World Cup Soccer?

[Amateur]

OK, I've watched a number of games in the World Cup so far, and, being an american, I do have a jaundiced eye. I don't really understand the game the way lifelong fans do.

I do understand strategy and sports, and appreicate the conditioning necessary to run up and down a field for 90 minutes.

Unfortunately, that's about as much as I can say for what I have seen so far. A flukey goal, and the game is over!! Most of the games end with scores of 0-0 or 1-0. It's hard to understand a game where players expend so much energy running up and down a field for 90 minutes, with nothing to show for it. All that - for nothing.

I was especially waiting to see the famous Ronaldo do his thing!! This guy fell down every time someone came within a yard of him, and cried like a baby the whole time. It was kind of embarrasing to watch, actually.

It's the only game I know where scoring is not the primary objective!!

Now I realize my opinion matters only to me, and 90% of the World loves this game. Having said that, there are a few suggestions I would make to improve the "watchability" of the game, and make it more entertaining:

1) Get rid of the goalie - this guy is as useless as teats on a boar. Instead, make the net 1/4 of its current size, and make everyone on the field responsible for defense of the net.

2) Allow players to push from the front. That is, if one guy is in front of another, he can push the guy behind him off the ball. Makes it better for defender to protect his net.

Maybe a little tweaking, and you've got a game with scoring, action, and exctement worth watching. And the fluke goal by the weaker team won't make the difference in the game. The winning team will actually have to have skilled players with the ability to score the ball.

There I've fixed your game now.

[fottv]

As much as it pains me I tend to agree with you amatuer. Not on the rule changes though that would just be ridiculous.

But I agree that during this World Cup the emphasis has been on defence not scoring. It appears all teams at this World Cup, including Braizl and Spain have focused on defending adding a lot of weight to your statement

It's the only game I know where scoring is not the primary objective!!

As for Ronaldo, if you had watched any football, sorry Soccer at all you would not have been surprised by him rolling on the floor and crying. He maybe a good player but he is basically a cheat. It is embarassing I don't really understand the mentality of someone who is so good but decides cheating is the best way.

It must be quite starnge though for Americans watching a World Competition with ohter countries in it, unlike the World Series in America

[CasinoTom]

As someone who lived in America that tried (and failed) to get them into the 'beautiful game', I think it is a losing battle really.

I harped on about some amazing games that I had seen, the Man Utd 4 Real Madrid 3 Champions League game in 2003, the epic Liverpool v Newcastle 4-3 game in 1996 where Keegan went nuts and the sheer joy of Cardiff beating Leeds in the FA Cup in 2002, but unfortunately (youtube aside) I could only show them live examples of the MLS, which is truly awful.

Speaking to friends back in the US about the build-up for this World Cup, it sounds like it has been pretty big stuff compared to previous tournaments. But the tournament simply hasn't lived up to the hype.

I have watched pretty much every game, and haven't seen anything that would get any viewers, who aren't ardent football fans already, any more interested to watch the sport after the tournament is over.

Tom

[dhayman]

Get rid of the goalie ??? I don't think so. Soccer (football) is big in the U.S., at the kid level up to about High School. After that, the interest wanes. Americans like high-scoring affairs with lots of crooked numbers in the score. I think that is why most Americans pass on Soccer. Since my son plays it, I have developed somewhat of an interest in it - and I am following the World Cup. But, I couldn't name 2 teams that plays in the the U.S. MLS League though.......

[Amateur]

As much as it pains me I tend to agree with you amatuer. Not on the rule changes though that would just be ridiculous.

...

I understood when I posted that how insane football fans would view my statement about the game changes.

However, consider that we've changed our most popular games, as well. Basketball has the 3-point shot. Did you know that "dunks" used to be banned, as well?

Also, in "American Football", the goal post was moved back 10 yards, to the back of the endzone, the 2-point conversion was added, and this year they changed the overtime rules. The rules for a completed forward pass are different for college and the pros, as well as some other rules. And Canadians play a very different version of "football" than the "American" version. Even the field is a different size, and number of players is different, number of downs, etc.

