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  1. #1
    ck8795 is offline Private Member
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    Default CardSpike / CAP / Gambling911

    Not sure how many other affiliates are aware of this or not if you dont check out the other poker affiliate forums

    http://www.gambling911.com/gambling-...ap-010109.html

    Also this isnt the only story out there for anyone who thinks this is just a few people bitching. Nobody has been paid from this room. The best summary so far is from the pokeraffiliatebible.com who has a complete break down of what has happened with this room.

    http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/pokera...dorsement-891/

    http://www.pokeraffiliatebible.com/c...ing-scam-site/

    http://www.poker-prop.net/news/cards...ning-1264.html

    http://www.fuzionpoker.com/poker/car...-cardspikecom/

    http://www.bankrollboost.com/poker_b...poker-warning/

    http://www.recentpoker.com/news/cardspike-1747.html


    http://www.pokernewsteam.com/poker-n...rdspikecom/289

    http://www.natarem.com/2008/12/20/rakeback-followup/
    Last edited by ck8795; 3 January 2009 at 12:09 pm.

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  3. #2
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    So glad I never promoted this one. It was close but the bad reports started in November I think and a ran away quick, fast and in a hurry!
    --
    "People who are unable to motivate themselves must be content with mediocrity." ~Andrew Carnegie~

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  5. #3
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    - According to Gambling911 -

    ...the new online poker room (CardSpike.com) is owned by some individuals behind Casino Affiliate Programs, also known as CAP - an online gambling affiliate conference promotion group.

    "The fraudulent "safety seal" (paid for) at PAP/CAP (poker affiliate programs and casino affiliate programs) is a sham, this site is run by ******."

    Pretty rough stuff if true?

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    mojo (3 January 2009)

  7. #4
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
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    I was actually told many months ago that the principals at CAP were the beneficial owners of Cardspike.

    More recently I became aware that Cardspike had such a bad payment record that it should properly be considered a rogue operation.

    Still, I kept quiet and did not say anything. Perhaps I should not have stayed quiet, but there are limits on what level of attack is appropriate against a competitor, especially when that competitor is quick to threaten lawsuits ... a topic for another day.

    But anyway, now that the cat is out of the bag, I can confirm that what I have been told is far worse than anyone might imagine.

    My understanding is that principals at CAP, which claims to certify programs and represent affiliates, are running a rogue operation and ripping off affiliates on the side.

    And they have an ownership interest in Affiliate Speed Pay too. {Correction: Please note that since this initial post I have learned the statement made at one time to me by a member of the CAP management team that he owned affiliate speed pay and a post on the CAP website by a member of the CAP management team stating that they operated affiliate speed pay were incorrect. My current understanding is that CAP serves only in a marketing capacity for affiliate speed pay}

    So you have an organization being paid by affiliate programs to help them establish new affiliate relations that is, behind the scenes, using the affiliates who are referred to them through those programs and through affiliate speed pay to promote cardspike, which is their own beneficially owned online gaming operation. {Correction: Given the updated information I have obtained about the ownership of affiliate speed pay noted above, and based on discussion with affiliate speed pay I now feel confident that no information related to affiliate speed pay account holders was accessible to CAP in their more limited marketing role}

    And then you have cardspike, which is an online gaming operation beneficially operated by US citizens, that accepts US players. Simply unbelievable.

    What goes around comes around.

    Michael
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 8 January 2009 at 9:38 pm. Reason: Added notes to reflect more current information in braces
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

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  9. #5
    Anthony's Avatar
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    Wow, unreal.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
    Apply for Private Membership | Apply for the GPWA Seal | Partner with a GPWA Sponsor | Volunteer as a Moderator


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    There is a good reason why the business end needs to be separated from the affiliate side... which still needs a clear line between the players. Wonder if the US Feds are going to pick up on this? v In any case, it is not good for the industry - another example of failed regulation offshore.... and possibly may lead to conclusions that affiliates are more than they actually are.
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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    I was actually told many months ago that the principals at CAP were the beneficial owners of Cardspike.

    But anyway, now that the cat is out of the bag, I can confirm that what I have been told is far worse than anyone might imagine.

    My understanding is that principals at CAP, which claims to certify programs and represent affiliates, are running a rogue operation and ripping off affiliates on the side.

    And they have an ownership interest in Affiliate Speed Pay too.

    Michael
    What we don't know can hurt us. I don't understand it all yet but this is devastating. Affiliate trust factors continue to dwindle.

    I will continue to stay away from ASP as well. Thank you kaus, Michael and all for the warning.

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    Pardon my ignorance... what is CAP?

  16. #9
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    You can check out CAP here...
    http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

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    Thanks... I've been reading a lot here for the past 3 days and seems like there is no limit to all that is going on in this industry...
    Last edited by RetiredFolk; 4 January 2009 at 6:40 am.

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    I am so thankful I pulled the promos from my sites for cardspike before I ever got any sign ups. I also have been pulled caps seal from my sites because of the crap they had done in the past.

    I refuse to be affiliated in any way with any organization that I know has done what I consider to be unmoral behavior . Maybe this is easy for me because I'm just a small time earner in this business, but I do believe I would stand my my morals even if I was a high earner. Sometimes I think that's why I'm still an old broke boy from the country.

    Thanks for all the added info .

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    CAP can run a Poker Skin if they want as far as i'm concerned.

    Ensuring all owed folk get paid is a prequisite though, not a choice.

    As soon as affs are involved, you guys go ape. Shaft the players, and you keep right on doing business with Cap as usual.

