Villento sends hard copy letters to homeadresses in Netherlands

[affy]

https://www.rewardsaffiliates.com/help/anti-spam.aspx

"An affiliate will not knowingly benefit from traffic generated by spam including but not limited to email, sms and other forms of unwanted correspondence. Complaints regarding this kind of advertising will result in the affiliate's account being frozen, investigated and closed without payment if found to be breaching this term."

[affy]

https://www.gpwa.org/sponsor/codeofconduct

"Sponsor Companies will not use unethical methods of promotion either directly or indirectly through others and will cooperate with the GPWA in accordance with its policies and procedures to ensure affiliates and other third parties do not financially benefit from unethical behavior."

[affy]

Hey there

I'd have to look into it. I'm not familiar with this campaign.

Cheers

Hi Renèe,

I've addressed this issue in a professional matter and was very polite. I had no intention to suspect Rewards was behind this or that an ill intentions were in place. Till you kept dodging the issue. Any chance you are able to elaborate? (Trust me your silence will not make this disappear)

Copies:

- letter is uploaded to several sites which can be found by following this link https://www.google.nl/#q=brief+villento+casino

(The first result is your own product and the rest show results from Dutch sites writing about Villento's spam activities and even a German result of a player receiving a hard copy letter.)

- http://nl.tinypic.com/r/iz5hra/9

- one in PM to you (pleas don't give me the bullxxxx you are "not able to open it from you office")


If spam is a big issue in our industry (which it is) than sending unsolicited hard copy gambling promotions, to home-addresses of innocent people on a "stolen" or "sold" list, is probably even worse.

[DaftDog]

I do not understand why you do like this to the topic starter?

Well if affy had just emailed the stuff to Renee as requested the problem would probably have been resolved by now. Being stubborn gets you nowhere in life.

[affy]

..Being stubborn gets you nowhere in life...

Stubborn?! Who is ignoring the fact it was sent and published via three different ways here...


Daftdog honestly, feel free to protect Renèe, Rewards and/or your own opinion but... go over the initial post and read my reminders. Do take in consideration the fact that loads of topics were replied to by Renèe in between them, but this one hasn't.

Believing one; is not being able the open a PM, following the provided google searches (letter is published on at least four different sites), doesn't have the tools to trace this "campaign" internally nor being able to open a tinypic from Australia or an office is just Daft. Maybe you understand that Dog?


Besides all of the above it is very clear you have no interest in this thread, not your cup of tea, does probably not effect your country, your work nor your commission and you couldn't give a XXXX about what actually happened here. So why not move on? There a tons of topics on GPWA that might be of much more interest too you, go help your community, be the good guy!

No need to get aggravated and waste time here reading things you don't want... don't be daft...

[DaftDog]

Stubborn?! Who is ignoring the fact it was sent and published via three different ways here...


No need to get aggravated and waste time here reading things you don't want... don't be daft...

If anybody is getting aggravated it most certainly is not me.

I did re-read your posts in case I missed where you said that you had sent the email.

Let's keep it simple, if you can. Did you send the email, yes or no?

[affy]

...Did you send the email, yes or no?...

Let me not be the one ignoring stuff here, I happily leave that bit to both you* and Renèe, no I did not email the letter. (emphasized it a bit as it seems you are indeed a bit daft in this matter)

Now if you want to be so polite and answer my questions too. (only fair not?!)

- How is one email of any importance in solving or explaining this case to the audience here?
You really think Rewards is not able to solve this case with all the information they have received from me and at hand in their own office.

- You think I'm the one not being open and cooperative here?

- Why you only felt the need to reply in this thread about a simple email and, just like Renèe, are dodging any thing related to the PM's , tinypic and Google search I have sent?

Looking for ward to your answer and don't forget the fact that there were six (6) weeks between me addressing this matter, in a very neutral and polite way, to Renèe and her request for an email


*Besides the fact that in your previous post to this thread you are completely ignoring (don't blame the messenger) all of the above facts it is really funny that you fight or flight modus only works on spam via emails....

[DaftDog]

lol, and you call me daft.

no I did't not email the letter

Was that a typo or did you send the email?

[affy]

lol, and you call me daft.



Was that a typo or did you send the email?

FXXK me! (apologies, not a native)

Sorted now! So please proceed with answering my questions as you keep dodging them and ignore simple facts!

