Is mining worth it?

[Sherlock]

Back to the topic:
I think I can be mining BTC in future and I think it will be very good business and better than today.

In few years BTC will be the world reserve currency and maybe the only anchor in dire world. Mining will be restricted in many areas, because energy will be nr. 1 problem of the world. So that everything is good for mining: if you have access to the cheap energy in the unrestricted part of the world.

Everything this incl war with Russia was crystal clear years ago.

So I went looking for the place where I can build some power plants without eye of beholder on my ass. I found such a place, but there are logistic problems, because the only free space on this overcrowded planet is in really remote areas where is nobody and where is no infrastructure.

So my run to cheap energy for mining means that I must first buy the properties, make the infrastructure, build some houses etc.

I believe that this is the only sustainable business plan how to do cryptomining. Buying the miner and doing the mining itself is really the last part that is irrelevant and compared to other problems it is a piece of cake then.

The crucial part is the long term access to the cheap energy. The expression "long term" is important. There are areas with cheap energy like it was China or Russia, but miners lost really big money there. And as we will all face limits on energy consumption in near future, then ask yourself: who will your government support? fat, ugly, rich bitcoin mining capitalist or poor black single disabled mother who is freezing in her tiny apartment because of evil Putin?

[Rolls]

I give my hat off to China they have played a long game and are beginning to make their move to be the dominant currency.

As history shows the dominant currency is the empire of the time and the $ is on the way out, it had its near 100 year run just like the empires of Britain, France, Spain, Ottoman before it. It was built on the value of oil, coca cola and mcdonalds the last two being examples of products worldwide that are bought in local currencies before being changed into $ and shipped back to US. Money coming in creates the wealth.

Every empire had this similar system from Dutch trading company to the East Indian trading company... A private British company created to control the resources of one country India, and we think Blackrock and Vanguard are recent constructs.

Countries that EU and USA had forgotten about is where China made its mark, building major infrastructure roads, rail, ports at a low cost in Africa Asia, Latam.
Using banking system one country pays china in $ and it takes weeks for the cheque to clear. They probably had to borrow that $ at a high rate so they pay more in the long run, not to mention if the country is in some turmoil or $ is fluctuating etc.

Now, China with their CBDC called DCEP. Digital Currency Electronic Payment can bypass the $ and get these countries to pay with DCEP.

Payment will be instant. No waiting weeks for payments to clear, and just like any business, instant payment without the need to wait is the best.
and remember the coke example, money coming in from other countries is what creates the wealth.

Sometimes I go off on a tangent...

what I was trying to say is I agree with @Sherlock BTC will be a currency reserve but it is going to have a huge battle with Chinas DCEP

[Rolls]

Because I am new I think I cant link it, but for anyone that is interested more about CBDC...

"US to Create CBDC Global Monopoly using SWIFT"

just copy above inc quote marks and search google.

Heresy Financial is the youtube channel.


then watch Jamie Dimon - CEO of JPmorgan
"A Hurricane Is Coming - Brace Yourselves" | Jamie Dimon

the guy who hates crypto yet his bank was one of the first major banks to get involved in crypto

the guy who detests crypto yet his bank is the first bank in the metaverse.

then think about what warren buffet says about bitcoin.......he thinks its rat poison squared
but then he goes and invests heavily in a bank that offers BTC as a major source of income.

Its not what they say that is important, it is what they do.

[tufty]

BTC will be a currency reserve but it is going to have a huge battle with Chinas DCEP

You cant compare the two - they are different species. One is centralized with no cap (ie: a digital fiat). The other is decentralized and there will only ever be 21million.

If you make fiat digital, it is still fiat - with all the same failings.

[Sherlock]

I give my hat off to China they have played a long game and are beginning to make their move to be the dominant currency.

As history shows the dominant currency is the empire of the time and the $ is on the way out, it had its near 100 year run just like the empires of Britain, France, Spain, Ottoman before it. It was built on the value of oil, coca cola and mcdonalds the last two being examples of products worldwide that are bought in local currencies before being changed into $ and shipped back to US. Money coming in creates the wealth.

Every empire had this similar system from Dutch trading company to the East Indian trading company... A private British company created to control the resources of one country India, and we think Blackrock and Vanguard are recent constructs.

Countries that EU and USA had forgotten about is where China made its mark, building major infrastructure roads, rail, ports at a low cost in Africa Asia, Latam.
Using banking system one country pays china in $ and it takes weeks for the cheque to clear. They probably had to borrow that $ at a high rate so they pay more in the long run, not to mention if the country is in some turmoil or $ is fluctuating etc.

