Is the House Edge a Scam? Thoughts on RTP and Fairness

[Emiliana Rostowicz]

I recently came across an online thread where someone claimed that online slots are a “scam” because they always operate with a built-in house edge. The reasoning: since the RTP (Return to Player) is always below 100%, players are statistically destined to lose in the long run.
Others argued that as long as the RTP is publicly stated and verified by regulators, and the games produce truly random results, then it’s not a scam, it’s just how the business model works, openly and transparently.
Someone even pointed out that most casino profits often come from "whales" VIP players who play heavily and consistently - not from deceiving the general public.
❓ So here’s the question I keep coming back to:
If a casino openly publishes its RTP, regulators confirm that the games match it, and the math is transparent -
is this a fair model, or still a form of exploitation, since players are statistically bound to lose?
Would love to hear your perspectives on where the line is between honest business and ethical responsibility in this industry.

[golfbettingsystem]

I think it’s an accepted part of gambling. Think roulette, players will know there’s a house edge built in to every single spin but that doesn’t stop them playing and is not seen as unethical - it’s simply the game.

[DaftDog]

If there wasn't a house-edge then casinos wouldn't exist. Your local charity cake raffle has a larger house edge than most casinos.

[chaumi]

Your local charity cake raffle has a larger house edge than most casinos.

Plus the anticipation/adrenaline levels are off the charts for an upcoming (high end) charity cake raffle!

[golfbettingsystem]

Plus the anticipation/adrenaline levels are off the charts for an upcoming (high end) charity cake raffle!

This randomly reminded me of the old football scratchcards that used to do the rounds in the pubs and football clubs here in the 80s and 90s, massive excitement when the card was filled despite the ‘house edge’ being 50%!!!

[DaftDog]

Plus the anticipation/adrenaline levels are off the charts for an upcoming (high end) charity cake raffle!

... anticipation/adrenaline/drooling levels that are off the charts...

[universal4]

Wait, we can win a cake?

What kind of cake and what kind of icing....I like cake.

Rick
Universal4

[TheGooner]

No - casino operations are not a scam because they make a profit, or because they don't return 100% of wagers.
As you say - that is their method of business.

We don't call the local coffee cart, cafe or restaurant a scam just because they charge you for their food and drink.
Now if they said that it was free - and then stole your money - then it's a scam,

However, what is a scam is the numerous affiliates, influencers, tiktokers and websites that claim to have their own unique systems to win big at the casinos, that it's a path to wealth or a great way to win money.

I've seen "advertorials" that seem to be targeting people who are short on money suggesting this game or that game (currently it's some weird Japanese ball dropping game?) is the way to easily win 1000's quickly and that it magically appears in your bank account second after requesting a withdrawal.

These are a scam. And the tacit approval of these tactics by the casino properties in not shutting them down (because they are surely aware of them) is also a "scam".

[TheGooner]

Wait, we can win a cake?

What kind of cake and what kind of icing....I like cake.

Oh - and I am sorry for diverting the thread ...

I like cake too. Chocolate cake with a wee bit of cream and raspberry jam.
I'll buy a ticket for that !

[Emiliana Rostowicz]

Thanks for your input — I agree that house edge is a known and accepted part of gambling.
But I still wonder: does transparency alone justify the model ethically, if players are statistically set up to lose over time? ��

[TheGooner]

.
But I still wonder: does transparency alone justify the model ethically, if players are statistically set up to lose over time? ��

Did you just ask is it ethical to make a profit?
Is it ethical for consumers to choose where and how to spend their own money?

The world is a marketplace of goods and services for sale.
If the goods and costs associated are correctly disclosed then that's a big step towards honest ethical deals.

Casinos are set up to provide an entertaining gambling experience and a "chance" to win.
That's the same as lotteries, sports betting, bingo, scratchies, and even the local cake raffle discussed above.

Yes - if the games are explained correctly - the games are ethical.

-----

Gambling in moderation - as entertainment - is acceptable to me and to most people.
Freedom of choice in spending your entertainment dollar / euro is an important part of an open society.

