Pay on time

[Storebuilder]

Thought I'd chime in.

Rick - you are so right - if it's not required why is it in the T&C's?

Then again with so many affiliate agreements stating that they can be ended by either party what's the point of having any agreement at all?

I pulled this out of a random T&C:

1.2 We may change all or any part of this Agreement at any time. Notice of any changes will be given by message to your email address 7 days in advance of any such changes. If you do not agree to the changes you should terminate this Agreement in accordance with its terms. We will publish details of any changes to the terms and conditions in clause 14 below. Your continued participation in our affiliate program after we have posted the changes will constitute binding acceptance of such changes.

So exactly what is the point of this?

The top programs look after their affiliates and pay them on time. In return successful affiliates send them 10 - 50 players per month and more.

So what is actually happening here? Hardworking affiliates are working hard generating excitement and getting those players who are sitting on the fence to sign up and in return we are getting stiffed by the T&C's.

The top paying programs are those that work well with affiliates.

Affiliate programs can move the goal posts at will and it seems to me there is no law that says they should do otherwise.

If I sign a contract with a builder who does a ****** job then I take him to the small claims court and get recompense.

If I sign a contract with a gaming firm then I get told that "the agreement may be changed at any time."

Come on people wise up. You are being sold 30% 40% revenue share and in many cases it just isn't going to happen because only the most successful companies can support this revenue model.

It's about time affiliates banded together and started taking these companies to task for their empty promises.

GPWA is an excellent magazine and it's the only reason that I am posting here - but for God's sake show some balls and do what you were put on this planet to do - expose those who continually make empty promises.

You have to tighten up the ropes here or I - and many other newbies - will just walk away from the industry because it is an unregulated piece of crap.

I'm fortunate that I have other sites I have built over the years that generate an income and I was enticed into this market by the commission on offer.

The reality is that you can spend several years building up a player base - like thebookiesoffers - for blue square - and then get stiffed for it.

Where is the incentive in that?

GPWA needs to have some bite - if that means subscription/membership so be it - those of us who are serious about the industry will pay to try and get some regulation.

For as long as operators have "we can change this agreement whenever we want" clause - it's a lottery how much money you are going to make each month.

Tony

[Storebuilder]

Come on people you need to turn this around and stop complying with agreements that are worthless.

Instead, produce an affiliate agreement that says we will promote your site as long as you agree to pay on said date and said time. GPWA has the power to do this. Only GPWA members have this agreement with affiliate programs etc.

It is time to rise up and rebel against these worthless "lifetime income" terms and conditions.

Making an agreement that stands up in a UK court of law is the way to go and GPWA needs to take the lead here and do it.

[universal4]

Storebuilder, I am not sure how long you have been involved in the industry, but the GPWA has been around about 12 or 13 years now, and although getting hundreds of members to stand up and support causes is difficult at times (and some say not as effective as it was 7 years ago) many of us can and do stick together and fight for causes.

We are glad you are here because the magazine directed you here, but the magazine came AFTER the forum.

You mention you wouldn't mind paying a subscription fee for the magazine and although I do enjoy reading it, it would not have the same joy if it was not free and I suspect that the circulation might drop enough that the magazine might not have the same impact.

The forum however will likely outlast the magazine anyway, but it would NOT last long with a subscription fee attached to it, it has undergone ownership changes a few times but that it would likely not survive.

I agree that the terms and conditions that some programs work under are a bit of a joke, and those agreements often no longer mean what we thought they meant 10 years ago, but to create a set of terms that stand up in the UK...what about the US? How about Germany, the Ukraine, Asia, and let's not forget the Aussies as well as the rest of the world.

To be honest, there are a handful of programs that have stood the test of time and still honor agreements they made with affiliates years ago and there are some that aren't worth wasting a sheet of paper to print out.

This is where the true VALUE of the GPWA (and a few other forums) come into play as this gives affiliates a central place to discuss these issues and helps them determine who to work with.

In addition, this also gives us an open forum to make contact directly with the programs representatives, and suggest changes etc to their terms in hopes to make working with them more attractive to everyone involved. Even more impressive are many of the changes that have been institued over the years based upon this interaction.

Can more be done, sure, but moving toward a paid membership here will NOT do it.

Rick
Universal4

[Storebuilder]

Thanks Rick,

Fouteen years since I bought my first domain I guess I'm a veteran.

The rant just came over me I guess it is years of frustration all boiling over and coming out in one splurge LOL.

I didn't mean that the magazine should come with a subscription, rather that the forum could have a subscription area where you could use the funds to fight the cause. I think the magazine is great and should remain free for sure.

I guess the main issue is that if affiliates continue to support and promote programs that have predatory terms they are feeding the hand that reaches into their pocket and steals from them. I've worked in many different industries but this one is by far the most challenging and hardest to crack and when you do start making money - to have it taken away because of predatory terms is unforgiveable.

Successful affiliates are those that work incredibly long hours to make their sites work and it is soul detroying to see that when you finally start bringing players to a program in some cases they do their level best not to pay you.

Anyway, I'm here now and if I can help some fellow newbies in this game along the way I'll do my best.

Great job Rick!

Thanks!

Tony

[universal4]

No....it's actually MORE IMPORTANT that the forum remain free.

The forum was here first, and it is the ROOT of the GPWA, the GPWA only exists because of it's members and it's roots, and had Cindy tried to charge back in the day, or any other owner since, then it may not have survived.

Thank you Cindy!!

And as far as affiliates banding together and helping to push changes (we do that all the time whether you think it happens or not) but let's look at negative carry over and programs that offer it.

The fact that ANY programs offer a no-negative carry over policy at all is because the GPWA and it's members convinced programs this was a good idea, and those programs that were the early adopters of this policy got the majority of the support from the GPWA members.

Many an old timer here can tell stories about those changes, but most of those took place back in 2002 and 2003. After this was implimented at some of the programs, competition among the programs helped expand it to many other groups, and it os only the last few years where more and more programs have been trying to modify and change terms concerning this and other things that hurt an affiliate's bottom line.

I actually work with a few programs who have negative carry over and some that do not, and I understand and accept the risks, I don't like it but I have learned to live with it. I PERSONALLY feel that quotas of any kind are way worse than NCO since many programs have terms in place to help affiliates that experience a big negative, or will deal with those situations as they arise.

A quota is different in that it restricts an affiliate from getting paid when they HAVE made money and deserve to be paid.

Rick
Universal4

[Storebuilder]

Rick, I didn't say that either. I said an "area" of the forum for subscription.

Anyway it's quite clear I'm pressing the wrong buttons here so let's put this one to bed and move on.

[universal4]

That's great that you bought gambling domains 14 years ago....I got my first one in 1999.

Not pushing any wrong buttons, but since you brought up GPWA members getting together to make things happen....that has been going on for more than 10 years.

Rick
Universal4

[Storebuilder]

I bought my first domain in 1999 - storebuilder.co.uk my first gambling domain in 2008 and made sixhanded.com. That site did great until it was hit by one of those panda thingys!

[universal4]

Well we hope you the best with each of your domains.....and don't feel too bad.....a number of people do not like some of them there animals and think they belong in a zoo and have no business in the office of the Big "G".

Rick
Universal4