Now, China with their CBDC called DCEP. Digital Currency Electronic Payment can bypass the $ and get these countries to pay with DCEP.

Payment will be instant. No waiting weeks for payments to clear, and just like any business, instant payment without the need to wait is the best.
and remember the coke example, money coming in from other countries is what creates the wealth.

Sometimes I go off on a tangent...

what I was trying to say is I agree with @Sherlock BTC will be a currency reserve but it is going to have a huge battle with Chinas DCEP

In every country I am in (Europe and Latam) payments (normal payments, not extremely big) are already instant.

The big payments are not instant because there is the AML.

I am 1000% sure CBDC is not possible for macroeconomic reasons, because it undermines fractional banking that is the base of our world.

Pero bueno...

Let's assume that CBDC will be a thing. Let's assume that banks cease to exist and there will be just a central bank and that will handle all payments. Then even that megabank will have the AML laws and probably even more strict and therefore no change in instantness of payments that already does exist.

[Sherlock]

You cant compare the two - they are different species. One is centralized with no cap (ie: a digital fiat). The other is decentralized and there will only ever be 21million.

If you make fiat digital, it is still fiat - with all the same failings.

CBDC currency is not like fiat.

It lacks the fractional banking. Only one part of fiat, that is called monetary base, exists under CBDC (all CBDC money are monetary base).

This is the main reason why central banks will never want CBDC, because it undermines their ability to influence monetary policy through their orders to commercial banks, which are part of monetary policy.

This is why CBCD is just a fringe experiment and always will be.

CBDC money is maybe appealing theme for doomsayers who can circlejerk about all balances and names in one database etc., but it would be totally impractical tool for any central bank.

They keep talking about it, because world is taking it seriously. That is all.

Our system is simply based that individuals and companies (with few exceptions) do not have accounts at central bank and central bank for a reason does not want to have those accounts.

And even more importantly: allowing individuals to have accounts at central bank, which is what CBDC is, has nothing to do with crypto. It would be a significant change in monetary policy and monetary system, which would lead to death of all banks. In other words it would be a banking socialism. In many socialistic countries there was just one bank - the central one.

[big fish]

what a bs, tulips were a thing in 2013, then for real boomers in 2017, in 2021 run even the most awkward ppl did not mention it

but 2022 crypto bubble???? 2022 is a cryptowinter that anyone with more than half neuron was able to predict

it is just the nature of bitcoin that it has supply shocks every 4 years and nature of shtcoins that they follow bitcoin and nature of people who are surprised by everything cyclical

crypto is now near bottom or at bottom already, but now it will rise with inflation; so most people will be wrong again with their predictions because nobody saw btc in running inflation/hyperinflation

i lost faith in bitcoin already. if you're such a big believer you might be interested in my domain for sale: bitcoin.casino

[Rolls]

You cant compare the two - they are different species. One is centralized with no cap (ie: a digital fiat). The other is decentralized and there will only ever be 21million.

If you make fiat digital, it is still fiat - with all the same failings.

In every country I am in (Europe and Latam) payments (normal payments, not extremely big) are already instant.

The big payments are not instant because there is the AML.

I am 1000% sure CBDC is not possible for macroeconomic reasons, because it undermines fractional banking that is the base of our world.

Pero bueno...

Let's assume that CBDC will be a thing. Let's assume that banks cease to exist and there will be just a central bank and that will handle all payments. Then even that megabank will have the AML laws and probably even more strict and therefore no change in instantness of payments that already does exist.

Its not only about speed of transactions, its about how is it paid. China imo wants to get paid in DCEP from all countries in the belt and road scheme. (thats a lot of countries that may not be able to access cheap $ loans)

This means no more $ transactions. no more bank to bank transactions. These countries may not have access to cheap $ loans but they don't have to get loans in $ anymore. Countries have to buy Yuan so China gets paid in their digital Yuan..

I cant say for certain what is going to happen, but wars have been fought over less. One of the best performing currencies at the moment....Rouble. Putin wants his oil and gas paid for in Rouble, inflation rising costs of everything going up, next winter do you think eurozone will say no to cheap gas?

[Rolls]

Now, if one thing history teaches us, it that it repeats itself over and over, there can only be one reserve currency. whether that is a hybrid cbdc, bitcoin, yuan, $ or even USDC

I mistakenly thought it could be XRP due to them building the frameworks for banking institutions around the world.


