learning point for newbs or those so stuck on the word "free"

**bb1web** · 10 August 2007, 2:29 am

Hi all,

reading a thread recently revived here ... it prompted this thread.

I at one time had a page promoting silver sands casino review.

it averaged a conversion rate of 1 view ... yes I said view .... in 15 sign ups.

they proved to be less than worthy. I eventually put up differnent disclaimers.

those ended finally in a disclaimer that said...... "this casino WILL not pay you! instead of getting cheated here ...... play at this casino that will pay winners and offers the same games"....

to be honest .. won't say which casino I offered as a second choice .... because they in the end.... turned out to less than fair to affs and I won't give the benefit of saying who they were here. Just trust they too .. offered RTG software .... (there's a surprise huh? that they also turned out to be cheats)

anyway ... point I'm making is some surfers will always choose to be suckers. Nothing you can do to save them. Even when going to the extreme I ended up.

So if you're getting such traffic ........as I'm certain some are ..... no way that traffic has changed over the years ..... I flat out told them they were suckers and going to end up wasting their time if not more..... and still they chose to click thru and sign up....

that you should not feel frustrated that such traffic are fools. You can't do more than speak so abruptly to save them. While I feel you won't ever really get ahead promoting such casinos or get ahead trying my method of aiming that traffic towards better casinos for their own good....

just felt compelled to make this post. perhaps help explain the situation and perhaps save someone from wasting time and effort towards a lost cause.

freebie chasers are out there.. they won't be stopped no matter even if you are totally upfront and blunt that they are choosing a casino that won't pay them even if they win.

the numbers are wonderful. good luck ever making any real money off the fact.

hope that may have helped any dis-illusioned souls.

**bb1web** · 10 August 2007, 2:32 am

btw: you'll never figure out which thread led me to this lol. and I'll be happy to have it that way.... don't worry bout that.

concentrate on what i said in this thread. that you can't always save a fool from his money.

oh ya.... guess I should have added this at the beginning for newbs.... silver sands ran a $15 free no deposit offer back then.

**Shane** · 10 August 2007, 7:18 am

Let me add that the advice on free offers here is valid, as much interest as they generate they very rarely pull serious gamblers.

It would do you better to pull 10 serious gamblers on a buy get offer, than to pull 1000 bonus hunters on a free $X offer.

Be sure to ask about a casinos conversion strategy to get these freebie players into a buying pattern.

Shane

**bb1web** · 10 August 2007, 1:32 pm

Thanks Shane!

**LiveCasinoPartners** · 13 August 2007, 1:52 am

Thanks for the advice bb1web,
When I started tthe first instinct I had was to promote the "free" bonus chaser market. From your previous posts that you have made I realize that it's better to have fewer high quality players driven by quality traffic than "free" traffic that doesn't convert.

This concept finally hit home in the last few months were I see that I don't have that many players, but the ones that I do have make ample deposits, play frequently, and deposit monthly. I've also noticed that they are the same clients that win more too! Probably because they are more educated in the games. Anyway, in the long run it's much better.

Thanks for the insight.

Cheers!
WagerX

**bb1web** · 13 August 2007, 3:48 am

actually I have to tip the hat to the Prof at CAP.

he told me years back I'd make majority of my money off a handful of players. He was right.

its true that no-deposit... freebie chasers do convert but the numbers are so sad that frankly i don't see the advantage.

throw in the fact that it only takes one ..... (and you'll have plenty... if that's what you target) to hit a big win .... and your earnings are wiped out by somebody that never had intention to spend any amount of money.

I just don't see the advantage.

Prof and Cappy .... (of Captains free casinos) used to laugh at me because I ran PPC campaigns that started the ads saying ..... nothing for bonus chasers here

I stand by that to this day

oh..... and thank sir (Wager)

**mynuw** · 13 August 2007, 7:32 am

BB1 you're so right!!!

However I think we havwe all been down the freebie road especially as new webmasters.

However you quickly "in some cases " find out that the freebies get you players but not depositors and with most programs every free $10.00 comes right out of your prophet and if a player wins on a freebie you loosee and more than likely that player is gone, never intending to deposit.

A handful of regular/consistent depositors is 100 times better than 100 freebie hunters no matter how you slice it.

**mojo** · 13 August 2007, 7:59 am

I'll take the other side of the coin since I have a no deposit site lol. While all points made here are very valid, there is some advantages for freebies. First, it gets the players in the door. It builds your player base. While the player/deposit ratio is higher, you can still get some depositers of high value. I have gotten some high rollers off a freebie. Some actually do want to try out the casino and software. I did it myself as a new player. I didn't even know what microgaming was. I searched all the freebies and played and am now a depositer. Second, todays freebie hunter may be tomorrows player. They may not be able to fund or a dozen reasons why they havn't deposted. If they are treated right from day one real players will remember and will return. Done right, it helps create loyalty. So even the freebie hunter needs to be treated well.

It often works, otherwise there wouldn't be so many casinos with these offers.

Just my 2.

