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  1. #21
    MMM
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    I think that if you can prove that the account is yours - the program should pay you.
    Will they actually pay you - depends on the program. In your case seems that not.

    I would name the program btw. There are a lot of affiliates that use fake names on the aff program account and for a good reason (the data of many programs travel with the AM's (and without them) to god knows where). if all programs would stop paying to them - 33% of the people of this forum will sleep on the street.
    Last edited by MMM; 27 February 2016 at 4:14 pm.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMM View Post
    I think that if you can prove that the account is yours - the program should pay you.
    Will they actually pay you - depends on the program. In your case seems that not.

    I would name the program btw. There are a lot of affiliates that use fake names on the aff program account and for a good reason (the data of many programs travel with the AM's (and without them) to god knows where). if all programs would stop paying to them - 33% of the people of this forum will sleep on the street.
    A lot of affiliates use fake names so they can spam, cookie drop, scrape sites, hack sites and all the other blackhat methods that the dodgy ones do.

    Are you saying they should be allowed to do that? As there is no come back on the dodgy affiliate if affiliate programmes allow people to sign up using fake details, as if/when they get caught they will just start again, no risk.

    I have about 50 affiliate accounts, many of them have been active for 5+ years, i can honestly say I have never known any of my details be transferred outside where I registered, maybe I've just been lucky.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMM View Post
    I think that if you can prove that the account is yours - the program should pay you.
    Will they actually pay you - depends on the program. In your case seems that not.

    I would name the program btw. There are a lot of affiliates that use fake names on the aff program account and for a good reason (the data of many programs travel with the AM's (and without them) to god knows where). if all programs would stop paying to them - 33% of the people of this forum will sleep on the street.
    So in your book anarchy rules. I disagree with your point of view. I've never used fake details to register with any program and I've never had any problems doing so. Naming the program just to try and shame them will not make any difference. I do not see any program paying out in a situation like this and I agree with them.

    I'm certainly not one of the "33%" (big thumb suck figure) that will be sleeping on the streets any time soon.

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    I think you should write the name of this operator. May be they can handle this issue from GPWA. At least you'll have some chances to get the money back...

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    Ok so reading through this i have mixed feelings.

    I can understand breaking the rules and terms etc is not the correct way to do any sort of business.

    If an affiliate wants to keep his identity secret from the " outside world " why is that an issue ?

    I have had affiliates that turn over $1000 that i have met in person but dont use there real names on the affiliate programs just for the sake of staying under the radar as Gaming related activities may be frowned on in their countries.

    When it comes to making payments to these guys the E wallets or banks they are using would already have done there checks to ensure the person who controls the accounts is legit and real would they have not ?

    So if the affiliate can prove to the program that they are the legit account Holder but have registered an alias for anonymity is this a big issue?

    In no way am i saying its correct to do this or commit Fraud and each program has the right to deal with these matters as they deem fit but for a legit person to work under a "Alias" is common isn't it ?
    An affiliate can still keep their identity secret from the outside world by working with programs they trust not to pass on their data. Lying to a program is completely different to putting your fake name out into the wild.

    And as I said before, if you don't trust the program not to sell your data, why are you working with them?

    You can easily setup a separate email address for each program. Nothing wrong with that. Then if someone sells it, you know who it was and you can just close that email account. Simple.

    Regarding the payments, it's usually the processor asking for this info, not the end bank/ewallet. Yep, they could contact the ewallet to ask for KYC docs, but they are not the ones sending the money, so they would go to the source (us) to get those details as the responsibility of fraud and laundering is on us.

    Quote Originally Posted by colin3005 View Post
    A lot of affiliates use fake names so they can spam, cookie drop, scrape sites, hack sites and all the other blackhat methods that the dodgy ones do.

    Are you saying they should be allowed to do that? As there is no come back on the dodgy affiliate if affiliate programmes allow people to sign up using fake details, as if/when they get caught they will just start again, no risk.

