-12-24 0 1 1 1 15.34 6.47 45% 2.91
2008-12-25 0 1 4 0 178.93 62.14 45% 27.96
2008-12-26 0 0 0 0 72.50 21.88 45% 9.85
2008-12-27 0 0 0 0 41.94 -230.68 45% -103.81
2008-12-28 0 3 1 0 153.39 63.89 45% 28.75
2008-12-29 0 0 1 0 72.50 -170.26 45% -76.62
2008-12-30 0 3 2 1 143.74 42.31 45% 19.04
2008-12-31 0 1 2 0 42.50 -87.32 45% -39.29
2009-01-01 0 1 1 1 1,041.67 502.21 45% 225.99
2009-01-02 0 0 0 1 409.66 161.78 45% 72.80
2009-01-03 0 1 0 0 0.00 13.68 45% 6.16
2009-01-04 0 1 5 3 149.96 64.59 45% 29.07
2009-01-05 0 0 1 0 285.10 47.98 45% 21.59
2009-01-06 0 2 3 0 570.51 56.27 45% 25.32
2009-01-07 0 1 2 0 376.09 68.93 45% 31.02
2009-01-08 0 2 1 0 71.58 50.78 45% 22.85
2009-01-09 0 2 2 0 235.19 46.83 45% 21.07
2009-01-10 0 0 0 1 237.23 -207.00 45% -93.15
2009-01-11 0 0 1 1 97.15 96.41 45% 43.38
2009-01-12 0 2 1 0 76.69 366.52 45% 164.93
2009-01-13 0 1 2 0 51.13 46.11 45% 20.75
2009-01-14 0 0 0 0 221.90 115.73 45% 52.08
2009-01-15 0 3 6 4 320.08 158.54 45% 71.34
2009-01-16 0 0 1 0 214.45 105.30 45% 47.39
2009-01-17 0 0 0 0 10.00 -20.31 45% -9.14
2009-01-18 0 2 0 0 35.79 47.62 45% 21.43
2009-01-19 0 2 3 1 181.00 80.16 45% 36.07
2009-01-20 0 1 1 1 666.97 -46.85 45% -21.08
2009-01-21 0 1 4 1 254.61 120.48 45% 54.22
2009-01-22 0 1 1 1 534.58 133.51 45% 60.08
2009-01-23 0 0 2 0 375.28 178.58 45% 80.36
2009-01-24 0 1 0 0 224.96 56.33 45% 25.35
2009-01-25 0 0 1 1 98.23 27.19 45% 12.24
2009-01-26 0 0 6 0 158.50 -48.09 45% -21.64
2009-01-27 0 0 2 0 176.58 61.31 45% 27.59
2009-01-28 0 0 1 0 23.29 18.65 45% 8.39
2009-01-29 0 2 1 0 35.79 10.68 45% 4.81
2009-01-30 0 0 0 0 51.13 4.25 45% 1.91
2009-01-31 0 1 1 0 42.96 19.29 45% 8.68
2009-02-01 0 2 1 1 109.57 4.84 45% 2.18
2009-02-02 0 1 3 2 806.13 399.87 45% 179.94
2009-02-03 0 3 2 1 312.89 151.93 45% 68.37
2009-02-04 0 0 0 0 71.58 -761.85 45% -342.83
2009-02-05 145 3 0 0 96.40 5.65 45% 2.54
2009-02-06 174 1 3 2 639.63 286.91 45% 129.11
2009-02-07 158 3 1 1 20.46 -86.53 45% -38.94
2009-02-08 165 2 1 0 0.00 -27.66 45% -12.45
2009-02-09 154 0 2 1 739.28 392.87 45% 176.79
2009-02-10 240 0 4 1 244.38 203.24 45% 91.46
2009-02-11 239 0 1 0 283.24 36.62 45% 16.48
2009-02-12 144 1 1 2 47.73 61.56 45% 27.70
2009-02-13 117 0 6 0 98.97 72.63 45% 32.68
2009-02-14 85 1 1 0 19.43 21.30 45% 9.59
2009-02-15 155 1 0 0 40.90 39.61 45% 17.82
2009-02-16 161 2 3 0 278.60 130.27 45% 58.62
2009-02-17 180 1 6 0 106.35 -69.67 45% -31.35
2009-02-18 183 0 1 0 129.86 -413.61 45% -186.12
2009-02-19 146 0 3 0 72.40 53.93 45% 24.27
2009-02-20 154 0 0 0 1,151.58 399.03 45% 179.56
2009-02-21 121 4 1 1 107.37 31.41 45% 14.13
2009-02-22 131 1 4 3 455.02 -94.99 45% -42.75
2009-02-23 138 0 2 1 590.91 183.65 45% 82.64