The problem with crypto is my mind changes with every bit of info I get, which is fascinating and annoying in equal measure.

[dilantmediath]

Yes it is worth it if you mine the right coin in the next bull run!

ETH2.0 cannot mine anymore, but if you mine now the hashrate may be not worth it.

If you don't mind invest first and sell later in the next bull run, then it's worth it.

For now, it's not worth the mine for a while since it has the recession.

[xecutable]

Yes it is worth it if you mine the right coin in the next bull run!

ETH2.0 cannot mine anymore, but if you mine now the hashrate may be not worth it.

If you don't mind invest first and sell later in the next bull run, then it's worth it.

For now, it's not worth the mine for a while since it has the recession.

Worth it would imply that you survive until the next bull run. If you can't cover your expenses right now and perhaps for the next 2-3 years, I wouldn't call it worth it.

Right now one of the most profitable cards for mining is RTX3060 and the payback period is roughly 67 MONTHS. Unless you have some untapped source of free energy, stacked cash to the point that you don't even need to mine, but you are doing for I don't know fun, it probably isn't worth doing it.

Those who are already heavily invested will continue of course, they have enough coins and cash to survive.

[junfranciscosantos11]

Cryptocurrency mining can be a lucrative activity in some circumstances, but it can also be risky and require significant investments in hardware and electrical power. The profit potential of cryptocurrency mining depends on several factors, such as the price of the cryptocurrency on the market, the difficulty of mining, the cost of electricity, the efficiency of the mining hardware and the block rewards.
In the past, when cryptocurrencies were in their early phases and less popular, mining was more accessible and the rewards were higher. However, as cryptocurrencies gained popularity and more people started mining them, the difficulty of mining increased, making the activity more challenging and less profitable for some miners.
In addition, it is important to consider that the volatility of cryptocurrency prices can significantly affect miners' profits. If the price drops substantially after mining, miners may end up with losses or with a lower revenue than expected.
Another point to consider is the environmental impact of cryptocurrency mining, as it consumes a significant amount of electricity. In some places, where energy is expensive or comes from non-renewable sources, the costs can be even higher.

[kwwriting]

It's far from drying up. It's still gaining traction and plenty of it.

[onlinebetdotcom]

If you think Bitcoin might increase in price then sure. Never got into.

[Shin Hasegawa]

I would say that nowadays if you don't possess a factory in your basement, it is not worth the costs.
ROI is just not good.

[Sherlock]

If you think Bitcoin might increase in price then sure. Never got into.

That is exactly what mining is not good for.

If you think that Bitcoin will increase, then just buy BTC or hold BTC.

If you think you can mine under the price of miners, then the mining makes sense. This option means that you have either access to cheap electricity or cheap hardware

If a person can not mine as cheaply as other miners (almost everyone reading this thread) and that person believes in BTC, it should buy BTC directly.

Conversely, it makes a lot of sense mining BTC even if you think it might tank. If you have the cheap electricity then it is just an arbitrage with minimal exposure to BTC.

What I just wrote is not a rocket science. Logic of basic school. Yet so many absolutely useless posts about it. Amazing.

[tufty]

Yet so many absolutely useless posts about it. Amazing.

Very true. But this forum might have better quality posts if signature links were banned. Spammers paradise.

[allfreechips]

Also mined BTC is never taxable in the US, so if you mine and it grows this is all tax free. Anyone who trusts in and countries digital currency only need to look at Canada and what they did to the truckers, if you go against the gov, your currency is turned off in a flash...

once oil is traded in bitcoin or any decentralized currency the world will be set free.

[Takeru Suzuki]

I recently took some time to learn about mining crypto and even though my knowledge on this topic is very limited - it seems that every 6k $ one puts into their mining set up would return around 200$ per month for most popular cryptos. Considering the current price of course.

Likely the the price will grow significantly in the coming years, but still - wouldn't it be more profitable to just hold the same money as crypto? Given the hardware you purchase will gradually deteriorate.

In Japan until beginning 2022, i had heard some people saying it's worth mining if you r cost cautious about your electricity bill etc but those guys who were saying good thing about mining stopped talking about it ever since maybe the war started and gas / electricity got expensive.

[Isaac]

If there is a separate room for mining farms, uninterrupted electricity and knowledge in this topic, why not. In any case, this activity will be profitable