Has anyone been approached about the "moral issue" involved in gambling?

[xecutable]

Has anyone else been approached about the moral issue in being an affiliate for gambling/casino sites?

I've had few, religious know associates of mine approach me with something like "Don't you think it's wrong to convince people to gamble and make money of their losses?"

I personally feel no shame nor regret in what I am doing, and simply replied that I am sending traffic to those sites, and the given bookmaker shares part of its profit with me. Whoever registered was going to do it, one way or another, and his/her personal finances are no concern of mine.

And then I added, that the liquor store doesn't care that you might be raging alcoholic, spending every penny of yours for it and u might even end up dead. The tobacco business doesn't care the millions die, the junk food industry doesn't care about people getting obese.

Bottom line it's legitimate business that requires a lot of work, effort and persistence.

Anyone had any similar experience?

[Dominique]

This comes up periodically on various message boards over the years. Your argument is exactly on target.

Besides, we don't "convince" people to gamble, they come to our sites because they want to gamble already.

I feel good about my site because I figure by filtering out shady places I do players a favor - there are quite a few unethical casinos out there.

Most people gamble as a hobby and for entertainment, have a monthly budget and there is nothing wrong with this.

People can become addicted to most anything, from alcohol, tobacco and drugs to extreme sports, carbohydrates, sex, chocolate, jogging and what have you. Gambling has a very low addiction rate.

That is not to minimize the havoc addictions of all kinds, including gambling, can cause. I do also have a page for problem gamblers, giving advice on how to find out if you have a real problem and what to do if you do.

[davemerry]

My dad is a pastor at a local church and co-manages an addiction rehabilitation centre (kind of general but mainly gambling, alcohol and drug addicts), so yes the moral issue has been thrust in my face a number of times and there have been some awkward moments.

I do my bit for charity and I donate a lot of money to various causes including my families projects - not just as a mark of respect but also because I understand that gambling addiction can tear peoples lives and families apart and I want people who want help to get help.

My general viewpoint however is as you said, if someone is going to gamble then they are going to gamble - either way it will be lining somebodies pockets, it might as well be mine. Anyone I know who does have a strong viewpoint on gambling doesn't seem to mind when I get a round in the pub or buy them an expensive Christmas present.

People who want to gamble are going to do it either way. A good friend of mine is hooked on it and no matter how many times I go through the maths of payout rates he will still pump his last £ into the pub fruit machine - give people a fair warning however most of the time they know exactly what they are doing and enjoy the buzz.

[xecutable]

Gambling has a very low addiction rate.

I think people are generally uneducated about that topic, seems like a taboo therefore very little is said. Plus you know the media, there could be 1% of addiction among people and they will blow the whole thing all over the news.

My dad is a pastor at a local church and co-manages an addiction rehabilitation centre (kind of general but mainly gambling, alcohol and drug addicts), so yes the moral issue has been thrust in my face a number of times and there have been some awkward moments.

I can relate, while my father isn't a pastor he is a very religious member of the Catholic church and I get the same awkward moments once on a while.

Thanks for the responses guys

[tryme]

Hi, xecutable,

This is one of those things where there is a great deal of cultural weight and influence that determines people's opinions and it is different for different countries. As you're in the US, you'll be aware that there is still a great streak of puritanism running through the culture that turns a lot of things into mortal sins: drinking, gambling, etc, etc.

I'm in the UK, where we have a fairly healthy and relaxed attitude to gambling - especially sports betting and bingo. It's very rare over here that you would get the 'you are feeding someones addiction and profiting from it' argument. On this side of the pond, online gambling is legal, there are bookmakers on every high street and casual betting is an accepted part of life.

One example: the Grand National horse race is coming up this weekend - and everyone, I mean everyone from young to old, bets on it. Most of the people betting, bet once a year on this race only - it's a big thing, it's a little bit of fun, but no one is making any moral judgements.

Nevertheless, I'm going to quote your argument against you:

And then I added, that the liquor store doesn't care that you might be raging alcoholic, spending every penny of yours for it and u might even end up dead. The tobacco business doesn't care the millions die, the junk food industry doesn't care about people getting obese

I'm not sure that saying, in effect, 'other businesses don't care about the physical and mental harm they are causing their customers, so why should I?' is a particularly helpful point to make.

As Dominique has already said, gambling is a form of recreation and entertainment. All you are doing as an affiliate is trying to point people in the direction of trustworthy sites, giving a few tips or guides to how to play, throwing in a few sports picks or whatever.

There's no case to answer here. Don't defend things that don't require defending. After all (and this might not work as an analogy for a US based affiliate), if you had to watch Blackburn Rovers v Wigan Athletic, you'd need to put a bet on it just to get through the game.

[xecutable]

Hi,

You are indeed right. I moved to the US some 10 years ago, and indeed I did run into a lot of cultural differences. Seems like whatever is outlawed here in most states, for example, gambling/steroids people consider much more unethical, than you know... drinking and smoking like a chimney. If you raise your voice, you get "but those are legal though". As long something is legal it's ok... I don't really get that but anyways.