    I have about 50 affiliate accounts, many of them have been active for 5+ years, i can honestly say I have never known any of my details be transferred outside where I registered, maybe I've just been lucky.
    +1

    It has to work both ways. Having real details in the account helps us get rid of the dodgy ones. We can't have double standards.

    Also, as a side note I send lots of xmas and birthday cards that are always returned to me because the address is wrong. Sometimes we like to surprise you and send you something nice and it's kinda pointless if it's going to backfire by being returned, or when we have to ask for your address, then tell you why we need it.
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  7. #26
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    All Fair comments just making my point and viewing my opinions is all and that's what they are My Opinions.

    I dont want to work with Cheaters , Fraudsters etc In fact I take exception to these

    I have no issues with an affiliate using an Alias. if it makes them feel more comfortable and by this i mean registering an Alias in the affiliate program in order to keep your real details hidden as long your traffic is legitimate and coming from legit sources and you are not doing anything under handed or illegal but are wanting to keep "anonymous" for personal or legal reasons for example where you live in a country that has strict laws pertaining to gaming related activity and you dont want issues with governments because your an affiliate.
    as long as the banking information you provided or company details etc are legit and correct then an Alias doesn't bother me.
    Last edited by Miles_FTA; 1 March 2016 at 4:31 am.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    I dont want to work with Cheaters , Fraudsters etc and take exception to these but if its done for a legit reason well then i have no issues.
    If you are going into a deal with fake credentials then I don't won't to work with you.

    Miles (if that is your real name?), you are clearly jaded and worn down by your role in this industry ...
    There is no "legit reason" to be entering false data in a financial agreement.

  9. #28
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    Quote : Miles (if that is your real name?),

    My Name is Myron .. (Miles ) Everyone calls me Miles .. It has been that way for 13 Years since i started in this industry .

    I never said i agreed in one way shape or form .. you have miss interpreted my statement .. completely and jumped the gun a bit Gooner (NOT YOUR FAULT , As i see i wrote it very poorly and have edited it now to read better . So i can see you could read it like that - not the first time i got myself into trouble because i write poorly.)

    What i said and meant are very different things.

    I said i dont want to work with Cheaters and Fraudsters etc and take exception to these guys taking advantage of us and I stick by this. We dont and never will deal with people that deliberately try take advantage.

    What i Meant was i dont have an issue with an affiliate registering an Alias with us in order to keep his real name out of the public light for
    personal or legal reasons for example where you live in a country that has strict laws pertaining to gaming related activity and you dont want issues with governments because your an affiliate.

    As long as his banking details etc are legit and in his real name then i am fine with that and in most cases i have met them so i know they are real people.

    That is not fraud or cheating its a simple case of staying under the radar and not wanting people to know who they are .. ( Kind of like hiding your contact information when you register a domain )

    Quote : you are clearly jaded and worn down by your role in this industry ...

    Please forgive me but wow for you jump to conclusions is unfair and judgmental
    Last edited by Miles_FTA; 1 March 2016 at 8:13 am.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    What i Meant was i dont have an issue with an affiliate registering an Alias with us in order to keep his real name out of the public light for
    personal or legal reasons for example where you live in a country that has strict laws pertaining to gaming related activity and you dont want issues with governments because your an affiliate.
    My question is, why would they need to enter fake details into a program to keep them out of the governments hands?

    This is my point re if you don't trust the program not to hand over your data, you shouldn't be working with them.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion as you said, but the point of sharing each other's opinions is so that we can possibly see it from each other's point of view and debate with each other sometimes. You seem to see it as an attack anytime someone doesn't agree with you. It's not. We are all sharing opinions. If you didnt agree with my opinion, and could show me why you dont agree, I may change my mind. What's wrong with that?
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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renee View Post
    My question is, why would they need to enter fake details into a program to keep them out of the governments hands?

