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  1. #41
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    To respond further

    I'm I reading this wrong or is someone not telling the truth?
    Yes - someone is telling fibs it appears. I will be following up re this with Mr Affiliate. I do not think my account manager would have told me this if they were not told this by senior management.

    As in, the server where they (operator) put the data on after they (operator) checked and corrected it?

    In other words, the data the operator delivers to you is the data the operator wants you to display to affiliates? You have no direct access to real time deposit/withdrawal data?
    I am hoping that NetRefer can respond to this and clarify. The important issue here is - Are operators provided with the opportunity to manipulate data. We have already seen they have no compunction in not being transparent.

    I am thankful that NetRefer are being very proactive and getting involved in the discussion. I guess i am just wanting additional clarity and confirmation re exactly what can and cant be done with the software. We are the ultimate end users of it, so i guess we deserve to know.

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  3. #42
    LukeC is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    The important issue here is - Are operators provided with the opportunity to manipulate data.
    The way "some" gambling affiliate softwares (I note the below contradicts what Netrefer have claimed on the previous page) work is that once per day, the operator sends files to the software provider covering the previous day's activity. Generally there are two files: one of new registrations (including saying which affiliate, if any, to attribute the customer to), the other of the day's customer activity, broken down by customer (which would include deposit amounts, gross revenue and similar parameters). What is contained in these files would vary based on what the affiliate software can support, what the operator is able to import, and what the operator wants to import.

    The software provider's job is to represent this data in its platform. It can calculate values such as Net Revenue based on rules and the data it is provided. For example, I might tell the affiliate software, that I want Net Revenue to be calculated and thus displayed as the following formula: (((Turnover - Payout)* 85%) - (2.5% * Total Deposits) - (£1.00 * Number of Withdrawals)) (I've made those figures up, just to give you an idea of what happens - but essentially it can be whatever the operator wants and will vary depending on their backends).

    The second job of the software is then to calculate affiliates' commissions based on that data.

    There is no "live" feed of data between affiliate management platforms and operators' back ends (that I'm aware of, there may be platforms I haven't worked with that do this, and it's plausible that since I've worked with some that have since brought it in, but I very much doubt it). Thus, the software provider can only go by what data is in the files that are sent.

    What all operators should be doing is automating the process by which their data files are sent to their software provider (they're usually delivered either via FTP or email (whereby attachments are automatically imported into the system)), so that there is no human interaction with the files.

    In reality, there is nothing that stops someone within the operator changing the numbers before they are sent to the software provider (with that said, that would have to be an institutional decision by the operator. It's not realistically plausibly that a rogue affiliate manager changes the files without anyone knowing - they would never have the level of access required to do it).

    The software providers have no visibility over whether what they are sent or not is accurate compared to what the firms are seeing.
    Last edited by LukeC; 21 January 2017 at 7:20 pm.
    Head of Affiliates at Digital Fuel

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeC View Post
    .... (with that said, that would have to be an institutional decision by the operator. It's not realistically plausibly that a rogue affiliate manager changes the files without anyone knowing - they would never have the level of access required to do it)...

    Just a polite reminder for all here

    So even at a huge affiliate program (where on hopes everything is double/triple locked down to secure 100% accuracy) it is possible for an individual manager to do "tricky things". Bear in mind we are not talking an IT or BI department here "just" an affiliate manager had access do this....

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  7. #44
    LukeC is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Quote Originally Posted by affy View Post
    Just a polite reminder for all here

    So even at a huge affiliate program (where on hopes everything is double/triple locked down to secure 100% accuracy) it is possible for an individual manager to do "tricky things". Bear in mind we are not talking an IT or BI department here "just" an affiliate manager had access do this....
    As far as I understand, they've not interfered with the process I outlined - they've done that through the use of a software feature ("retagging") that they should have never been allowed access to. I think it's important to keep the credibility of data transfer vs use of a software feature separate.

    Regardless, if they had interfered in the process, all you can take is that the operator definitely did not lock down access to their files and instead gave it to an affiliate manager who should never have been involved in the process - which would be an institutional decision - because that would mean the process is not automated and instead would work as: file generated -> file sent to "affiliate manager" -> file sent to software provider.

    If the file generated and sent to the software provider automatically, there's no access for the affiliate manager to change it.
    Head of Affiliates at Digital Fuel

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  9. #45
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    If the affiliate manager works on a commission like the rest of us I doubt he/she would want to fiddle the stats. Ultimately it would be the casino manager or casino owners who would have the temptation do do so.

  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeC View Post
    As far as I understand, they've not interfered with the process I outlined - they've done that through the use of a software feature ("retagging") that they should have never been allowed access to. I think it's important to keep the credibility of data transfer vs use of a software feature separate..

    Fully agree, just pointing out that if data is corrupted before it is transferred there is nothing the Netrefers, Myaffiliate setc. of this world can do. Some affiliates still rely on the trustworthiness of the affiliate backend software provider. Which is nothing more than advanced excelsheets. It can only display what has been put in by others...
    Last edited by affy; 22 January 2017 at 10:51 am.

