Jackpot Contributions - What is normal, and what is not?

[ARZ]

I have a question - how big is usually the Jackpot Contributions in aff programs you cooperate with? Ex. I have one player who is regulary depositing hundreds, even thousands of EUR every month. But revenue he makes is always in red numbers, even if he did not make any withdrawal! I had a meeting with aff manager at BAC to explain me what is going on and I´ve been told, that the player is playing just the slots with Jackpot and makes many spins, that´s why he makes €3000 deposits, loose €3000, and provision is €-800 I asked my other partners, and they told me, that this is just silly, every contribution is included in handling fees (5-7,5% from deposits).


Has anyone such problems?

Thanks

[Renee]

It would depend on the software being used, but with Microgaming AFAIK a percentage of each bet is paid as progressive jackpot contribution, regardless of win or loss of that bet.

We don't deduct progressive jackpot fees from affiliate commissions so I'm not 100% sure what percentage is charged by Microgaming.

Cheers

[ARZ]

Thanks Renee

I don´t know, which slot it exactly is, But this casino uses NetEnt, Microgaming and WMS softwares. Even my other partners use this soft, and I never heard of something like contribution in such big numbers

Funny is, that their offer was (if I want) to untag this player

[Karri]

I don't quite understand the issue, or the maths behind it. Are they saying that all the profit is going to the jackpot provider? if the player loses all his money, how can he be making 'negative' money for the casino?

[ocreditor]

I have a question - how big is usually the Jackpot Contributions in aff programs you cooperate with? Ex. I have one player who is regulary depositing hundreds, even thousands of EUR every month. But revenue he makes is always in red numbers, even if he did not make any withdrawal! I had a meeting with aff manager at BAC to explain me what is going on and I´ve been told, that the player is playing just the slots with Jackpot and makes many spins, that´s why he makes €3000 deposits, loose €3000, and provision is €-800 I asked my other partners, and they told me, that this is just silly, every contribution is included in handling fees (5-7,5% from deposits).


Has anyone such problems?

Thanks

The numbers you present here are indeed not looks right, even if they deduct the handling fees you shouldn't see negative balance...

[BitCasinoNoel]

The fees can also vary depending on the brand of the game. For example Batman The Dark Knight and Mega Moolah share the same jackpot but batman has higher fees as they also charge for the batman licensing fees.

However, if a player deposits 3,000 and loses 3,000 you should not have a negative revenue number for that player. So there must be something else going on, hopefully there is a simple explanation.

[JackTenSuited]

Maybe they won a lot in the base game but eventually lost it all and paid a ton in jackpot fees? trying to work it out hurts my head.

[ARZ]

Thank you guys for answers.

Even I know, that the numbers doesen´t look right, but I´ll prove it. Look at the table below. It was sent me by the aff manager. It is one month stats of one player causing the contributions "trouble". I´ll see things that way:

Total deposits - Sure thing
Casino gamewin - Means win/loss of the player deposits and bonus money
Casino bonus - Bonus awarded to player
Till this time nothing strange, please notice, that deposits + bonus match the gamewin, so that means player lost everything.

But more than €2200 deducted from revenue as the Jackpot contributions? How many % from one stake is moved to jackpot? if 1%, there should be more than €220000 turnover made And next month the same thing? And again? I am not saying it is not possible, but repeately? Pff come on

PS: I know, that I mentioned I ended in negatives in my first post, but it was another month, and there are even other players in numbers I see in my dash, so I used official screenshot from my aff manager, where things are clearer.

[JackTenSuited]

Something is off with that. The jackpot contribution would have to be huge for a player to lose 80% of his deposits to it surely?

[ARZ]

I know, even the turnover would have to be HUGE

I´ve been told to google Jackpot contribution to see things are like that Funny.

[Renee]

Without seeing the amount of turnover it's impossible to see why those numbers are so big. As I mentioned previously, the jackpot fees are per bet, win or lose. So if a player bets 10 bucks a spin and wins, there is still a percentage of the 10 bucks that goes to the jackpot contribution.

I hope that makes sense.