    This is my point re if you don't trust the program not to hand over your data, you shouldn't be working with them.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion as you said, but the point of sharing each other's opinions is so that we can possibly see it from each other's point of view and debate with each other sometimes. You seem to see it as an attack anytime someone doesn't agree with you. It's not. We are all sharing opinions. If you didnt agree with my opinion, and could show me why you dont agree, I may change my mind. What's wrong with that?
    Renee .. I know people are not attacking me. I was simply pointing out to Gooner that I felt he was unfair in his Comments about Me , My Name etc but he did make a valid points about what i had said as i wrote it very poorly is all .i am a very agreeable person in most cases.

    Its an opinion in my 13 Years of doing this I have had a hand full maybe of people that have regsitred an Alias for the reasons i mentioned .

    When we still were taking players from Italy before AAMS was introduced we had affiliates ask us to allow them to register an Alias so as to protect there sites/business from being shut down as this was there livelihood.

    AAMS the Gaming Authority in Italy was on a witch hunt and they felt the Government was being Harsh and shutting down sites all over the place because they were Casino related not fully understanding that these sites sent traffic from other countries also not just Italy.

    They would simply Google Casinos sites and start shutting these down and a lot of My affiliates lost legit business.

    They thought it would be safer for them to have an Alias registered so I allowed it. I have had over Time a Few Russian Based affiliates do the same.

    It had nothing to do with Protecting there Data or being underhanded or illegal it was a pure case of protecting their business. Full Stop.

    Is that Fair ?

    This isn't something i do willy nilly its on a case by case basis and if i feel the affiliate has a fair reason i am open to assisting them.

    Please I'm not fighting with you ... Renee I enjoy your Banter just take it easy on me.
    Last edited by Miles_FTA; 1 March 2016 at 11:26 pm.

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    When we still were taking players from Italy before AAMS was introduced we had affiliates ask us to allow them to register an Alias so as to protect there sites/business from being shut down as this was there livelihood.

    AAMS the Gaming Authority in Italy was on a witch hunt and they felt the Government was being Harsh and shutting down sites all over the place because they were Casino related not fully understanding that these sites sent traffic from other countries also not just Italy.
    Were you handing their information over to the Italian government?

    Please I'm not fighting with you ... Renee I enjoy your Banter just take it easy on me.
    I'm not fighting either. I'm just asking legitimate questions.

    If someone gives me a hard time, I don't tell them to go easy on me, I reply with more facts to support my argument (hence my question above)

    As I said, if I could understand why you have your opinion, I might change my mind. So that's why I'm asking questions. I'm trying to see it from your point of view.
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  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    Renee .. I know people are not attacking me. I was simply pointing out to Gooner that I felt he was unfair in his Comments about Me , My Name etc but he did make a valid points about what i had said as i wrote it very poorly is all .i am a very agreeable person in most cases.

    Its an opinion in my 13 Years of doing this I have had a hand full maybe of people that have regsitred an Alias for the reasons i mentioned .

    When we still were taking players from Italy before AAMS was introduced we had affiliates ask us to allow them to register an Alias so as to protect there sites/business from being shut down as this was there livelihood.

    AAMS the Gaming Authority in Italy was on a witch hunt and they felt the Government was being Harsh and shutting down sites all over the place because they were Casino related not fully understanding that these sites sent traffic from other countries also not just Italy.

    They would simply Google Casinos sites and start shutting these down and a lot of My affiliates lost legit business.

    They thought it would be safer for them to have an Alias registered so I allowed it. I have had over Time a Few Russian Based affiliates do the same.

    It had nothing to do with Protecting there Data or being underhanded or illegal it was a pure case of protecting their business. Full Stop.

    Is that Fair ?

    This isn't something i do willy nilly its on a case by case basis and if i feel the affiliate has a fair reason i am open to assisting them.

    Please I'm not fighting with you ... Renee I enjoy your Banter just take it easy on me.
    Hey Miles

    How do you know that you're not being sweet talked into believing these people who want to use false details. Con-artists, fraudsters can be very convincing. Also by allowing people to register false details how do you know that you are not unwittingly involving yourself and the company you work for in a crime or in the funding of terrorism?

    I think your intentions are honorable but there are many, many people out there that will bend you over and abuse you for that kindness. You should rather only do things by the book.

