Brands doing cross-selling

[Triple7]

What do you think about brands doing "cross selling" ?

For example an affiliate program has Casino A and Casino B. You're promoting this brands, but the program tries to take affiliate players brought to Casino A, to Casino B.

For example: i bring in a depositor to Casino A and after he has played his money, he is receiving some nice offer from Casino B. He takes it. The program has the player, but I have lost it.

What's your opinion about this?

[Fiett]

Is this the case - that you lose the player if it is cross sold to another brand in their program? I always thought that it still remained yours. Fully appreciate that there may be something in their terms that suggest otherwise!

My player account with 888 get's cross sold so many different email comms from various other brands they have - so I know they are quite aggressive with their cross selling, even whilst I'm still an active 888 user...

[-Shay-]

What do you think about brands doing "cross selling" ?

For example an affiliate program has Casino A and Casino B. You're promoting this brands, but the program tries to take affiliate players brought to Casino A, to Casino B.

For example: i bring in a depositor to Casino A and after he has played his money, he is receiving some nice offer from Casino B. He takes it. The program has the player, but I have lost it.

What's your opinion about this?

If a brand does this to us (without giving us credit) - they're removed. It is that simple.

[Syndicate]

Assuming its R/S basis it's wrong - since it's ''circumvention''.

If someone does that pull the plug and move on - that's my advice anyway!

[F-L-C]

Brands cross selling should still tag them to you, if one is not then you should name them

[Doolally]

I'd say most don't tag them to you.

Name, shame and remove.

[sweetbet]

The program should still tag the player to your account, but if it redirects the player to another casino and doesn't give you credit for it, then that would be stealing.

[agsgroup]

Might be a silly question but how can you <easily> see if they do this? Sign up yourselves and investigate?

[F-L-C]

I think signing up yourself to test would be the best way

[Triple7]

Ok, an update from me. No names so far. First I want to get some opinions here before 'name and shame' , while perhaps I am making a problem of nothing or perhaps I do see things very negative. We're talking here about a program with a good name, not of known dodgy programs.

Testing accounts are essential input for a good online casino review and judging if an affiliate program is trustable. With a testing account you can see with your own eyes, how fast a payout is made. Also when you make a deposit, you’ll see it in the stats. It’s a little check for the affiliate program too. It's ok to play slots and get info for a slot review. Anyway, it's good for a lot of things.

Surprise was quite big when in the mailbox of the mail address of a Casino A testaccount, an e-mail message of Casino B was received. It was obvious sign-up ‘spam’. ‘Spam’ and not spam, because as an account holder for sure somewhere I have given them the permission to cross sell. This was obvious a cross-sell. It was a mail to promote the sign-up bonus of Casino B and the ‘call to action’ was to sign up there. It was sent just when the Casino A account has run out of money.

First I opened this thread to check what other people think about this. In my opinion this is like stealing players. Without promotion of Casino A, they would not have this player at Casino B now, so they should pay some commission about it. I also asked some affiliate managers about this and they agreed with me. The next thing was to find out if perhaps a commission is paid out. Theoretically it was possible that this affiliate program never mentioned anything about such things, but are putting my tag on their brand new Casino B players and pay me commission. I want to find that out first. Maybe this would be also an explanation for the retention numbers of Casino A that are dramatically in my eyes.

So I asked one of their account managers – a new one – if commission is paid if Casino A players after a cross-sell sign up and deposit at Casino B. I guess this guy was busy, on holidays or he didn’t consider the e-mail worth replying. I got no answer from him. Then I sent an e-mail to Chief Operations a.k.a. the big boss there. I got a reply stating that “They do not cross sell between brands. When they start to do this, my tag will carry over. At the moment the two brands are treated separately. So, if a player wanted to register at Casino B(after already playing at Casino A through your link) the player would have to go through a link again in order for you or any other affiliate to earn commission from his 2^nd account.

That’s weird and obvious not true, because a Casino B mail was received in a mail account that was used for a Casino A-account and coincidentally right after the money in the account was lost after some Starburst-spins. So, what he is stating here is not correct.

So, I’ve send a mail to Chief Operator over there to tell him it’s weird than that without having an account at Casino B, a bonus offer of Casino B was received in a mailbox used for a Casino A account. A welcome bonus way better than a simple reload bonus at Casino A. Then things are getting weirder and it seems Chief Operator is falling from one lie into another.

He replied with “Thanks for letting me know”, the statement that it’s a mistake on the part of his email team who sent offers to the wrong list this week and a promise that it won’t happen again. That’s weird because of three things:
1) It did not happen this week. It did happen way earlier.
2) It was not a regular bonus offer with a reload bonus, but a 100% spammy welcome bonus offer mail with a call to action to sign up at Casino B.
3) The mail was not sent to the wrong list. The content and the design was 100% Casino B and not Casino A

I mentioned this in an e-mail to this program. Reply is now: If it was happening earlier as well I was not aware of it. I'm aware of it now so it will stop. Then I got a reply that it is an error on their side, that they apologized as soon as I informed them and they have put measures in place, so they are sure it won't happen again.

[-Shay-]

Ok, an update from me. No names so far. First I want to get some opinions here before 'name and shame' , while perhaps I am making a problem of nothing or perhaps I do see things very negative. We're talking here about a program with a good name, not of known dodgy programs.

Testing accounts are essential input for a good online casino review and judging if an affiliate program is trustable. With a testing account you can see with your own eyes, how fast a payout is made. Also when you make a deposit, you’ll see it in the stats. It’s a little check for the affiliate program too. It's ok to play slots and get info for a slot review. Anyway, it's good for a lot of things.