2009-02-24 187 1 1 0 639.10 438.18 45% 197.18
2009-02-25 204 0 0 0 188.16 -46.12 45% -20.75
2009-02-26 161 4 2 0 705.46 65.24 45% 29.36
2009-02-27 193 4 3 1 434.50 304.91 45% 137.21
2009-02-28 146 0 0 0 235.21 133.48 45% 60.07
2009-03-01 168 0 1 0 820.89 540.45 45% 243.20
2009-03-02 195 0 4 4 664.15 238.57 45% 107.36
2009-03-03 157 1 1 1 399.74 288.34 45% 129.75
2009-03-04 194 0 2 0 367.67 48.31 45% 21.74
2009-03-05 127 0 2 2 497.45 74.09 45% 33.34
2009-03-06 121 1 0 0 416.46 -62.30 45% -28.04
2009-03-07 170 1 1 0 286.33 -65.66 45% -29.55
2009-03-08 151 0 1 1 293.47 120.29 45% 54.13
2009-03-09 121 0 0 0 355.25 8.70 45% 3.92
2009-03-10 148 0 0 0 196.28 66.97 45% 30.14
2009-03-11 175 0 1 0 75.57 53.26 45% 23.97
2009-03-12 181 0 0 0 126.52 -103.78 45% -46.70
2009-03-13 241 1 0 0 638.33 -620.58 45% -279.26
2009-03-14 152 0 0 0 205.83 -552.31 45% -248.54
2009-03-15 167 1 2 0 66.47 107.98 45% 48.59
2009-03-16 192 1 1 1 1,485.52 -544.05 45% -244.82
2009-03-17 286 2 2 0 229.66 -1,294.52 45% -582.53
2009-03-18 306 4 2 0 330.46 204.80 45% 92.16
2009-03-19 215 0 0 0 22.23 -696.65 45% -313.49
2009-03-20 196 0 4 1 881.58 22.49 45% 10.12
2009-03-21 171 0 1 1 143.16 -720.07 45% -324.03
2009-03-22 196 0 2 1 79.76 -202.36 45% -91.06
2009-03-23 164 0 1 1 162.03 -672.73 45% -302.73
2009-03-24 228 0 0 0 862.93 550.82 45% 247.87
2009-03-25 205 0 1 0 227.79 432.49 45% 194.62
2009-03-26 136 1 4 4 1,029.60 -54.43 45% -24.49
2009-03-27 158 3 0 0 1,539.48 -576.39 45% -259.38
2009-03-28 144 1 1 0 917.21 876.54 45% 394.44
2009-03-29 132 0 1 0 204.50 30.70 45% 13.82
2009-03-30 111 3 1 0 767.70 -6,270.37 45% -2,821.67
2009-03-31 152 1 3 1 739.80 453.29 45% 203.98
2009-04-01 126 1 4 1 115.34 93.37 45% 42.02
2009-04-02 155 0 0 1 1,738.71 -318.68 45% -143.41
2009-04-03 114 0 0 0 372.83 -1,482.60 45% -667.17
2009-04-04 121 0 2 1 1,576.71 1,000.32 45% 450.14
2009-04-05 127 1 0 0 600.46 307.18 45% 138.23
2009-04-06 121 0 0 0 3,196.36 -1,956.38 45% -880.37
2009-04-07 140 0 0 0 1,763.00 -447.75 45% -201.49
2009-04-08 134 0 1 1 713.15 508.14 45% 228.66
2009-04-09 149 0 1 0 4,090.34 2,023.40 45% 910.53
2009-04-10 169 2 1 0 775.41 348.76 45% 156.94
2009-04-11 150 0 2 2 2,650.28 1,441.57 45% 648.71
2009-04-12 123 1 0 0 237.23 58.98 45% 26.54
2009-04-13 167 1 0 0 0.00 8.83 45% 3.97
2009-04-14 193 2 1 0 579.01 233.59 45% 105.12
2009-04-15 171 0 0 0 1,566.45 764.00 45% 343.80
2009-04-16 164 3 1 1 367.79 156.72 45% 70.52
2009-04-17 157 1 0 0 468.71 284.10 45% 127.85
2009-04-18 162 2 0 1 246.22 20.00 45% 9.00
2009-04-19 158 0 0 0 122.08 -176.12 45% -79.25
2009-04-20 207 1 2 2 901.63 -234.27 45% -105.42
2009-04-21 157 1 2 2 452.68 683.24 45% 307.46