So, my view of the "sanctity" of the game is not so set in stone as the more "traditional" view.

Having said that, something needs to be done, imv, just to make the game more scorer friendly. Maybe not so drastic as I proposed, (alhthough my game would be a better version), but some rules changes can be made.

I love sport, and the skils required to play this game are phenomanal. I just wish it were more "watchable" for the average viewer.

No, unless things heat up going forward, these games won't inspire young people here to run out an play this game. The fact is that most of our best athletes don't play soccer, and won't in the future. That's the only way it could become as popular here as it is elsewhere.

Argentina and Brazil are clearly the class of the game from what I see. Even Uraguay has shown some flashes. Chile showed some spine, but not much sophistication.

Defense is obviously important, but it doesn't bring viewers, or inspire excitement.

Tiger Woods entry into golf has elevated its status as a primary sport in this country. Ratings for golf when he plays match, if not beat, anything else on tv, certainly. And watching his struggles is just as entertaining as watching his triumphs. US Open golf starts today, as well. All day, 6-channel coverage, so they can have one channel on Tiger all 18 holes, and still give coverage to the other players. (But that's another thread, entirely!)

But "our" football is #1, and that' won't change. The 7th game of the NBA finals is tonight, and you know how many Europeans, Asians, and Africans have adopted basketball, and play in the NBA. And baseball as well.

So Soccer is not a "lost cause", but it has a steep uphill climb.

[TheGooner]

Yes - the opening few games have been a bit woeful. Safety first.

But just like all things of quality - you have to sort through the wheat from the chaff. And it's having to digest some unpaletable efforts that make the good efforts so beautiful.

More goals / scoring is not the answer (well 1 or 2 more might be) ... but not wholesale scoring. Basketball is a game of 100+ points per team per night - and frankly no-one cares at all until the 4th quarter.

I'd hate football to degenerate into an inability to defend. Defending is part and parcel of the game - not just attacking. There is justifiable pride in keeping an opponent scoreless.

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Yesterday had three quality games.

Chile beat Honduras 1-0. Murdered them. but could not get that second goal. It was still a good game.

Switzerland beat Spain 1-0. Spain were totally domiannt in almost every facet except scoring. So the underdogs win. it was their first victory in 18 attempts over spain. Classic stuff.

Finally, Uruguay beat South Africa 3-0, with 2 goals in the last 10 minutes.

It's the tightness of the contests that make the game enjoyable for the knowledgeable fans - and it's generally ture that the higher the quality of the contest the fewer goals that are scored. If a game is 3-0 or 4-0 it loses viewers. The goals become meaningless - boring.

Eg. My pub team can win a game 6-5 or 4-2 or lose 1-7. Plenty of point. But it's still rubbish football - the goals are possbile only because the opponents do not defend well.

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Football does not REALLY need to re-invent itself to find more converts. THe popularity of the game has never been higher. It's the #1 sport on all continents.

[CasinoTom]

I've read before when the NASL 'experiment' was on the decline at the end of the 70's (for the reasons you mentioned before) they scaled it down into an indoor league with less players, smaller goals and much higher scores as they thought the US viewer may prefer that format...but that still failed

[TheGooner]

A case in point. Argentina have just gone 4-1 up over South Korea.

There are 10 minutes left - but the game is now dead. The result has been decided - even if the final score is not known. All over Europe fans are getting up from lunch - turning off the TV and going about their day.

If it was still 2-1, then they'd watch the last 10 minutes.


UPDATE :
And yet - tonight the papers will be full of Argentina. We appreciate their four goal effort precisely because it is so hard to do at this level. And the game and skills will be talked about.

But - importantly - as the goals went in then the tension disappeared from the match, making it less compelling to watch.

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I guess baseball fans might understand that ... the appeal of a no-hitter or tense 1-run lead vs a blowout.

[TheGooner]

I've read before when the NASL 'experiment' was on the decline at the end of the 70's (for the reasons you mentioned before) they scaled it down into an indoor league with less players, smaller goals and much higher scores as they thought the US viewer may prefer that format...but that still failed

Mmmm ... It was called the MISL (Major Indoor Soccer League) I think. I saw some coverage of that on obscure channels - and it was an enjoyable oddity.

