Is SEO even possible? 2

[Ares]

You know it well guys. None is gonna give a link to gambling portal out of his good heart or for its viral article.
So what are we referring at when we speak about off-page SEO?
Is blackhat the only way to go? And the possible penalties? A fact of life? Are new gambling sites completely doomed?
What is your take on this?

[universal4]

My hope is that more and more blackhat techniques are not only exposed, but that all the engines find ways to reduce the positive effects of those techniques.

Rick
Universal4

[Ares]

My hope is that more and more blackhat techniques are not only exposed, but that all the engines find ways to reduce the positive effects of those techniques.
Rick
Universal4

Rick,
If you consider the huge amount of rankings manipulation that takes place with all these (thousands) small and big SEO companies and blackhat webmasters, search engines are doing a pretty decent job in filtering out spam sites.
In the gambling field things are worse because the competitiveness and the subject makes natural link building even harder.
One way or the other old sites have build some links over the years, but I wonder what off-page SEO one could do in a new site...

[universal4]

Separating good techniques both off-page as well as on-page and any blackhat techniques are two different discussions I think.

As an example you mention natural link building, this will pay off in the long term and help with stability long term, where blackhat techniques and taking a shotgun approach to link building might help in the short term but could be damaging to the site in the future.

Any technique that could be considered blackhat could easily have bad consequences later, depending on what approach you take.

Rick
Universal4

[pokeraussie]

Webmasters are definitely more link thrifty in the gambling industry, but of course SEO is still possible for gambling websites. Whether you want to call it whitehat, greyhat or blackhat, SEO is all about achieving the same goal - generating more organic search traffic.

[DaftDog]

The term 'Natural link building' is a big misnomer and is in fact borderline black-hat seo, yet most website owners do it. The best links to receive are organic links but they are extremely rare in this industry.

There are some who believe that good quality, relevant content trumps any link building.

[Rostick]

I think one thing is always forgotten when we`re all moaning that we can't get links due to our gambling content: competitors won`t get them either, so it`s a fair game. But I get your point, old websites did get some over time, industry leaders get some as well.

My site is pretty new, launched in mid 2013. Used some careful link exchange at first with decent quality websites, wrote on a few forums like the GPWA with a signature, commented on some blogs, tried to build something on Social Media and so on. Wrote quality content, inter-linked on site, tried to use keywords in the best way. Slowly I began to rank decently for a few keywords, I began being included by a couple of content aggregators, I began getting some links from different betting websites.

So, until a medium level, I`d say we are not doomed. Getting a couple of thousands hits per day, making a fair wage, I think everybody who puts in the work can get there. Unfortunately I can`t speak about getting to the higher levels. I`m struggling to find answers myself.

[wonderpunter]

Content + Rank Brain are a big part of certain industries, I personally think gambling fits well into that, Penguin is coming soon and 96% at least of most portals have all brought, exchanged or manually built backlinks violating most of the guidelines on the way, My personal thought is that our industry will see the biggest clear out ever once the new update hits and sites. In answer to your question new gambling sites are not doomed but the days of pushing any old tut with a table and a few hundred backlinks are limited

[pokeraussie]

Rank Brain?

[martinseomcgarry]

Blackhat is not the only way to go - but unfortunately it is still a strategy that many undertake, but yes it 100% comes with consequences and can likely end up in a penalty. Churn and burn blackhat is still pretty prominent in the gambling sector = Fast ranking gains until a penalty catches up with your site and then overnight its gone.

If you start a new site be patient and make it a great site before thinking of having great offsite SEO... also consider this, if you launch a new site now, there are already hundreds of existing websites on Google in your niche - so why do you deserve to outrank them straight away.

If you do blackhat don't stake your business or your life on that website!

If you go organic be patient and build a great site

[RacingJim]

Content + Rank Brain are a big part of certain industries, I personally think gambling fits well into that, Penguin is coming soon and 96% at least of most portals have all brought, exchanged or manually built backlinks violating most of the guidelines on the way, My personal thought is that our industry will see the biggest clear out ever once the new update hits and sites. In answer to your question new gambling sites are not doomed but the days of pushing any old tut with a table and a few hundred backlinks are limited

I think this is probably more your wish than any expectation of reality. I agree the table + few hundred links days are over already though.

[wonderpunter]

I think this is probably more your wish than any expectation of reality. I agree the table + few hundred links days are over already though.

Why? how many natrual backlinks are actually gained in this industry? there is no way those thinly filled portals with a table get thousands of backlinks naturally, also very few sites link out do follow unless its a mutual exchange, hacked or sold, it makes sense that technology evolves and those that stick with the guidelines are rewarded and those that are not lose ranking..