2009-04-22 133 1 1 0 715.00 -177.64 45% -79.94
2009-04-23 130 3 1 0 1,038.68 -807.34 45% -363.30
2009-04-24 110 0 0 0 347.25 149.97 45% 67.49
2009-04-25 94 4 1 1 2,938.81 1,659.60 45% 746.82
2009-04-26 105 0 2 2 546.49 10.40 45% 4.68
2009-04-27 106 2 0 0 164.45 48.66 45% 21.90
2009-04-28 172 0 6 2 609.37 153.04 45% 68.87
2009-04-29 163 2 2 0 416.39 498.09 45% 224.14
2009-04-30 87 2 3 2 406.83 292.87 45% 131.79
2009-05-01 109 6 2 1 713.97 -2,245.03 45% -1,010.26
2009-05-02 74 0 0 0 310.64 282.33 45% 127.05
2009-05-03 68 5 4 1 433.59 78.20 45% 35.19
2009-05-04 137 5 0 1 935.58 680.94 45% 306.42
2009-05-05 136 5 1 0 416.97 159.75 45% 71.89
2009-05-06 130 4 1 2 240.69 226.32 45% 101.84
2009-05-07 104 10 2 0 255.08 59.28 45% 26.68
2009-05-08 75 2 0 1 209.98 208.28 45% 93.73
2009-05-09 73 7 1 0 980.82 205.71 45% 92.57
2009-05-10 106 5 0 0 1,237.49 175.94 45% 79.17
2009-05-11 124 8 3 2 1,789.62 1,178.26 45% 530.22
2009-05-12 174 1 1 0 709.30 207.44 45% 93.35
2009-05-13 140 11 5 4 755.54 352.28 45% 158.53
2009-05-14 105 2 0 0 445.76 328.45 45% 147.80
2009-05-15 138 7 2 1 122.00 59.24 45% 26.66
2009-05-16 91 2 1 1 125.00 -261.41 45% -117.63
2009-05-17 75 1 0 0 363.13 215.75 45% 97.09
2009-05-18 76 3 2 2 641.63 429.84 45% 193.43
2009-05-19 94 1 0 0 1,038.00 401.02 45% 180.46
2009-05-20 77 0 0 0 1,195.81 830.48 45% 373.72
2009-05-21 117 2 0 0 88.23 28.83 45% 12.97
2009-05-22 89 1 0 0 825.94 265.10 45% 119.30
2009-05-23 102 3 0 0 224.70 182.12 45% 81.95
2009-05-24 63 4 0 0 116.92 -14.85 45% -6.68
2009-05-25 95 1 0 0 217.72 -308.80 45% -138.96
2009-05-26 91 5 2 1 651.68 -665.66 45% -299.55
2009-05-27 171 7 3 2 861.08 367.65 45% 165.44
2009-05-28 121 2 0 0 1,449.15 368.43 45% 165.79
2009-05-29 69 1 0 0 474.00 -73.56 45% -33.10
2009-05-30 50 1 0 0 521.23 381.43 45% 171.64
2009-05-31 68 1 0 0 90.00 127.30 45% 57.29
2009-06-01 80 2 0 0 179.04 354.70 45% 159.62
2009-06-02 130 8 1 2 238.68 111.54 45% 50.19
2009-06-03 139 9 3 0 184.57 -98.74 45% -44.43
2009-06-04 131 5 1 1 1,395.94 89.20 45% 40.14
2009-06-05 96 2 0 0 429.00 -63.22 45% -28.45
2009-06-06 106 4 2 1 95.06 -1,389.05 45% -625.07
2009-06-07 72 4 0 0 549.46 3.12 45% 1.40
2009-06-08 100 4 0 0 539.69 -1,479.21 45% -665.64
2009-06-09 134 8 2 1 780.86 83.18 45% 37.43
2009-06-10 139 8 2 1 1,160.62 319.00 45% 143.55
2009-06-11 70 9 0 0 486.48 256.19 45% 115.29
2009-06-12 108 2 0 0 406.05 107.89 45% 48.55
2009-06-13 63 3 1 1 436.16 -226.25 45% -101.81
2009-06-14 62 2 0 0 382.20 41.91 45% 18.86
2009-06-15 149 6 2 1 942.07 -22.41 45% -10.08
2009-06-16 128 8 1 1 1,110.61 632.51 45% 284.63
2009-06-17 165 8 4 3 1,954.00 1,040.05 45% 468.02
2009-06-18 68 1 0 0 629.46 -1,040.52 45% -468.23