[affy]

@DaftDog...

Let me not be the one ignoring stuff here, I happily leave that bit to both you* and Renèe, no I did not email the letter. (emphasized it a bit as it seems you are indeed a bit daft in this matter)

Now if you want to be so polite and answer my questions too. (only fair not?!)

- How is one email of any importance in solving or explaining this case to the audience here?
You really think Rewards is not able to solve this case with all the information they have received from me and at hand in their own office.

- You think I'm the one not being open and cooperative here?

- Why you only felt the need to reply in this thread about a simple email and, just like Renèe, are dodging any thing related to the PM's , tinypic and Google search I have sent?

Looking for ward to your answer and don't forget the fact that there were six (6) weeks between me addressing this matter, in a very neutral and polite way, to Renèe and her request for an email


*Besides the fact that in your previous post to this thread you are completely ignoring (don't blame the messenger) all of the above facts it is really funny that you fight or flight modus only works on spam via emails....

Still waiting...

[Renee]

Ok so I would like to say a few things.

First - I haven't been dodging the issue at all. When you replied to my PM that you would not email it to me, I asked Anthony if he could follow up with you as I thought perhaps you just didn't want me to know who you are - which is silly, because I know who you are. But that was the only reason I could think that you wouldn't help me help you by emailing it to me. He told me that he was going back and forth with you about it and had nothing for me yet.

I spoke to him over the last couple of weeks and while I was in Norway he told me that you said you'd go see him at the conference. When I got to LAC the first thing I did was go to the GPWA booth to talk to Anthony in hopes that I could join him to meet with you. He wasn't there but saw me later and explained that you'd come to see him at ICE so I had missed the meeting.

We had a discussion regarding your meeting. He told me that he had seen the image and that EVERYTHING was blanked out on it and that he explained to you that there would be absolutely no way for me to find who sent it even if you did email it to me. He also explained that that kind of marketing has nothing to do with me, or is part of my job, so without any identifying factor there's nothing I can do.

- Affiliates don't send snail mail. If they do, I've never seen it in our program.
- Our company does not target Netherlands with snail mail. So there is not an internal source for me to find where that came from.
- The last likely sender is a third party company. We don't have access to third party databases, and wouldn't know that they have sent that out unless they have told us.

So, without seeing anything at all, there is no way for me to find where that has come from, despite the fact you told Anthony that I should be able to find it.

To go back to your comments that you showed me 3 ways to see it - I clicked the google link and from Australia, I don't see any results that show what you're talking about.

Also, as I mentioned previously, data security is extremely high in our company and as such, URLs such as the one you sent me containing the image are blocked here in our office. I'm not allowed to remove any data from the office, which means I cannot send it to a personal mobile device either. That's why I asked you to email it to me, and if you'd done that we probably could have avoided this entire back and forth.

In saying all of this, Anthony said that you wanted to know that this won't happen again - I can tell you it surely will not happen from an affiliate or from our company, but I cannot control what third parties do. Unless I know who the sender is my hands are tied on that one and I apologise for that.

[affy]

Ok so I would like to say a few things.

Thanks for your "swift" response

First - I haven't been dodging the issue at all.

Check your response dates...

When you replied to my PM that you would not email it to me

That's not really what I wrote to you (and you know that) so feel free to publish my PM here.

I asked Anthony if he could follow up with you as I thought perhaps you just didn't want me to know who you are - which is silly, because I know who you are.

Off course you know me, not really a secret now is it?! But even if you wouldn't know me tracking me down would be just as easy for you as to track to down the Villento SPAMMER

But that was the only reason I could think that you wouldn't help me help you by emailing it to me. He told me that he was going back and forth with you about it and had nothing for me yet.

Me not wanting to help you.... well that is one way ot put it down. Poor girl... I did not want to help you...

I spoke to him over the last couple of weeks and while I was in Norway he told me that you said you'd go see him at the conference. When I got to LAC the first thing I did was go to the GPWA booth to talk to Anthony in hopes that I could join him to meet with you. He wasn't there but saw me later and explained that you'd come to see him at ICE so I had missed the meeting.

Must have missed your email, PM and/or post here on the forum that you wanted to meet and discuss this matter....