[olson1981]

Why? how many natrual backlinks are actually gained in this industry? there is no way those thinly filled portals with a table get thousands of backlinks naturally, also very few sites link out do follow unless its a mutual exchange, hacked or sold, it makes sense that technology evolves and those that stick with the guidelines are rewarded and those that are not lose ranking..

Google isn't at a stage where it can detect paid links, how could google detect whether a link has been paid for on a site which is based within a similar niche e.g. how could they tell that someone had bought a link on a football forum to a sports betting site.

If your prediction is correct then surely we will see the likes of freebets.uk dropping off google at any time soon. A quick look at their backlink profile and its easy to see that they have clearly paid for their links to get on sites.

Any update is probably geared towards the use of PBN's, Sape and GSA spam. Where as paid links of relevant blogs unless google goes about contacting them individually to see if they are selling how else would they know?

[pokeraussie]

Not only is it impossible for Google to know if money changed hands, I doubt they care about paid links that much, because it's expensive to buy links on quality sites that will actually help rankings (making it difficult to easily manipulate the SERPs).

On the other hand, as mentioned above, stuff like PBN's they certainly would worry about, because it's inexpensive and easy to get a lot of links.

[RacingJim]

Why? how many natrual backlinks are actually gained in this industry? there is no way those thinly filled portals with a table get thousands of backlinks naturally, also very few sites link out do follow unless its a mutual exchange, hacked or sold, it makes sense that technology evolves and those that stick with the guidelines are rewarded and those that are not lose ranking..

As somebody who has stated in other posts that you are a 'white hat' kind of guy, I think you are seriously invested in wanting there to be some massive big algo change where Penguin comes in and blitzes everything. All I'm saying is, Google hasn't shown any signs at this moment that something like that will happen, so at this moment it seems more like your wish than based on a real signal from Google.

[RacingJim]

Google isn't at a stage where it can detect paid links, how could google detect whether a link has been paid for on a site which is based within a similar niche e.g. how could they tell that someone had bought a link on a football forum to a sports betting site.

If your prediction is correct then surely we will see the likes of freebets.uk dropping off google at any time soon. A quick look at their backlink profile and its easy to see that they have clearly paid for their links to get on sites.

Any update is probably geared towards the use of PBN's, Sape and GSA spam. Where as paid links of relevant blogs unless google goes about contacting them individually to see if they are selling how else would they know?

Interesting point you make about freebets.co.uk and .com (although i also see the newer freebets.uk is also ranking highly)

They are prime examples of old ways SEO, but because they've been around ages they seem to avoid the same harsh rules/filters that us newer guys have to try and play by.

[wonderpunter]

Google isn't at a stage where it can detect paid links, how could google detect whether a link has been paid for on a site which is based within a similar niche e.g. how could they tell that someone had bought a link on a football forum to a sports betting site.

I think google has enough data and the know how to calculate it/s being abused, e.g 32 high pr links all going to a page with top 10 bookies listed nearly always with anchor text, it-s common knowledge that these are nearly all paid for, exchanged or injected and with every update it get's tougher, perhaps penguin integrated into rankbrain like panda? of course you can believe it will be the same update as usual and won't make much difference but a large % of the top results should not be there and I think it will be addressed, btw how many of those top10s are PBN's? quite a few,, I will stick with my prediction though in guessing we are almost at a stage where you will be judged on content and not links as the larger part of a ranking signal.

[wonderpunter]

As somebody who has stated in other posts that you are a 'white hat' kind of guy, I think you are seriously invested in wanting there to be some massive big algo change where Penguin comes in and blitzes everything. All I'm saying is, Google hasn't shown any signs at this moment that something like that will happen, so at this moment it seems more like your wish than based on a real signal from Google.

The signals I have seen myself is that you don't need back links to rank top 3 for many high value keywords, and yes I would love to see those who cut corners disappear and give way to some new blood who actually build great pages but end up going bust or giving up because the system has been abused for so long.

[RacingJim]

The signals I have seen myself is that you don't need back links to rank top 3 for many high value keywords, and yes I would love to see those who cut corners disappear and give way to some new blood who actually build great pages but end up going bust or giving up because the system has been abused for so long.

I don't know what niches you're involved in. But lets take the free bets niche. I don't see one site in the top 20 for most of the high value, high traffic words that hasn't done some kind of link building.

[olson1981]

Interesting point you make about freebets.co.uk and .com (although i also see the newer freebets.uk is also ranking highly)

They are prime examples of old ways SEO, but because they've been around ages they seem to avoid the same harsh rules/filters that us newer guys have to try and play by.

I was actually referring to the .uk one and not the older ones, was only started last year and now ranks first for the free bets keyword and they've done it pretty quick which is a nice example of a new domain but old seo technique of HQ paid link building still working today.