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  1. #1
    grem's Avatar
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    Default Should Russia suffer consequences of MH17?

    Surprised to see nobody discussing the issue other than on facebook.

    Do you think Russia has some responsibility for the MH17 tragedy?

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    Don't fall into the simplistic thinking pushed by the various propaganda machines that it's ALL XXXXX's FAULT.

    Sure Russia has some responsibility. Putin's nationalist drum beating is very 1980's and has destabilised the area.

    But so fault also lies with the Ukraine, the United States, NATO, the separatist groups ...
    And lets not forget Malaysia Airlines for plotting a route through a war-zone to save fuel.

    With the benefit of hindsight a variation in policy or actions from any of these groups could have prevented the tragedy.

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  4. #3
    Mia Kerr is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    They are definitely guilty in that crime, but as far as I know - EU are not in rush with accepting new laws and restrictions to Russian economy. For example France will still develop and sell battleships to them. Damn capitalists are ready to sell their's soul for gas and dollars.

    Why do you mention only Malasia's plane, while Russia killed over 5.000 ukrainian people by the hands of separatist groups? They were exactly the same innocent as MH17 people... Putin is a terrorist, and I hope someday he will be punished for his bloody crimes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia Kerr View Post
    They are definitely guilty in that crime, but as far as I know - EU are not in rush with accepting new laws and restrictions to Russian economy. For example France will still develop and sell battleships to them. Damn capitalists are ready to sell their's soul for gas and dollars.

    Why do you mention only Malasia's plane, while Russia killed over 5.000 ukrainian people by the hands of separatist groups? They were exactly the same innocent as MH17 people... Putin is a terrorist, and I hope someday he will be punished for his bloody crimes...
    Are you from Ukraine? Doesn't most of the "free world" consider Putin's goverment to be a kleptocracy. He does also look a bit like Gollum from the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy.

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    Mia Kerr is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixian View Post
    Doesn't most of the "free world" consider Putin's goverment to be a kleptocracy.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy#ExamplesThe Russian president Vladimir Putin is the head of the clan, whose assets are estimated at £130 billion.

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    grem's Avatar
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    Well nobody seems to want to push Russia's buttons too much as they provide a lot of gas to rest of Europe. Now it seems Russia has more problems to deal with

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28520892

    A quick summary is about Putin helping national companies own the oil monopoly in Russia.

    Russia will appeal a court decision ordering it to pay $50bn (£29.5bn) in damages, the biggest compensation package ordered to date.Russia was told to pay the money to former shareholders in the now defunct oil producer Yukos.The Hague court said Russian officials had manipulated the legal system to bankrupt Yukos, and jail its boss.

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    Mia Kerr is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    The most funny thing, that Russians are going to dispute court decision in Netherlands.... World goes crazy I guess...

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    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    "Should Russia suffer consequences of MH17?
    Surprised to see nobody discussing the issue other than on facebook.
    "

    Why surprised?

    There is absolutely no evidence, that the rocket came from Russia territory or was launched by regular Russia troops. And most people are educated enough to wait for evidences before they write a statement on Facebook.

    Until this moment most is hearsay and speculations, and it's impossible to open a 2nd "Korean-Air-Lines-Flight 007" case with this.

    I am really not under suspicion to be an fan of Russia as you can read with clear words and real facts in my last diary entry (https://www.gpwa.org/forum/leopolds-...tml#post762293), but it's not the first time, that a superpower sent weapons into a crisis area for its own purpose (Iran/Iraq War 1980 -1988: Both, USA and U.S.S.R. did it) or hired unmarked troops to other countries (CIA did it many times) or start a war with a pack of lies (e.g. Iraq (Weapons of mass destruction )).

    There is considerable evidence, that MH17 was shot down accidentally by pro-Russia Ukraine terrorists because one of them was too stupid to use the control systems of this modern launcher correctly.

    But weapons, which came from a 3rd party, are just weapons of a 3rd party. and if you dear reader, know the true story of arms dealer Viktor Bout (Movie "Lord of War"), then you will never be surprised, when nuclear superpowers playing their games on other territories.

    Leopold
    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 29 July 2014 at 5:14 am.

  10. #9
    Sergej_AGR is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    I am really not under suspicion to be an fan of Russia as you can read with clear words and real facts in my last diary entry (https://www.gpwa.org/forum/leopolds-...tml#post762293), but it's not the first time, that a superpower sent weapons into a crisis area for its own purpose (Iran/Iraq War 1980 -1988: Both, USA and U.S.S.R. did it) or hired unmarked troops to other countries (CIA did it many times) or start a war with a pack of lies (e.g. Iraq (Weapons of mass destruction )).
    So true. Either the reason for war or invasion is oil like in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Lybia, Syria. With the exception of Afghanistan all these countries wanted to stop trading oil in USD currency. Or the reason is USA+EU vs communism (Russia or China) But they cannot attack the other world powers directly. So they go for countries that are close with them like countries in Africa if they want to weaken China and its currency / its gold reserves. There is obviously no other way to weaken China...

    Or now the Ukraine where the real target is Russia. A coming war in ukraine was (maybe) foreseeable a long time ago. It already started when the US began to make europe to a power. For own purposes of course. For example the extended defence shield in europe. In response, last year Putin placed atomic "Iskander M" rockets to the russian borders, planned to cooperate with the ukraine armaments manufacturer and forbid Yanukovych to work closer with the EU.

    And now? The real problem has europe now. They have war in front of the entrance door and had no unsolvable problems with russia before. But europe is still loyal to the "good guys" who made all the EU countries to one controllable unit with the introduction of the Euro...
    Last edited by Sergej_AGR; 29 July 2014 at 8:26 am.

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