There is a minority "elite" (usually university educated) who believe that they know better than most people.
Gambling, alcohol, cigarettes, sex, fast cars (or at least driving them fast), guns, drugs, and a myriad of other activities are targetted.
The "elite" do not want to partake in these activities, which is fine, but they also do not want anyone else to partake either (which is not fine).

It's as if they see "lessor" people enjoying themselves and having fun and not behaving like the "elite" - and THEY WILL PUT A STOP TO THAT !!

The cry of "accepting diversity" and "different cultures" disappears when the diversity or culture is not one that they approve of or partake in.
The pendulum of power has swung towards a small intellectual group who can whip up a cause and pass laws that restrict basal activities.

Of course it's wrapped up in socially acceptable buzzwords like addiction prevention, social care, etc.
But they don't just minister to the addicted 1% - they try to close down the activity - BECAUSE THEY KNOW BEST.

But make no mistake - despite the stated intention - it is a restriction of a way of life
It is a restriction on freedom - a deliberate to removal of choice as to how you spend your money.

-----

I remember reading quotes from a 1960's / 1970's footballer called George Best.
He was an outrageous talent - but he was also an alcoholic and a gambling addict.
He was paid a fortune - but despite his talents and best intentions - his time at the top was short probably due to his lifestyle.
But had a lot of fun doing things his way.

When you read them (below) you will know that this was 50 years ago - and seemingly a world away.
George Best simply earned a lot of money - and as much fun as he could - in a manner that he knew ...

Today they'd "cancel culture" him in a minute - but for most sports fans these 3 quotes sound like a great life ...

- "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered"
- "In 1969, I gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life."
- "I used to go missing a lot... Miss Canada, Miss United Kingdom, Miss World."

Can you imagine that today?
The "elite" have stolen a whole lifestyle from us - in the name of protecting us.
However did we survive the last 2000 years without their permission ???

[Mattbar]

At least with casino games you know what their margin is and how much money (on average) they are making from any given game. That is more than you can say for most things in life as companies don't divulge the 'edge' that they make on most products and services.

With a casino the edge also doesn't change. They don't profiteer when demand is high as you see with many other industries.

Players can have little argument they are not given the information up front. Most casinos also let you play the games for free so if you just want to play a game with no edge and no risk you can.

------------

Chocolate fudge cake for me please

[MichaelCorfman]

Emiliana, thank you for the post. Interesting dialogue. Since it is actually a discussion, and not a poll, I have moved it from the polls forum to the chatter box forum.

My personal opinion, is that every business, including non-profit businesses, run with a house edge, which allows the business to hopefully at least cover its operating costs and maybe with some excess to generate a profit or grow the business. Without a house edge, no businesses would exist.

Michael

[Eleni-CasinoGruppen]

RTP being less than 100% is the only reason a Casino makes sense as a business. Why would someone run a business with 0% profits in the long run?

[Casinosti]

Great points all around, I think the key difference is transparency. The edge is declared, the games are audited, and people are free to choose how they spend their time and money. It may not be a “fair deal” in a mathematical sense, but it’s not hidden, which makes it an informed choice and that’s what really matters.

[MichaelBluejay]

The issue is not that the house edge exists, the issue is the lack of transparency. In the U.S., it's super-rare for casinos (land or online) to publish either RTP or jackpot odds. Both ought to be required by law. And if casinos had any integrity, they'd publish them without being forced to.

Casinos engage in lots of predatory practices, because, again, it's allowed. We've known since the industrial revolution over 100 years ago that businesses will engage in shady $h!t unless they're explicitly prohibited.

So, in my mind, asking whether the house edge is a scam, is simply the wrong question. The better question is, how can we increase transparency and reduce predatory practices? There's lots of room for reform.

[FreeSpins]

Btw, all taxes and social insurance system is the biggest scam ever.

[MichaelBluejay]

(groan)

[DanHorvat]

Are we sure that you didn't start accepting AI members into our forum?

[AVC-Invest]

Wow, I don't know if you are being serious with this thread or trying to troll us Emiliana Rostowicz...

This is a crazy post, effectively you are asking people in a gambling forum, if it is fair to have a house edge or is it exploitation?

You really have gone to a new realm of madness...

Delete, delete, delete.