  22. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    As soon as affs are involved, you guys go ape. Shaft the players, and you keep right on doing business with Cap as usual.
    I don't agree, most affiliates want there refered players to be happy, as it secures further income for all the hard work that goes into making a site work, and theres alot of it. I most certainly wold not recommend a site that does not pay out its players, its a bad reflection on any site they are referred from and that sort of publicity not only harms the operator but the site promoting its wares. If I ever find that a site I am referring players to is not playing fare with either the player or the affiliate I will pull it form my site immediately.

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    Hmm, any substance to his? The fact that "...a number of its affiliates and some industry observers have told Gambling911.com the new online poker room is owned by some individuals behind Casino Affiliate Programs" doesn't amount to corroboration of any kind.

    That said, I wouldn't be remotely surprised; but I would be disinclined to report on the matter myself on the basis of this hearsay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    I was actually told many months ago that the principals at CAP were the beneficial owners of Cardspike.

    More recently I became aware that Cardspike had such a bad payment record that it should properly be considered a rogue operation.

    Still, I kept quiet and did not say anything. Perhaps I should not have stayed quiet, but there are limits on what level of attack is appropriate against a competitor, especially when that competitor is quick to threaten lawsuits ... a topic for another day.

    But anyway, now that the cat is out of the bag, I can confirm that what I have been told is far worse than anyone might imagine.

    My understanding is that principals at CAP, which claims to certify programs and represent affiliates, are running a rogue operation and ripping off affiliates on the side.

    And they have an ownership interest in Affiliate Speed Pay too.

    So you have an organization being paid by affiliate programs to help them establish new affiliate relations that is, behind the scenes, using the affiliates who are referred to them through those programs and through affiliate speed pay to promote cardspike, which is their own beneficially owned online gaming operation.

    And then you have cardspike, which is an online gaming operation beneficially operated by US citizens, that accepts US players. Simply unbelievable.

    What goes around comes around.

    Michael
    Hmm again. If you knew who the owners were, and that players were being robbed, and said nothing...well that ain't all that good either. You cannot libel the truth.

    But whatever.

    Is your "understanding" based on reasonable corroboration? If CAP is running a poker room effectively from the US, for US citizens, then we have an interesting situation.

  25. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    Hmm, any substance to his? The fact that "...a number of its affiliates and some industry observers have told Gambling911.com the new online poker room is owned by some individuals behind Casino Affiliate Programs" doesn't amount to corroboration of any kind.

    That said, I wouldn't be remotely surprised; but I would be disinclined to report on the matter myself on the basis of this hearsay.
    The information in the post I made within this thread is based on information I personally received from a number of distinct sources that I each consider to be highly credible. Since I have not spoken to Gambling 911 about the situation I do not have an opinion about who their sources were or whether I would personally have considered them reliable enough to run the story they published.

    Michael
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    IMO Gambling911 is a gossip tabloid and will say anything that is popular that day. I remember a time when some of their popular troublemaker members would post lies about me that was allowed so I have no respect for that dump!

    Where is the proof? It would be nice to see some legal proof that Lou and/or Warren owns CardSpike.

    I really hope that we get some proof and real answers in this situation instead of another drama scene with CAP as the villian again this week because this is getting old.

  27. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    Hmm again. If you knew who the owners were, and that players were being robbed, and said nothing...well that ain't all that good either. You cannot libel the truth.

    But whatever.

    Is your "understanding" based on reasonable corroboration? If CAP is running a poker room effectively from the US, for US citizens, then we have an interesting situation.
    I've understood that CAP was involved with cardspike for a long time. However, it was only within the last few weeks that I became aware of the problems with affiliate payments, and only within the last few days that I became aware of problems with player payments. And I initially assumed that the affiliate payments would get sorted out in short order, so felt at the time that it would be particularly suspect for the GPWA as a competitor to lash out about the problem on that basis just before the issues were fixed, particularly in a context where there was pretty active discussion about the situation elsewhere.

    The poker room itself is part of cake which is run from outside the US. However beneficial owners of the operation (by the operation I mean cardspike, not cake) are located in the US making decisions in the US, and I do have sufficient information from enough different sources to make me feel that information is very reliable. I've actually had that information for a very long time, but, as I said, I didn't feel it was appropriate to broadcast that information at a time when I didn't view the operation was also rogue in nature with respect to players and affiliates.

    Michael
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 4 January 2009 at 4:07 pm. Reason: Clarified by operation I meant cardspike, not cake
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    Ok, I'm up to speed finally. CAP is, or appears to be, the actual ("beneficial") owner of a poker room whose management team is running it into the ground and robbing players and affiliates.

    I assume that a US citizen's beneficial ownership (and effective running) of a company which provides a game that is illegal to US citizens is legal in itself.

    And nothwithstanding that question, I hope CAP steps up to its responsibility here. I am, of course, assuming Michael's information is solid, but he seems sure enough.

  29. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    Ok, I'm up to speed finally. CAP is, or appears to be, the actual ("beneficial") owner of a poker room whose management team is running it into the ground and robbing players and affiliates.

    I don't think the intention was ever to "run it into the ground" but this is what tends to happen when a company gets into financial difficulty. I'm not saying that is the case - but in these tough economic times, that would be my guess. We've seen a few places close down before it got that bad.

    And contrary to Joeyl's comment earlier... I would rather see player payments get processed while affiliates are on the hook for a few months - especially if it all gets worked out in the long run.

    This thread has many themes - but primarily it isn't really about CAP's potential ownership - but a warning about a poker room failing to meet their financial obligations.
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