We had a discussion regarding your meeting. He told me that he had seen the image and that EVERYTHING was blanked out on it and that he explained to you that there would be absolutely no way for me to find who sent it even if you did email it to me. He also explained that that kind of marketing has nothing to do with me, or is part of my job, so without any identifying factor there's nothing I can do.

I can not comment on what you an Anthony discuss between you...

- Affiliates don't send snail mail. If they do, I've never seen it in our program.
- Our company does not target Netherlands with snail mail. So there is not an internal source for me to find where that came from.
- The last likely sender is a third party company. We don't have access to third party databases, and wouldn't know that they have sent that out unless they have told us.

- Really?!?!
- So tracking any Dutch player using a bonuscode tagged to Villento SPAM can be traced down very easy (as mentioned in a few of my post)s
- Sure... some "third party company" just spend lots of money to design, print and send Villento SPAM without getting any revenue in return, just cause they like you.... or are they a charity fund maybe?

So, without seeing anything at all, there is no way for me to find where that has come from, despite the fact you told Anthony that I should be able to find it.

To go back to your comments that you showed me 3 ways to see it - I clicked the google link and from Australia, I don't see any results that show what you're talking about.

Also, as I mentioned previously, data security is extremely high in our company and as such, URLs such as the one you sent me containing the image are blocked here in our office. I'm not allowed to remove any data from the office, which means I cannot send it to a personal mobile device either. That's why I asked you to email it to me, and if you'd done that we probably could have avoided this entire back and forth.

To go back to your comments that you showed me 3 ways to see it - I clicked the google link and from Australia, I don't see any results that show what you're talking about.

Also, as I mentioned previously, data security is extremely high in our company and as such, URLs such as the one you sent me containing the image are blocked here in our office. I'm not allowed to remove any data from the office, which means I cannot send it to a personal mobile device either. That's why I asked you to email it to me, and if you'd done that we probably could have avoided this entire back and forth.

I feel sorry for you that you are:

- not able to open a tinypic link at any location or from any device in Australia (how are you even able to work if you are cut out of everything after leaving the office?!)
- ridiculous that your access to this forum is hardcoded so you can only login from your office! How were your bosses able to manage that with GPWA?!?! Must be very hard for you to keep up with everything on the affiliates forum and replying to PM when you are travelling for your affiliate work or not int the office...
- Ridiculous that even a Dutch VPN isn't working in Asutralia.... not even with the search phrases that were given by me already....


On my VPN there is no problem searching like an Australian resident at all and I even get results!!

Your IP Address Is:
103.251.67.219
City: Melbourne
State: Victoria
Country: AU
ISP: Xponent LLC


https://www.google.com.au/#q=villento+brief+casino

Villento Casino verstuurt casinospam per post - Casino Vergelijker
XXXXXasinovergelijkerDOTnet/villento-casino-verstuurt-casinospam-p... Translate this page
Nov 21, 2016 - Van diverse ontvangers van de brief hebben we vernomen dat ze zeker weten dat ze nooit aan een prijsvraag of loterij van


Villento Casino: ongevraagde post |
XXXXerlijkovergokkenDOTnl/.../villento-casino-ongevraagde-post/ Trasnlate this page
Nov 27, 2016 - De brief van Villento ziet eruit als een gewone brief. De postbode bezorgt deze dus, niet wetende dat het ongevraagde casino reclame is.



Sure you want to stay in Australia?!?!

In saying all of this, Anthony said that you wanted to know that this won't happen again - I can tell you it surely will not happen from an affiliate or from our company, but I cannot control what third parties do. Unless I know who the sender is my hands are tied on that one and I apologise for that.

Those darn third parties not...?! I am pretty sure many casino would love them, wow who does not want to work with untraceable third parties sending free traffic?!?!?

So Renée, thanks for all your helpful answers and getting back to me within little under two months...

By the way did you know I found out "a third party" is manipulating Google.nl for Zodiac Casino?! This way they are stealing traffic from hardworking affiliates in the Netherlands? Those darn third parties not... rest assured that I'll get to the bottom of this and keep you posted!

No need to thank me for that, for sure you are happy that a hardworking affiliate is helping your program by tracking all those darn third parties and expose them. You don't want to take the risk of getting into the dodgy Buffalo accusations of being responsible for all this bullshit yourself... better to blame third parties!


XXXX & DOT added to protect affiliate urls from indexing here.