Every now and then there was some great skills, and a wonderful goal. But when the score was 7-5 (or somesuch) who really cares ... they cheapened the value of a goal - and made it all boring.

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A final example.

I play football ... both indoor 5-a-side and outdoor 11-a-side.

Score a goal or even 2,3,4 at indoor and you are pleased for a couple of hours - as the game finishes with a scoreline of 10-4. But tomorrow it's so what.

Score a goal outdoors in a 1-0 or 2-1 win, and it stays with you all season as a warm glow to be remembered.

Rarity of goals in REAL football means that they're valued more. Even a dodgy toe-poke goal from 2 feet out is worth celebrating.

[Amateur]

This subject is so interesting to me, I just have to jump back in here.

With all due respect to lifelong fans of the game of Soccer, I've already said I don't understand all the details of strategy, but I do understand competition, skill and athleticism.

Watching a gifted athlete do their best at their chosen sport is always a privilege. Watching Rafael Nadal take out Sonderlin at the French Open was enjoyable b/c his excellence was very watchable. Even knowing Sonderlin didn't have a chance didn't make much difference. Of course, watching Nadal vs Federer would have been a better match, but Nadal could only play his best against the guy across the net from him.

A player can't choose his opponent or guarantee the level of skill of that opponent. All the player can control is how well he responds when called on to perform. I admire and enjoy watching that, whether the other team is any good or not. If they aren't any good, I wouldn't have any respoect for a gifted player if he didn't put his foot on their necks, and try to squash them like bugs. That's the nature of competition, be it chess or billiards or bowling...or even football.

Display excellence whenever possible, and give the fans what they came to see. Don't play down to the level of the competition simplay to satisfy the "purist's" desire for "suspense" in the outcome!

Watching Argentina put on that display of excellent skill and athleticism was refreshing to see. It sure has been in short supply to this point. Suspense or not. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing what can be done when skill, strategy and athleticism are at its peak. Ridiculing Argentina for doing their best is simply sour grapes.

At this point I don't care what "Europeans" are watching. since, for the most part, those teams don't seem to be taking this whole World Cup very seriously. They sure haven't put on any great displays or produced much "greatness" of their own!

Germany put on a nice display against inferior talent, as well they should. The idea is to put away the weaker opponent, give them no reason to hope for a "miracle", get in practice to sharpen your technique, give the subs some time on the field, and save your mental and physical energy for the more formidable opponent.

Spain was abysmal, as was Portugal. Italy was lackluster, and seemed uninterested in being on the field. The Swiss were excited and working hard to do what they could. They took advantage of a team that didn't respect them!

I understand these things, whether I know how many players are supposed to be in the middle, or why they kick the ball to a certain place. I am familiar enough with sport to pick up a lot of that as things progress and I watch more games.
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Now, on to basketball!

Your description of the objective in basketball is dismissive and flawed. Defense is indeed the key to winning champiohips, at every level. The Lakers won Game 6 in the NBA Championships Tue night by playing defense, and getting offense from that. The Celtics can only hope to win Game 7 tonight by playing defense. Even if Kobe goes off and scores, if they stop Pao Gasol (from Spain btw), and the subs, the Celtics will win! (I despise both teams, but what can I do?) Kobe scored 80 pts., once, and the Lakers lost the game. Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 pts., and his team lost as well.

The guy who has won the most NBA Championships (11 Championships in 13 years), Bill Russell, was a defensive specialist. He was a rebounder and shot-blocker, not a scorer.

My fav team is the San Antonio Spurs, a team that features a guy from Argentina (Manu Ginobili) and one from France (Tony Parker), and another from the Virgin Islands (Tim Duncan)!! And they play defense, won 4 Championships in last 10 years featuring defense. Ginobili from Argentina is one of the most exciting players in the whole NBA.

You need both to be successful. Defense wins Championships, but offense gets eyes on the game and generates enthusiasm and excitement.

I have a special feeling and "protective" attitude about basketball b/c my 2 nieces, sisters, won our State Championship for 2010!! I am so proud of them, b/c they are both excellent defensive players, although both can score the ball, and hit shots.