**ck8795** · 13 August 2007, 10:13 am

I am working on a casino side of my site and I won't be advertising any free spins, free hour nonsense. I have played that garbage myself and once reading the very fine print as to what you need to do to actually get your winnings seems almost next to near impossible...in short going broke first.

Not to mention that offering a 10 or 15 NDB doesn't exactly amount to much when playing in a casino so why would a serious player even turn their head for an offer like that.

Very nice post bb1!

**diceman** · 14 August 2007, 7:22 pm

Originally Posted by mojo

I'll take the other side of the coin since I have a no deposit site lol. While all points made here are very valid, there is some advantages for freebies. First, it gets the players in the door. It builds your player base. While the player/deposit ratio is higher, you can still get some depositers of high value. I have gotten some high rollers off a freebie. Some actually do want to try out the casino and software. I did it myself as a new player. I didn't even know what microgaming was. I searched all the freebies and played and am now a depositer. Second, todays freebie hunter may be tomorrows player. They may not be able to fund or a dozen reasons why they havn't deposted. If they are treated right from day one real players will remember and will return. Done right, it helps create loyalty. So even the freebie hunter needs to be treated well.

It often works, otherwise there wouldn't be so many casinos with these offers.

Just my 2.

Took the words out of my mouth..

And BB1 ... newbs...? thats a bit harsh man lol

All I have had is a "freebee" site. ONLY ONE SITE keep in mind and have had success for years untill now however that will all change.
Perhaps I just found the way to do it.. I dunno.. but I have not had to work for anyone for over 5 years and had a nice life. Just like everyone else did with 2+ sites never promoting free bonus! Also, just like those other people I to am feeling the pinch of this new change as well. A lot I can blame on myself for being lazy. Actually, if you add that fact that I have been a lazy butt for about 2 years just half assing it then it really supports my case even more. I have 2 kids to support on top of that and they are BOYS! mind you and you know how they go through food and cloths so......lol I did not do terrible.

I am not trying to argue my point really... its a bit indefensible because it seems how most casinos are starting to see things these days. Bottom line though, the numbers will show that bonuses will work for some and will now work for others. There is at least one guy right here thats made a fortune off of bonus hunters.
I guess part of that success was to promote NON bonus sites right next to the free ones... and looked at it from the point of view I took when I first started to gamble online. No matter what though I will always promote to my fellow bonus hunter!

**bb1web** · 14 August 2007, 10:58 pm

Hi all, (D)

well... I can only say my experience. I tried every angle. I point to Shane's post as my credibility.

the fact is .... what he said. Yes I know people who've made it promoting no deposit.... freebie offers.

but the really good players are few and far between using this method.

newbs..... yes ......I felt that was correct to target. i was only hoping of saving them from losing interest because they'd inevitably encounter more non-producing players targeting such keywords .... as they would targeting otherwise.

its hard..... probably harder now than ever ..... to make it targeting such keywords.

true quality players are much more likely to seek other keyword targets.

I stand by my statement. I have invited further competition by saying so. But I did so .... thinking of them. I assure you it was in no way a ploy trying to lesson any competition because i am targeting such keywords.

**mojo** · 15 August 2007, 1:46 am

Here’s the thing. There is no right or wrong here. The key is to find your niche.

I am a player. I was a player before I knew what an affiliate was. I talk to players. I feel I have an advantage there. I myself am a proud freebie hunter lol. I once cashed out $1000 on a $20 match bonus. When I started playing I found all the freebies. I loved barney at capt cooks. He would write me “Ahoy Matey” and I could banter with him and build a relationship. From the freebie I became a VIP Depositing player (and got a royal straight flush tyvm). While maybe 4 out of 5 are freebie hunters, there is ONE who is not. Diceman knows this. I have spoken to players who tell me if the freebie doesn’t go through well, then, they are outta there. Make no mistake, players test online casinos too! It is the point of contact that determines whether it is a worthy casino much like a first impression. Just like when you walk into a land casino. You want that special touch and a point of contact. Without that it is just another place. Players aren’t stupid. To discount someone for taking a freebie is cutting out a valuable part of your business.

but the really good players are few and far between using this method

.

With all due respect, I have to disagree. I would be out of business without these players.
Not to say the advice here isn’t valuable and correct. It is not a matter of right or wrong. Simply what your niche is and what you can relate to. You must believe in what you are marketing.

Like I said in my interview with the GPWA (plug),

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/gpwa-time...ed-170843.html

Because something doesn’t work for you doesn’t make it “bad”. Just means you have to find your niche.

Respectfully,

**Shane** · 15 August 2007, 3:15 am

Originally Posted by kaus

I am working on a casino side of my site and I won't be advertising any free spins, free hour nonsense. I have played that garbage myself and once reading the very fine print as to what you need to do to actually get your winnings seems almost next to near impossible...in short going broke first.

Hey there Kaus,

I wouldn't discredit the free time offers so quickly, in essence the come across as free offers which yes has the eye of the bonus hunters but also allows some smaller legit players the chance to try out a casino before committing financially.