[ocreditor]

Without seeing the amount of turnover it's impossible to see why those numbers are so big. As I mentioned previously, the jackpot fees are per bet, win or lose. So if a player bets 10 bucks a spin and wins, there is still a percentage of the 10 bucks that goes to the jackpot contribution.

I hope that makes sense.

Renee, The amount of turnover is not the amount of the Casino Gamewin? the overall money taken by the casino before distribution ?

[Karri]

You can find the jackpot contributions from the game instructions, usually between 1-5%. It's possible that the player is just playing jackpots, wagering each deposit a dozen or so times, until he runs out of money. I mean that's the whole idea behind casino business anyways...I'd be interested in knowing which games is capable of this though.

[ARZ]

Yes Karii, I think that is the reason too. But 5% contributed to Jackpot seems like too big number, almost no revenue can come from a player playing these slots. This Player made me no revenue so far, even deducted from other players, so.. And next thing I do not understand is fact, that the Jackpot on Ex. NetEnt slots is common for all the casinos, so why is contribution so high just in this case? I never met something like that, every other casino has a standart fee of 5-10% covering all handlings even Jackpot contributions.

[universal4]

The amount of turnover is not the amount of the Casino Gamewin? the overall money taken by the casino before distribution ?

Nope, Renee will be able to clarify this, but a simple example would be

10 bets of $10 each is $100 in turnover
The netwin on that would be dependent on how many of those 10 bets won and how many did not. (the amount could be positive or negative)

The progressive contributions come out of the $100, no matter what the netwin is.

Rick
Universal4

[Renee]

Renee, The amount of turnover is not the amount of the Casino Gamewin? the overall money taken by the casino before distribution ?

Nope, Renee will be able to clarify this, but a simple example would be

10 bets of $10 each is $100 in turnover
The netwin on that would be dependent on how many of those 10 bets won and how many did not. (the amount could be positive or negative)

The progressive contributions come out of the $100, no matter what the netwin is.

Rick
Universal4

Rick's example is correct.


If I make 10 * $100 bets with the end balance of $2000, my turnover is $1000 and my gamewin would be -$1000 (as the balance is 1000 more than my original balance.

Turnover is the sum of bets.
Gamewin (or what we call gross win or net win) is the amount above (win/negative) or below (loss/positive) the initial balance.

So if your player makes 10 * $100 bets, wins $1000 and withdraws the $2000, you are still paying the progressive fees on the 10 bets of $100. It doesn't matter whether the player won or lost, the fee is taken from the bet, not from the winnings/losings.

Hope that makes sense?

You'd get a better insight asking the affiliate manager for the turnover amount on the progressive. Then you will likely see that the ~5% adds up.

[ARZ]

I understand Rick and Renee, I know what turnover means (it would be very bad to be casino affiliate and do not know what exactly turnover means)

The only thing I could not understand is the % turned into Jackpot and the coincidence of happening again and again.

Now I know, that there is somewhere between 1-5% of turnover is turned into jackpot and this player has to be extreme "lucky" coz even he makes no winnings, his turnovers prooves, that he plays a large numbers of spins, so at least he enjoys

[Karri]

Hmm. I think this is caused by all jackpot games paying out "normal" wins too. This means that each bet the player plays pays 1-5% to the jackpot contribution(which goes to the pot, which is held by NetEnt/other producer), while any wins he gets, except the jackpot itself, come from the casino.

If he plays a 100 euros, 5 of them go directly to the pot.
The casino gets 95 euros, and theoretically pays the rtp % to the player. Say the player gets back 95 euros.
He then plays 95 euros again, of which 4.75 goes to the jackpot. And on it goes. In a way each spin transfers the profit from the casino to the jackpot(kinda like reverse wagering). Casino fees is another thing, if the player deposits a lot this means transfer costs.

In any case, I guess this is one of those singular cases that has all the wrong&right modifiers in place.

[mickekneg]

Yes, 5% contribution becomes more than 5% of the deposited amount due to wagering. IF it would be the case that the customer didnt win a single spin on 1000 euro, then the net revenue wouldnt be losing more than 5%, but thats never the case ofc

Karri explained it well, cheers!