I should mention that the college Basketball Champiohsips featured teams specializing in defense And was won on a defensive play by the favorite (Duke University). The underdog (Butler University) gave them a battle though, and it was an excellent game, that came down to the final shot at the buzzer.

The game even bordered on "boring" because the final score was so low (61-59), but the "suspense" made it very watchable.

You may not think much of Basketball, but players from all over the world play in the NBA and in colleges here. And, there are Basketball leagues everywhere in Europe and Asia, and even in Oz.

It's popular b/c you don't need much more than a ball, and any kind of hoop stuck somewhere. Not much space is required, so city kids can play anywhere. You don't need many players, one kid can enjoy the game, or two can play, and have a blast. If a kid has a ball bouncing near a hoop, he'll get company pretty fast! Boys and girls can enjoy the game, and even play together.

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American Football is not a good comparison with Soccer, I don't think.

The game uses separate squads for each facet of the game, offense, defense, and two different Special Teams squads. Well, three actually, with the Field Goal squad. And there are players who specialize in doing each and every little thing. A different guys kicks punts, from the one who kicks field goals. A different guys catches punts than the one who catches kick offs. There is just no real way to compare the two games, imv.

In terms of strategy and athleticism, Basketball is a much better comparison. Even though the scoring and field of play is so different.

[AmCan]

i have to agree with pretty much everything gooner has said.

Americans like action, basketball and american football are loved because there is lots of speed and lots of scoring.

The north american analog to soccer is NHL hockey. it's huge in Canada, Detroit, New York City, Boston, Buffalo, Minneapolis and chicago. most of the rest of north america doesn't watch, because there isn't enough scoring, because offside calls stop the action, etc.

The world cup in 95% of the soccer that i watch. Even low scoring games tend to be interesting to me. Just watching the strategies the different teams have, the level of talent, the different styles between countries, etc. entertain me regardless of the score.

I do find it amazing that the greatest players in the world can kick a ball that size, from 20 yards away toward a huge net and often miss by 20 yards .

My only real change for soccer would be to allow unlimited substitutions, without involve the referee's as they do in hockey. This would speed up the game, increase the scoring and make it a very different game than it is today. It would be much more like hockey and basketball, were players come in an out of the game based on their skills, the opponent and fatigue.

[villa10]

The first round of the World Cup is always horrible. There is much risk that an inferior team will leave you out

New rules? After France 98, there was an attempt to reduce the number of players from 11 to 10, but FIFA declined. The fields are small for such athletic defenses.

I think that from the second round we will see an outstanding Cup.

[TheGooner]

Ridiculing Argentina for doing their best is simply sour grapes.

Don't be dim - no one ridiculed Argentina. It simply stopped being a "must watch event because the result was not in doubt.

A bit like a regular season blow-out game in a US sport. Lots of scoring - but less intense because of the situation.

[Renee]

I also have to agree with most that Gooner has said..

As someone who has played football (soccer), rugby, basketball, softball and whatever other sport you want to name, I have to say that the low scoring games are often the best because there is suspense and excitement. Who will score next, who wont score etc..

When the same team wins all the time, it's boring. I think that's why the world cup has been so interesting this time around, regardless of whether the games were crap, because let's face it most of them were.

Some of the results were very unexpected and some were more than expected.

I have to say, when the scoring is so high in a game, it makes it less exciting to watch. Take a basketball game for example.

The score is up near the hundreds, which means that the teams have scored around 40-50 times each. That could almost mean that the whole game is just each team running up, scoring. Running back, scoring. BORING!

The exciting part about football is the suspense of watching someone shoot for goal and the goalie saves or misses it.. Have you actually seen the size of the goal net in real life? It's a bloody achievement and takes great skill to be able to judge where a ball is going to go and go the right way, because if you misjudge and jump the wrong way, there is no saving the ball.

One thing I have to say I hate about the game I love so much is the bull diving and carrying on. I think that's one thing that if the refs didn't penalise so much on it they would have to stop doing it eventually...