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  16. #33
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    @ Renee . No we never handed anything over .When AAMS was first created to monitor the Regulated Market they were very new to the idea of what they should police and what they should let go for them if you were living in Italy and had any related business that had a hint of a Casino theme to it they would shut down the URL and not allow people to access these sites.

    AAMS did Domain searches on Sites they had shut down so they had names of people that owned sites and would then google these to see if they were connected to other people , sites etc and then shut these down.

    So ye maybe Italian affiliates were just a little nervous and wanted to protect themselves from possible legal actions as AAMS was taking a shot gun approach they have improved and gotten a lot smarter now but in the beginning they were raw and uneducated about the industry etc So we assisted affiliates and allowed them to use an alias it made them feel more conformable.

    As I say there were a hand full of affiliates only it was only to try save their business form potential issues.

    Hope this make sense ...

    @ DaftDog .. HI Sir I Knew the affiliates that asked for us to do this and in most cases had met them personally at conferences etc as we had been working with them for years .. AAMS as i say was very new and just did things off the bat blocking legit sites for no good reasons other than they say Casinos on them ...they didn't understand fully the affiliate business so again .. I never did this for anyone i never knew or had not worked with in the past we did it for a handful of affiliates we knew well.


    Last edited by Miles_FTA; 2 March 2016 at 12:39 am.

  17. #34
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    Legally change your name to the alias, get your $$$ and then change it back. (lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    What i Meant was i dont have an issue with an affiliate registering an Alias with us in order to keep his real name out of the public light for
    personal or legal reasons for example where you live in a country that has strict laws pertaining to gaming related activity and you dont want issues with governments because your an affiliate.

    As long as his banking details etc are legit and in his real name then i am fine with that and in most cases i have met them so i know they are real people.

    That is not fraud or cheating its a simple case of staying under the radar and not wanting people to know who they are .. ( Kind of like hiding your contact information when you register a domain )
    It is EXACTLY fraud - the creating of a false identity.
    If you allow this then you are creating a chain of false financial transactions.

    There is a huge difference between a private record in an affiliate site - and a public whois record of a website.
    I don't beleive that you REALLY cannot see the difference.

    In this case the perpertator lives in Ireland (probably) and has no such fears of government restriction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    Quote : you are clearly jaded and worn down by your role in this industry ...
    Please forgive me but wow for you jump to conclusions is unfair and judgmental
    When you decide to ignore proper business practice and KYC legislation - when YOU feel like it - then it's an easy conclusion to make.
    You willingly deal in lies - believe it's the price of business - if that's not a symptom of being jaded by the industry then I don't know what is.

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  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_FTA View Post
    @ Renee . No we never handed anything over .
    I'm not trying to pick on you when I say this, but this is the point I was trying to get across.
    If you're not handing their details over, then IMO there is no reason for them to enter false details/alias into the affiliate account.

    Another point I will add to this, is if every affiliate was made to put correct/real details into the account, us affiliate managers would have a far easier time catching the fraudsters - CPA fraud and all that.
    The sports guys would probably be able to find the affiliates who are hedging bets easier and then remove the quotas from the T&Cs.
    Just a thought.
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    HI Renee, Gooner

    Thanks for your input you guys make sense but I just want to set the record straight as i really think i miss communicated my opinion terribly here.

    A year or 2 Ago when AAMS began closing down affiliate sites we had exactly 3 Italian Affiliates Ask Us if they could do it.

    They came to us with an Incredible sense of fear that they would be shut down Justiefied or not and that there livelihoods would be taken away they never understood how AAMS worked and were scared. They had Kids , Houses etc and were worried if there affiliate accounts were shut down or sites closed their income would be taken.

    We knew who they were and had met them numerous times and had long standing relationships with them and wanted to assist them as they were truly fearful that the Government would come after them.

    The only reason this was done was to try assist them save there business There was NO Intention to do anything untoward.

    We Have not done this for anyone else nor will we and we take it very seriously .

    I am always contributing on Facebook and here regarding Potential Fraudulent affiliate and Dealings.

    I should have made it clear from the beginning.

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