2009-06-19 125 2 0 0 606.23 -5,334.34 45% -2,400.45
2009-06-20 79 2 0 0 143.56 471.62 45% 212.23
2009-06-21 84 2 0 0 2,256.61 1,177.81 45% 530.01
2009-06-22 102 6 2 2 887.25 -841.42 45% -378.64
2009-06-23 107 2 1 0 993.20 458.03 45% 206.11
2009-06-24 90 3 1 1 1,126.61 335.60 45% 151.02
2009-06-25 101 4 1 1 1,317.40 -79.63 45% -35.83
2009-06-26 72 1 0 0 977.20 578.06 45% 260.13
2009-06-27 90 3 1 0 757.29 395.70 45% 178.07
2009-06-28 59 0 0 0 733.56 -1,097.63 45% -493.93
2009-06-29 132 4 0 0 1,041.71 117.74 45% 52.98
2009-06-30 151 7 1 0 1,277.06 654.56 45% 294.55
2009-07-01 194 3 0 0 1,464.05 453.65 45% 204.14
2009-07-02 250 1 1 0 1,178.46 -3,599.77 45% -1,619.90
2009-07-03 298 6 2 2 847.68 439.56 45% 197.80
2009-07-04 67 3 1 1 994.26 594.23 45% 267.40
2009-07-05 65 1 2 0 291.00 48.91 45% 22.01
2009-07-06 157 3 0 0 502.80 228.23 45% 102.70
2009-07-07 120 7 1 1 303.00 187.58 45% 84.41
2009-07-08 147 5 1 1 422.20 -74.59 45% -33.57
2009-07-09 138 15 2 0 1,115.28 -171.64 45% -77.24
2009-07-10 115 1 0 0 825.81 201.28 45% 90.58
2009-07-11 56 21 1 1 943.06 601.22 45% 270.55
2009-07-12 66 4 0 0 840.65 604.75 45% 272.14
2009-07-13 66 6 2 0 844.73 223.67 45% 100.65
2009-07-14 87 3 0 0 384.81 -157.30 45% -70.79
2009-07-15 98 4 2 1 675.28 21.48 45% 9.67
2009-07-16 95 2 0 0 595.61 6.94 45% 3.12
2009-07-17 53 2 0 0 1,479.53 1,067.31 45% 480.29
2009-07-18 49 1 0 0 985.74 424.19 45% 190.89
2009-07-19 62 3 0 0 464.60 244.21 45% 109.89
2009-07-20 88 2 0 0 2,162.35 966.67 45% 435.00
2009-07-21 89 1 0 0 710.99 238.18 45% 107.18
2009-07-22 60 2 1 1 994.09 -710.36 45% -319.66
2009-07-23 71 2 1 0 1,157.16 -482.21 45% -216.99
2009-07-24 118 5 2 1 1,430.81 696.22 45% 313.30
2009-07-25 78 2 0 1 246.52 -212.73 45% -95.73
2009-07-26 70 8 1 0 345.78 -362.67 45% -163.20
2009-07-27 73 8 0 0 1,262.18 614.89 45% 276.70
2009-07-28 71 2 0 0 1,105.25 -175.19 45% -78.84
2009-07-29 97 0 0 0 664.34 -2,123.46 45% -955.56
2009-07-30 97 1 0 0 495.06 -1,838.81 45% -827.46
2009-07-31 91 1 0 0 829.74 1,586.43 45% 713.89
2009-08-01 45 1 0 0 1,175.94 128.80 45% 57.96
2009-08-02 60 7 1 0 694.94 -10,069.16 45% -4,531.12
2009-08-03 111 6 2 1 993.09 108.60 45% 48.87
2009-08-04 102 0 0 0 2,080.09 -234.70 45% -105.62
2009-08-05 109 1 1 1 2,186.36 1,662.35 45% 748.06
2009-08-06 79 0 1 0 848.42 455.13 45% 204.81
2009-08-07 54 1 0 0 2,393.07 1,857.84 45% 836.03
2009-08-08 47 0 0 0 605.52 -495.21 45% -222.84
2009-08-09 60 2 0 0 1,301.19 1,890.19 45% 850.59
2009-08-10 99 1 0 0 642.33 561.23 45% 252.55
2009-08-11 76 1 0 0 1,866.26 1,059.93 45% 476.97
2009-08-12 34 0 0 0 0.00 0.00 45% 0.00
Total 23953 524 349 143 164,057.94 -1,957.87 -881.04