As one guy said on the tv the other day, if you fell over and really broke your leg or hurt yourself bad, the first thing you're going to say is not "give him a yellow card".

And as villa10 said, I think the next round will bring on the better games..

The draw/nil all scores etc are even more exciting because I think New Zealand proved the other night that anything can happen... They scored to tie in extra time! Now that was exciting. I feel sorry for the guy who lost his 40k bet though.. He wouldda thought he had it in the bag.

Anyway my 2 cents.

I'll be interested mostly to see the game on Sat between Oz and Ghana..

[Amateur]

I hear you, ppl!!

You guys are all LIFELONG FANS!!

I am not. I am a fairly new viewer from America who is looking for something to hold my interest for 90 minutes.

As a non-fan of Soccer, but a fan of sports, I very naturally want to see the best examples of the skills required to be successful. Naturally, not all games can be great contests, that's to be expected.

BUT, the teams with better players SHOULD produce a better quality of Soccer. That's to be expected, as well. It should take more than one flukey goal to produce an upset, shouldn't it?

You guys ridicule basketball, because of the scoring, but the benefit of that scoring is that a sorry ass team can't produce an upset from one flukey goal.

As fans who appreciate the nuances of your game, suspense is obviously more important to you than the quality of play. For me, quality of play is of primary importance, so I can learn what is going on, and what is good, as opposed to what is sloppy, or poor execution.

What is a good pass? When should the ball go in the air? When should it go on the ground? How many players should go forward on an attack?

You guys already know these things, while I don't.

If you want Americans to embrace your game, to increase its popularity, then you must expect some criticism of the game. Questions like - Why this? Why do they do that? It's going to happen.

Don't be defensive about it. Don't take it personally. I happen to be a devoted fan of American football, basketball, and tennis, in particular. If someone makes a comment, or asks a question, I don't take it personally.

Ppl ridicule my fav team the Dallas Cowboys all the time. Much as I live and die on their success and failure, I simply accept they have no understanding yet, but they will eventually.

I am a sportsfan who has some skills in tennis, karate, bowling, chess, archery, softball, billiards and maybe a few other sports along the way. I have some understanding of training, stamina, trajectory, angles of attack, agility, speed, quickness, etc. I'd like to apply that understanding to the game of Soccer.

While I do that, it's interesting to discuss what is a good team and what is not. So I'd like to see what works and what doesn't.

Excuse me while I watch and try to learn.


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So, France bit the dust, and are in mortal danger!! It seems the teams not so well thought of, are taking these preliminary games much more seriously than the so-called favorites.

It just seems to me that if the "better" teams don't start displaying their skills, they won't be around to up their game. The most important thing is to survive and advance. The best way to do that is to score goals, isn't it?

[arkyt]

Team USA just got robbed against Slovenija ...

The played pretty poorly in the first half and were down 2-0 entering the 2nd half. Then came out on fire eventually drew even at 2-2 ... then with a handful of time remaining scored a go-ahead goal, but it was disallowed for some unknown reason - eg it was a blown call - US should have won.

On a side note - these professional soccer players have perfected the "flop" eg faking injuries/falls etc! LOL!

[AmCan]

these professional soccer players have perfected the "flop" eg faking injuries/falls etc!

There should be a best acting award for both individual and team achievement.

It reminds me of old time professional wrestling, where the guy who get's hit in the chest, shakes his head, as if his neck was a spring recoiling back and forth. Just so everyone would know how much he was really hurt.

Can anyone come up with a reason that the 3rd US goal wasn't allowed? I mean, whether he blew the whistle early or called it off for another reason, i don't see what it was.

[arkyt]

There should be a best acting award for both individual and team achievement.

LOL - thats a good idea. I would guess someone gives out such awards! They should put together an all-star team of floppers and play a game - that would be quite entertaining.

As for the the blown call, I haven't heard much more than it was this refs first every world cup game. Not much of an excuse to blow a call at this level...

[Anthony]

I have no idea what the call was for. I think a lot of people are asking the same question. Regardless it was a great comeback to tie.

[HBKKH]

Just watched the USA highlights. What's with the fan crying when USA tied it up? it's only the second game.