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftDog View Post
    If the affiliate manager works on a commission like the rest of us I doubt he/she would want to fiddle the stats. Ultimately it would be the casino manager or casino owners who would have the temptation do do so.
    If the affiliate manager has an affiliate account not on his name and re-tags organic traffic (which is the case here) he gets commission on additional traffic that he never would have been paid for anyway. So yes there is an incentive for the affiliate manager.

    Obviously in this case one has to believe the official statement of Betsson that only organic traffic was re-tagged....we will never know if genuine affiliate traffic was re-tagged with tags of the stealing affiliate managers fake affiliate account.

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PO_NetRefer View Post
    Kindly see our feedback below:

    - You may not see any deposit data (depending if setting is set on/off) only if you are not rewarded on deposits. Otherwise you will see all deposit data. The system does not allow you to filter deposits if you are rewarded on this criteria. Our system does not allow manipulation of data in any form. The data is processed and goes through several sanity checks to ensure its integrity before it is imported and displayed on the interface.
    - We are directly integrated to the operatorís data providers or DWH thus receiving the data from the source. If the data does not 'pass' the integrity checks it is rejected and resent by the data provider / DWH.
    - There are different types of data transfer protocol methods including API's.

    I trust that the above addresses your queries. Feedback received directly from affiliates is always valued with the objective to provide you with the best possible user experience. We have a number of exciting enhancements to the affiliate interface in our pipeline.
    A simple solution, for a start, is to remove that setting from the core.
    Which sanity and integrity checks are we talking about?

    Thanks.

  13. #49
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    MARCAapuestas - using Nethive not NetRefer

  14. #50
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    Hi guys,


    Laura from Mr Affiliate here.


    We've spoken with Net Refer to clear this up and what Neville from Net Refer has said is correct about this feature.


    Here at Mr Affiliate we value the views of our affiliates and we are all for transparency and clarity. For that reason we are now working with Net Refer to enable the deposits column on all commission models. We're hoping to have this done within the next few days.


    Thanks to everyone here and to Net Refer for helping us to get this implemented so quickly.




    Laura

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  16. #51
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    I saw earlier in the thread that Rank Affiliates are listed as a client of Netrefer.

    This is correct and the software is used by affiliates of our Mecca Bingo and Grosvenor Casino brands.

    Cumulative Deposit data is visible to our affiliates in both the Product Figures and Customer reports regardless of an affiliates reward plan.
    Consultant Affiliate Manager
    anthony@tag-media.org
    https://www.tag.media/

  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraMrGreen View Post
    Hi guys,


    Laura from Mr Affiliate here.


    We've spoken with Net Refer to clear this up and what Neville from Net Refer has said is correct about this feature.


    Here at Mr Affiliate we value the views of our affiliates and we are all for transparency and clarity. For that reason we are now working with Net Refer to enable the deposits column on all commission models. We're hoping to have this done within the next few days.


    Thanks to everyone here and to Net Refer for helping us to get this implemented so quickly.




    Laura
    Good to see that some operators (even though not being a sponsor here) still take input of affiliates serious!
    Last edited by affy; 26 January 2017 at 5:31 am.

  18. #53
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Good to see that some operators (even though not being a sponsor here) still take input of affiliates serious!
    I totally agree and as a matter of principle, i have amended my links to point to both of these properties. I can't say how impressed i am with Laura and Hodgey as ever is a legend. Well done guys.

    As for those Net Refer Programs sticking to your guns and not displaying relevant data - so be it. You wont get a single click from me. If that is how you treat your marketing partners - i dont want to know what you would treat players like.

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  20. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocreditor View Post
    MARCAapuestas - using Nethive not NetRefer
    Thank you, I updated the list.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
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  22. #55
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    Thanks for this very comprehensive list!

  23. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    I totally agree and as a matter of principle, i have amended my links to point to both of these properties...
    Have done the same for MrGreen (nothing against HodgeyBoy but both brands are not for my country)

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  25. #57
    Romboud Casino is offline Public Member
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    Unibet does not show deposits. Not showing deposits is suspicious. It suprises me that 'affiliate trusted' brands like Royal Panda and Leo Vegas do this too. Did we got screwed over there too?

    Have to say that even when they display deposits it's not transparent. The numbers of deposits can be manipulated too. The only way to move forward in creating a fair market is by having independent audits. Posted about it before: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/introduci...ry-228509.html

  26. #58
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    Hi Anthony,

    please update your list ( https://www.gpwa.org/forum/netrefer-...tml#post836155 ) regarding Quasar Affiliates.

    After I spoke with them public in their sponsor area they will leave the no-deposit-stats-conspiracy-group on 1. February 2017 and provide deposit stats to all webmasters.

    Source: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/quasar-ex...tml#post836838

    Leopold

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  28. #59
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    Programs would get so much more mileage out of affiliates if they were more transparent.

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  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    Hi Anthony,

    please update your list ( https://www.gpwa.org/forum/netrefer-...tml#post836155 ) regarding Quasar Affiliates.

    After I spoke with them public in their sponsor area they will leave the no-deposit-stats-conspiracy-group on 1. February 2017 and provide deposit stats to all webmasters.

    Source: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/quasar-ex...tml#post836838

    Leopold
    Thank you, I have updated the list to include changes from Quasar, OVO and Mr. Affiliate
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
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