[Renee]

I didn't PM you because I didn't know until I was out of the office that you would be at the conference. I didn't see any PM from you to me either? It was no secret that I would be there. I would have been happy to meet with you even just to show you that I'm in no way avoiding or attacking you which you seem to think I'm doing judging by your aggressive replies.

You wouldn't email it to me after I asked more than once, so that would imply that you refused to email it to me. Would it not?

If I had the bannertag, yes I could easily track down the spammer. But I don't, and according to Anthony, I wouldn't have been able to get it even if you did email it to me.

You seem to have tunnel vision so I wont go on and on explaining myself here. I'm not going to take your grudge personally.

As I mentioned previously, we don't target Netherlands with snail mail, and as far as I know affiliates are not sending snail mail. So from us, this won't happen.

Cheers

[affy]

Hi Renée,

Thanks for your response.

I'm not aggressive at all, just pointing out where you are bending reality, dodging questions and ignoring facts.

You realize that most affiliates do know how campaigns (and tracking) work not?
You do realize that are the most frequent poster here (almost daily) not? Yet it took you a month to reply to a very friendly initial post and only after I posted a reminder?
You do realize "third parties" do not send free traffic?
You do realize "third parties" close deals before they even think of sending traffic?
You do realize your lousy excuses of not being able to see the letter are a bit childish?
You do realize you do not need a actual bonuscode to track the VILLENTO SPAM

With regards to LAC
You do realize it is not up to me to solve this so why would I PM you if you would have time to meet? Especially knowing you are not really trying to solve this case

So IMHO (for my own account, you don't have to confirm this) I'm pretty sure Rewards is not following the GPWA code of conduct and that their casino products are illegally spamming players and manipulating Google search results.

If you would have simply followed up on the initial post I would not have been suspicious at all and probably forgotten about it. Now I had to start digging in all Rewards other malicious activities. So you can only thank yourself for exposing this.

Enjoy your day!


ps.
I'm going to leave this thread for what it is as this has no use further, everybody reading this can judge for themselves what is going on here.

[Renee]

I'm not aggressive at all

I disagree. But text cannot convey tone, so I will not look into that further.

You realize that most affiliates do know how campaigns (and tracking) work not?
You do realize that are the most frequent poster here (almost daily) not? Yet it took you a month to reply to a very friendly initial post and only after I posted a reminder?
You do realize "third parties" do not send free traffic?
You do realize "third parties" close deals before they even think of sending traffic?
You do realize your lousy excuses of not being able to see the letter are a bit childish?
You do realize you do not need a actual bonuscode to track the VILLENTO SPAM

The majority of affiliates will not even disclose how they send us traffic because they are so secretive. Marketing companies are the same. Someone could be sending us Dutch traffic and tell us it's from one source, but it is from another. I really don't understand how this part is not obvious.
If I get complaints about a source, I look into it. When I get a complaint, I have the original material the complaint is about. That's how I find the source.

Childish? You said you weren't being aggressive remember? I don't see anywhere that I've called you names.

With regards to LAC
You do realize it is not up to me to solve this so why would I PM you if you would have time to meet? Especially knowing you are not really trying to solve this case

And if you had PMd me and I said I can't meet you, you would have had all the evidence to prove I was avoiding it.

So IMHO (for my own account, you don't have to confirm this) I'm pretty sure Rewards is not following the GPWA code of conduct and that their casino products are illegally spamming players and manipulating Google search results.

If you would have simply followed up on the initial post I would not have been suspicious at all and probably forgotten about it. Now I had to start digging in all Rewards other malicious activities. So you can only thank yourself for exposing this.

Enjoy your day!


ps.
I'm going to leave this thread for what it is as this has no use further, everybody reading this can judge for themselves what is going on here.

Sure thing. I have already explained that they did not come from us, so I will leave it in GPWA's hands to decide if we are breaking the code of conduct.

Enjoy your evening.

[affy]

Nice try Renée....


Long story short...


Original proof VILLENTO SPAM material/source/letter was handed over by me to you immediate upon your request... almost two months ago.


- letter is uploaded to several sites which can be found by following this link https://www.google.nl/#q=brief+villento+casino


- http://nl.tinypic.com/r/iz5hra/9


- via PM

And later in an additional post via google.com.au.... using the same keywords as mentioned above.


So the rest of the world is perfectly able to see the VILLENTO SPAM... only you aren't...