[Uffiliates]

Mike,
I know that on your end it might look fishy, but did you contact the support?
I know that whenever I get a query of such as a support representative I`m checking everything to the bottom.

have you had negative commission in the time period before there was a change ? it might have been written in the T&C but you just was on a winning strike before.

I hope you`ll find the answer I know it feels like crap when you think that the cheat on you, but if they do and give you no answers there is only one thing to do.
however, not guilty till proven
good luck my friend

[mike76]

Mike,
I know that on your end it might look fishy, but did you contact the support?

- Many many times.. at first no real reply and then after little push - we got them to do a check up of which I just heard all was fine and that before the switch I had a big player and after switch he's not been playing.

I know that whenever I get a query of such as a support representative I`m checking everything to the bottom.


- Well, I dont know what the bottom really is, but if you are just confronted with an answer that all is ok and it's just some lucky players winning or a big player lost - what good does it do?

have you had negative commission in the time period before there was a change ? it might have been written in the T&C but you just was on a winning strike before.

- Thats also so funny - as you can see from the stats posted, we started to promote them on Feb 08 and since from day one we were consistently growing the database and results and we did not have a negative result from Betsson in the first 9 months of operation, but after the switch it's half and half plus even the months that are not negative, they are still far away from the glory days.


I hope you`ll find the answer I know it feels like crap when you think that the cheat on you, but if they do and give you no answers there is only one thing to do.

- Well, when I pushed for an answer after time and time again - since when I asked for it they said sure - we will check it.. time goes on I ask again.. same thing.. and then I get a bit moody and ask a little bit more firmly and then I get a reply stating the following;

I have been analyzing your account with focus on Betsson to see if I can find anything strange on your account.

This is what I come up with when looking at your BE result:

Jan Positive

Feb Positive

Mars – 8,318 Euro Net rev. This was due to a casino hit the 30th of Mars. As almost always after a big casino win the deposit levels increases. That was what happened now as well.