The upside to the Free Time offers is that for both you as the affiliate and for the casino it is a NO COST promotion... regular free cash offers result in Service and Usage (S&U) to the Software Providers and usually a fairly bulky Non Cash (NCI) line item for the affiliate (if you get a mass influx of players) with very few strong depositing players coming in to shed that NCI line.

In the Free Time offers once a player completes their time and purchases to claim their winnings (on RiverBelle this can be as high as $200 with an additional $100 when they deposit $50) they fall into a Buy/Get pattern.

If they choose to move on and not take the offer they don't add anything to your NCI tally or the casino S&U costs.

Shane

**mynuw** · 15 August 2007, 8:12 am

I have definately played my share of free chips. Newbies to online gambling do use them to "TEST" the Casinos before purchasing but MOST free chip players are just that, Free Chip players!

I also think that another factor in promoting a FREE offer and getting depositing players from the FREE offers is Traffic and where that traffic is coming from.

I use a handful of free offers on my website and do get depositing players,but I also find that I have just as many depositing/repeat players at Casinos who have never offered a Free Chip.

There are so many pros and cons to the Free offers and to use them or not....Be selective, dont make the Free offers the main focus and test the waters.

I know a couple of webmasters who do well with them, but they also do well without them too!

**MichaelCorfman** · 15 August 2007, 10:44 am

I thought the discussion in this thread was interesting. It served as the inspiration for this week's poll, which can be viewed at www.gpwa.org/forum/what-rule-applies-revenue-players-your-site-80-20-something-else-172129.html

Thanks bb1web.

Michael

**ck8795** · 15 August 2007, 11:28 am

Ok now giving it more thought on other points made that were personal and also fell into place with my own previous expereinces. I can agree that yes I was a bonus hunter...free money...and

freeroll *****.

I can probably name off 50+ forums that I once belonged to..to play games ( I know embarassed)

This was before I actually began to play poker. See there is a difference...there are those who are there because it's something to do...than there are those who actually want to learn the game...improve theirs and in turn win some money while they play.

In the beginning I will admit I was aterrible player which was probably why I could lose each and every time I played. It didn't matter what I lost especially ring games. It took me time to find my own aproach and to actually pay attention to what everyone was talking about but I am now not a winning player and ,aking huge bucks but I can hold my own. I have placed first in quite a few MTT"S if not final table....and have adjusted to playing Limit poker

So I can't discredit these things completly because thsi is what started me.

**bb1web** · 15 August 2007, 8:57 pm

Hi all,

I think some have missed the point i was making in the start.

that those just starting out may become discouraged if they target freebie chasers. Yes... as I readily admitted .... there are those that make money targeting bonus chasers.

but if don't get lucky .... and see 6 months pass and only see a lot of signups ... but no real income ..... you'll get discouraged.

targeting match bonus.... some kind of deposit / then get a bonus offer .... you're much more likely to see positive end results.

you've got to do a lot of quantity to see a really good player when targeting freebie offers.

I never said you won't make money targeting freebies. I said this is the likely result of such targets. I still stand by that.

most newbies .... even when targeting freebie offers ...... don't get the kind of traffic that will have the quantity to produce the kind of players to give them the desire to continue.

hope that clears up a bit.

**diceman** · 16 August 2007, 1:33 am

One of the big reasons it does not do as well is something that mojo said "I cashed out $1000 from $20". Well now usually casinos have put in these tricky little terms to screw you and it is not as clean cut and open like it was in the past. This is something I have put a hard thought into recently and could change the scope of a lot of what I do.
I also wanted to point out... because I did not in my first post that the bulk of the money I have earned is from "non freebie" sites but I attribute that to allowing that player to get bit by the bug.
This is where I start to sound a bit funny but its true.... IMO lots of those people have never gambled online.. so when they get those free bonuses and they run out it leaves them with a small bite mark I just gave their ass lol! Thats right they got bit by the gambling bug and now they go on a damn streak of gambling... first signing up with all of the deposit bonuses and then perhaps spending lots of money in gambling entertainment. Where do they go to get that list?? my site hopefully... after all its where they got all the free stuff so why not see what else I have

. Bottom line... people love free ****... period. but in gambling... is it really free? or just a way to get you to start enjoying gambling?

I do understand a bit of what you are saying though BB1. If someone expects to make it out here just by having free offers to bonus hunters. Without doing the proper homework on how to convert this player. Then yes, more than likely they will fail. So your very right on that respect..

One thing to consider however is why not shoot for a freebie keyword? If you get listed well for that word then more than likely you will get others. For example way back I had the #1 position for "online casinos" in yahoo. but it was from getting the #1 listing for "free online casinos" and "free casinos". Your right... the competition for words like this are stupid to say the least and for very little quality traffic. Someone would (just starting) be better off to try for something like "casino chips" or "bet slots online" something like that.

By all means I should have supported everything you said from the start... anything to get them off my words lol!

Also, a warning to the newbs.... dont do what all the other yahoo's are doing and stealing my "getting started" info.. those people are in for a rude ride anyway and I dont want you to be part of it lol. Steal the concept but not the content.

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