I know what you are talking about, I do bet on certain games to spice them a bit, most of the time Serie A games that tend to end 0:0.

I wouldn't call my words 'defending' more like stating obvious facts to make people think about it. People don't like to think now a days, it's much easier to absorb it from the media, cause they give us only the truth right (sarcasm). Once we accept that they feed us the truth (sarcasm again) we stop questioning it.

I blame the media, you never see a movie involving a leisure punter like me for example, you always see those people that owe money to bad people and they need to get that last game right to come up clean, and viewers get the wrong idea. Agree?

[tryme]

I know what you are talking about, I do bet on certain games to spice them a bit, most of the time Serie A games that tend to end 0:0.

Oh, I feel your pain. If you're watching top level Italian football, then, for sure, you need to bet. It's either that or sleep. Remember when Italian football was the best in Europe? Days long since past, I'm afraid.

I'd presumed that, because you live in San Diego, you were American by birth. Apologies. My point, I think, is this: you're going to come across lots more of that gambling is a sin argument. You're right when you say "you never see a movie involving a leisure punter like me" - that doesn't make for an exciting movie.

Nevertheless, we both know that most gamblers - casino or sports - are leisure punters. Keep doing what you're doing - point the punters in the direction of good sportsbooks, give them good information. That's all you can do.

[xecutable]

Heh yeah when I first arrived in 1999, Calcio was all they would show you here, big money weren't in EPL still. I am thankful though, I can sit out the whole weekend just watching EPL.

By the way how about from religious point of view. Isn't even leisure gambling considered a sin or something. I am not religious so I wouldn't know but my father gives me speeches once on a while when we hear each other on the phone.

[Anthony-Coral]

Interesting thread, Xecutable.

I also often get the religious argument from my mother about what I do for a living. After I've trotted out the same lines that several of you have mentioned above I always seem to come back to same point; I say to her "When the Church of England and other organised religions decide to divest themselves of a sizeable chunk of their property portfolios, stock investments and insurance schemes and begin to redistribute their wealth amongst those in real need - THEN I will consider getting a 'normal' job!"

Not all moral arguments against gambling have to be religious ones but that just happens to be the one I hear the most.

[CasinoTom]

I remember a few years ago approaching an email agency about some potential plans who told me in no uncertain terms that they thought advertising gambling was 'immoral', 'underhand' and generally 'the pursuit of gains through the suffering of others'. It was a very strong and personal response from their MD that shocked me at the time.

Then a few years later, I saw that they were indeed working with igaming companies. Seemed the 'almighty dollar' seemed to have won out there.

[baldidiot]

I think many affiliates don't tell people about their igaming affiliate - for this specific reason. "Online marketing" is a good phrase, and if they inquire further just confuse them with jargon and buzz words

Same thing happened to me when I first left uni and got my income from poker - a lot of people don't understand and just have a knee jerk reaction. Weird thing is though that most of these people are out buying lottery tickets every weekend...

I have a friend who had a serious gambling problem (he was actually fired from his job over it after they caught him stealing from the safe) and this has, on occasion, caused me to evaluate my entrance into the industry. However, as Dominique said we are filtering out the cr@p and pointing players in the right direction. I think it would be different if we were taking to the streets trying to convince people to gamble...

[ocreditor]

I also know someone who's addicted to gambling, and he's the only person to have ever given me a lecture about that I do. He feels that the industry deliberately targets addicts like him, that casinos are not interested in the people who play for fun or just a couple of times a week, they're looking for the guys who're going to spend their blow their salaries there. I think his perspective as an addict is somewhat warped, obviously.

[xecutable]

So it seems like most of us have experienced one time or another this "issue".

Same thing happened to me when I first left uni and got my income from poker - a lot of people don't understand and just have a knee jerk reaction. Weird thing is though that most of these people are out buying lottery tickets every weekend...

Funny thing I must admit, that the lottery is not considered by the majority of people a form of gambling. Yet it is...

[baldidiot]

So it seems like most of us have experienced one time or another this "issue".
Funny thing I must admit, that the lottery is not considered by the majority of people a form of gambling. Yet it is...

Very true, which is interesting considering it's one of the worst in terms of payout. Maybe because the chances of winning are so slim they don't see it as gambling, more like buying a piece of paper with numbers on it

[WinYourWayKyle]

I have had a similar experience...
My response is very simple...
If they have lived a completely "pure" life as they put it...
Then we can chat...
If you have never drank, had sex before marriage, placed a bet, smoke a cig, did a drug, etc etc etc
Then we can chat... This will usually shut them up fairly quickly

[Anthony]

This addresses the moral issue in a response to a Christian Science Monitor article, it took me a while to find it. The article was on Yahoo, JTodd's comment below was removed.