April Positive

May Positive

June Negative

July Negative

Aug So far negative. This was due to a casino hit the 2nd of August. Directly the days after the deposit levels increases. With casino players you always win you money back in the long run.

I can summarize it like this. It takes a while to build up a liquidity base. So when you have Players winning, that’s not all bad, that is all good. Casino is a up-and-down type of product. But the affiliate always comes out winning in the end because you have build up high stack casino players. The customer life time value is about 18 months with Betsson so it is very long.

Betsson as a brand in Scandinavia and Finland is huge. We invest a whole lot in development and marketing in this market. You will come out winning long term working with Betsson."

however, not guilty till proven
good luck my friend

Well, to proof something in this business with the limited details affiliates mainly receive - it's hard, very very hard. Thus we just have to question them, ourselves and others to see if there's something Fishy or Not - and that's what I have been asking of you.

Clearly there's no black and white answer, but from my own experience I can say I just dont understand it - we have many clients not to mention the one I myself operated in the past and we have never seen such a poor performance - from 163k of deposits, how can you make a negative result with no huge winners that could explain the poor results. By huge I mean seriously big winners winning tens of thousands, but here in this case there has not been such players.. just lucky winners each and every month. Personally my decision is clear, I have taken them down and I will also lower their other brand visibility even though it has been very good to us.

One other thing in this mess is the odd fact that Betsson was getting so many clients even though we did not promote them that much. I suppose that is due to cross marketing betsson to the casinoeuro clients which I asked them to stop. Clearly I do not want them to promote betsson to my highly profitable casino players when betsson does these awful results for us, but since those words went unnoticed I will pull down casinoeuros positions as well and remove betsson completely.

So if there's no one else that has clearly seen evidence of results falling and has legimate reasons to suspect betsson - I'll rest my case and just take them down.

[bb1web]

Hi,

Just curious. do they bundle?

Otherwords does one income take away from the other?

That would matter to me. If they don't bundle then just promote the profitable property.

were stupid enough to kill their business with stupid bonuses offered to existing customers - then they sure do not deserve the time of day, but if look at their actual results as a company they are experiencing huge growth and making the best revenues ever,

well if they're like some of the RTGs then the bonuses handed out greatly hurt your commission but don't hurt the casino very much at all.

Its a stupid business model if you ask me but ...

[mike76]

Hi,

Just curious. do they bundle?

Otherwords does one income take away from the other?

That would matter to me. If they don't bundle then just promote the profitable property.




well if they're like some of the RTGs then the bonuses handed out greatly hurt your commission but don't hurt the casino very much at all.

Its a stupid business model if you ask me but ...

No they dont bundle, so I have been making a very healthy income with their other brand. I just wish that they wouldn't do cross marketing to the database as I think it will just cause a leakage of these players from the brand I promote to their main brand that does not offer proper results.

Anyway, I have now taken the other one down completely and removed the other from the top spots just to see how things develop with someone else taking the business. A company of such size should not have need to delibrately taking away customers and I suppose thats not the case here either, but for some reason the revenues took a hard spiral down when the platform changed and it has never recovered from that, not even nearly a year after. So I suppose something still changed or was missed, or then I'm just an unlucky bastard in this

[live]

I am just uo with my first web site ever. So I can not have any opinion that is valid conserning Betson or how things shake. But I would like to say that for some reason I have landed with Affiliate lounge (betsson, Casino Euro, Cherry) for my first reviews and promotion. ILiked their slots and they are no download which I am focusing on. I ahve been up less than a month. I have 2000 clicks on all three csainos awit no sign ups. I have aske dthem what they think about these nymbers and I havenot had a reply in a week. I need more time to know the score. But if this info is helpful then I have started n the right foot with GPWA.
Thankk you all for being here and I hoe to be an active member as I go into this new life I am creating for my small family. HI
david

[bb1web]

I have 2000 clicks on all three csainos awit no sign ups. I have aske dthem what they think about these nymbers and I havenot had a reply in a week

unless those clicks are from keyword targets involving the word "free" then I'd say 2000 without any money to show ... is enough to merit replacing their properties with something different. JMO.