Surprise was quite big when in the mailbox of the mail address of a Casino A testaccount, an e-mail message of Casino B was received. It was obvious sign-up ‘spam’. ‘Spam’ and not spam, because as an account holder for sure somewhere I have given them the permission to cross sell. This was obvious a cross-sell. It was a mail to promote the sign-up bonus of Casino B and the ‘call to action’ was to sign up there. It was sent just when the Casino A account has run out of money.

First I opened this thread to check what other people think about this. In my opinion this is like stealing players. Without promotion of Casino A, they would not have this player at Casino B now, so they should pay some commission about it. I also asked some affiliate managers about this and they agreed with me. The next thing was to find out if perhaps a commission is paid out. Theoretically it was possible that this affiliate program never mentioned anything about such things, but are putting my tag on their brand new Casino B players and pay me commission. I want to find that out first. Maybe this would be also an explanation for the retention numbers of Casino A that are dramatically in my eyes.

So I asked one of their account managers – a new one – if commission is paid if Casino A players after a cross-sell sign up and deposit at Casino B. I guess this guy was busy, on holidays or he didn’t consider the e-mail worth replying. I got no answer from him. Then I sent an e-mail to Chief Operations a.k.a. the big boss there. I got a reply stating that “They do not cross sell between brands. When they start to do this, my tag will carry over. At the moment the two brands are treated separately. So, if a player wanted to register at Casino B(after already playing at Casino A through your link) the player would have to go through a link again in order for you or any other affiliate to earn commission from his 2^nd account.

That’s weird and obvious not true, because a Casino B mail was received in a mail account that was used for a Casino A-account and coincidentally right after the money in the account was lost after some Starburst-spins. So, what he is stating here is not correct.

So, I’ve send a mail to Chief Operator over there to tell him it’s weird than that without having an account at Casino B, a bonus offer of Casino B was received in a mailbox used for a Casino A account. A welcome bonus way better than a simple reload bonus at Casino A. Then things are getting weirder and it seems Chief Operator is falling from one lie into another.

He replied with “Thanks for letting me know”, the statement that it’s a mistake on the part of his email team who sent offers to the wrong list this week and a promise that it won’t happen again. That’s weird because of three things:
1) It did not happen this week. It did happen way earlier.
2) It was not a regular bonus offer with a reload bonus, but a 100% spammy welcome bonus offer mail with a call to action to sign up at Casino B.
3) The mail was not sent to the wrong list. The content and the design was 100% Casino B and not Casino A

I mentioned this in an e-mail to this program. Reply is now: If it was happening earlier as well I was not aware of it. I'm aware of it now so it will stop. Then I got a reply that it is an error on their side, that they apologized as soon as I informed them and they have put measures in place, so they are sure it won't happen again.

Sounds like someone stepped in some poop with their responses.

This to me is shady, shady, shady - all day long shady.

Programs should understand that if they are going to cross promote, a way to starve off any argument at all is to put the affiliate tags in the emails. That way, there's no trust issues and no question - either the code is there or it isn't.

That aside, it is possible that these were unauthorized emails and that he is tap dancing because he didn't know. It is also possible that he knew and authorized them.

It is long overdue - name and shame.

[universal4]

Or it could just be that somewhere along the line someone sold your email account and it was plain old spam from a spamming affiliate. Even of it appeared on the surface to come from the casino directly as many spammers certainly make their spam appear that way.

Do you still have the original mail that you can verify the header matches ip and hostname etc from other mails that came direct from them?

I am not trying to say this was not the casino doing this, but this would help pin down whether it was.

Rick
Universal4

[thebookiesoffers]

Or it could just be that somewhere along the line someone sold your email account and it was plain old spam from a spamming affiliate. Even of it appeared on the surface to come from the casino directly as many spammers certainly make their spam appear that way.

Do you still have the original mail that you can verify the header matches ip and hostname etc from other mails that came direct from them?

I am not trying to say this was not the casino doing this, but this would help pin down whether it was.

Rick
Universal4

i thought the possibility of that as well reading the above

can only say the only time I've noticed cross selling was from my casinoluck account to nextcasino, and players were tagged. obviously they should be tracked as well

[Triple7]

Unfortunately I do not have the mail anymore. That's one of the reasons I did not name & shame yet. But to me, it does not seem the case. The mail was sent just a minute or something after the money at the account at Casino A was lost and the affiliate manager does confirm such mails are sent. I agree with Shay that the of replying is the way of someone that stepped in the poop.

[GCG]

you can always say "most likely" this program does this but you need to check yourself.......

[Triple7]

True that. The answers by mail are answers of someone stepping in the poop and since the beginning it smelled like that. So, be aware of Full Cream Affiliates. To me it seems they're cross-selling between their brands, without putting the tag when a player signs up for their other brand. I am not 100% sure, but it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck and it quacks like a duck.

[GCG]

full?cream skims the cream of your profits LOL
never liked the program name just to good (funny) to be true

[Triple7]

Lol.

Actually they do have a nice commission plan. 60% for new affiliates and up to 55% in the basic scheme for existing affiliates. But... if they do like it seem they do, I understand they can afford such high commissions.

[BestNetent]

Lol you're talking about Europartners? That is in their style with Europa and Tropes etc. They even can offer free money for sign up.

[Triple7]

Lol you're talking about Europartners? That is in their style with Europa and Tropes etc. They even can offer free money for sign up.

Nope, it's not them. I never worked with them, so honestly no idea, but I guess more programs do this kind of cross selling.