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/jtodds-re...or-190717.html



JTodd's response to the Christian Science Monitor

Christian Science Monitor article, "Bill to legalize Internet gambling: No dice"
Has warranted a response from JTodd. A link to the article is here and JTodd's response is below.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/...mbling-No-dice

As a Christian I am constantly shocked by the ignorance and hypocrisy carried out under the religious umbrella. Gambling is not a sin. Gambling is not ethically right or wrong. People can abuse and become addicted to a variety of things, but the "holier than thou" folks always single out drinking, smoking, and gambling as "wrong". Truth is none of those things are sins and they cannot justify otherwise. Period.

Gambling is a part of the human condition. Gambling is what pushed frontiersmen to the west. Gambling is what took us to the moon. People gamble every time they drive their car. And if adults want to responsibly gamble is no ones "ethical obligation" to enforce their warped sense of moral high ground on the rest of us.

Online gambling has been studied by Harvard Medical and it's no more addictive than a real casino! Online gambling has been legal and regulated in the United Kingdom for years and it works! Gambling has a negative reputation in the United States for cultural reasons and prejudices that don't exists outside the superficial and shallow borders of this country. And most of those who condemn gambling do so simply because they were taught it's "wrong" by someone else... and the cycle of ignorance continues.

Online gambling is going on right this second in America with NO protection for children, NO protection for addicts, and NO consumer safety. But people will continue to do so no matter what misguided laws the "ethically superior" self-appointed naughty police. Prohibition of alcohol failed miserably. The "war" on drugs is a complete failure. And despite all the warning millions of people still smoke tobacco. Shouldn't we then outlaw all cigarettes, cigars, and liquor because someone may become addicted? Or kids could get a hold of them? NO. And why? Because this is a free country where adults can make their own choices... even "bad" ones... if they wish to do so.

Christian Science Monitor has attempted to use old cliché's and scare tactics that have been refuted since 2005. There's NO WAY to "click a mouse and lose your house" because no one can deposit that much at an online gambling site OTHER THAN already legal state run horse betting sites! And by the way, there's no state officials to stop an addict from buying up $30,000 in lottery tickets. There's no one at a casino policing the ATM's to stop those who have had too much to drink. To say otherwise is at best complete lack of common sense and at worst an outright lie.

The regulation of online gambling in the United States would create a database of player activity to identify and help addicts. It would create an age verification process that would protect children. It would create over site to ensure fair gaming. It would create electronic fingerprints on all transactions to prevent money laundering. It would create a system of player protection, dispute resolution, and accountability on all sides. It would keep the 12 billion dollars a year wagered in this country and, yes, create a tax base. This is not speculation, these things are happening in Europe and other industries... and they work.

It's time the opponents of gambling realize that they are not the final authority on what is acceptable behavior and stop hiding behind the lies of "child protection" and "protecting the addicts" that are only an attempt to obtain their moral objectives. If you truly want to protect people then don't shove this activity underground to corporations beyond the reach of law enforcement... that's where the criminals are! Bring the activity into the light where everything is monitored, transparent, tracked, and checked.

[GamTrak]

In the beginning I was very bothered by it and desided to talk to my bishop about it. He basically said that I was doing a job and didn't lay a guilt trip on me which really helped me to continue in the industry. It was only after seeing some shady stuff that brought the guilt back a bit, but I realize that it's in every aspect of business and this industry is no different. IMO we have to do our best to provide reputable brands to the players and hope for the best.

[Anthony-Coral]

Great response by JTodd, thanks for that Anthony but the link you posted doesn't work for me - get a 404

[eaton2003]

I have had a few people mentioned that they are not thrilled about me being involved with online gaming but they have still remained friends and understand it is a business. No bible bashers yet but I am sure that is to come one of these days.

[DeannaD_IA]

This is a really great thread, and while not an issue I've encountered personally (as my family and friends are very liberal and open-minded), it's an unavoidable topic in this industry. I'm happy and proud to work in this industry, and think it's key to remember that in ANY industry, it's really the individual players (affiliates, operators and everyone in between) that dictate how business is conducted, and whether or not it's deemed 'ethical'. Quality affiliates who provide pertinent value to site visitors are putting in a lot of time, effort and money to do so. It's fairly difficult to "stumble" upon an iGaming site, so if a visitor arrives at an affiliate site, it's because they've sought it out.

I think good affiliates truly have their players' best interests at heart and dissect and analyze the online gambling space to identify the best offers, trustworthy operators, etc. so that players can avoid getting burned. Similarly, ethical operators provide access to the resources that help curb excessive gambling habits. As mentioned in so many of the above posts, addiction comes in many forms far worse than gambling IMO - namely smoking and drinking, which are simply too profitable for the government to ever be made illegal.

At the end of the day I know myself and the company I work for rule our conduct placing the utmost importance on being ethical, and I would hope the same from those we work with