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  1. #1
    Professor's Avatar
    Professor is offline In Memoriam, 1963-2010
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    Default Casino Coins Changes Terms

    I just received the following message:

    Dear Webmaster,

    Casino Coins is writing you to announce an update of our
    official Webmaster Agreement. We are pleased to let you know
    that we have added provisions in the terms and conditions that
    will help you to get the most out of your efforts in
    our affiliate program.

    As you know, the most important key to affiliate success is
    the consistent referral of new, paying customers to our
    sponsoring casinos, and the changes in our Webmaster Agreement
    are meant to reflect this. We also want you to know that we are
    here to support you, and that your Personal Affiliate Manager
    can help you to set, meet and surpass targets for new players.

    For more details on the updated Webmaster Agreement, please
    visit the Casino Coins website at:

    http://www.casinocoins.com/terms.html


    Thank you and keep up the great work!




    Can one of you T&C experts tell me whats changed and what this means.

    :rof:

  2. #2
    OCP
    OCP is offline Public Member
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    Default

    I think they were referring to this bullsh*t

    In order for the Webmaster to keep an active account, the Webmaster is required to bring to the Client's Casino(s) total new players equaling at least 25% of the Webmaster's total new player accounts from the previous 90 days. The average spend of the players must be at least $150

    New webmasters are expected to meet this target in their 4th month.

    For an affiliate account to remain active, it must have generated new paying customers for Casino Coins sponsors within the previous 90 days.

    If an affiliate account does not meet the above requirement, the following process will take place:

    The Casino Coins manager will contact the affiliate with a set target for new customers for the upcoming month(s).
    The Casino Coins manager will contact the affiliate on a monthly basis to discuss account status and evaluate performance.
    When the affiliate account reaches the set target, all previously held payments will be released. The affiliate will receive the outstanding amount within the first week of the following month

  3. #3
    OCP
    OCP is offline Public Member
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    Default

    BTW - I'm not a T&C expert :LOL:

  4. #4
    VPJunkie is offline Private Member
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    Default

    What this means is that a previous very poorly written clause in their contract, has now been rewritten to provide them with even more options to legally screw us out of our commissions and our players.

    We are not happy about this, and many of our members are currently pulling their casinos off their sites.

    We may move our private thread down here, and we WILL be writing them to protest.

  5. #5
    DVS007 is offline Private Member
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    Default

    They seem to have taken down the new T&C page for the time being although its probably too late in most cases. I think they may have cooked their goose on this one.... Lets see..... out of all the casinos I currently promote which one has the worst click to conversion ratio.... CASINO COINS... and is it my fault? I doubt it. I know they didnt ask my opinion when they did the site redesigns so I definetely do not feel responsible for their inability to convert visitors into players.

    Amazing that they want to hold webmasters responsible for their own shortcomings in order to withhold commissions from past players. This is a move that reeks of desperation. When I signed with Casino Coins they stated that the players were my players for life. Changing the rules halfway thru the game is not fair. I just hope CasinoProphet makes them enough money because I have a feeling from what Ive seen posted and the emails I have recieved that he may be the only portal left supporting them by the time this is over.

  6. #6
    VPJunkie is offline Private Member
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    Default

    Their conversion ratios are WAY below norm for me, and it's not my fault. I can only pre-sell and send the traffic. The rest is up to them, and I told them that last week.

  7. #7
    deaning is offline Public Member
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    Default

    T & C? More like stick your knob in a guillotine!

    I reeks of last ditch desperation to me. I had been impressed with their webmaster resources of late and was on the verge of resurrecting them. Conversions had started again after 3 months of zilch.

    If I earn my money I damn well want it!

    Is another Silver City in the wind? Methinks yes.

  8. #8
    Dominique's Avatar
    Dominique is offline Private Member
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    Default changes

    Even the new, softer version is harmful to many portals, and especially new ones.
    Just try entering the business in spring, have the credit cards cut off and then move into a very slow summer. You are bound to have a bad start.

    Now add in a meddling affiliate program "counselling" you and withholding what little money you may be making from players you referred previously. You may as well just pack it in. Any money they encourage you to spend on promos is pretty much useless when the season is slow and the program doesn't convert.

    I want the freedom to allocate my funds as I see fit, and right now I see fit to concentrate on big promotions in the fall, once the weather turns bad. I'll use the interim to primp and polish my site. This is my decision to make and nobody else has a right to tell me how to conduct my business.

    My job is to send you players. Your job is to induce them to sign up. That's it.

    And offering well established portals "special deals" at the expense of the already floundering newbie is outrageous!

    There is another clause in there concerning giving exactly equal exposure to casino coins casinos as you do to any others, including giving appropriate additional info about them. In effect that means that you can't feature any casino you like in a "casino of the month" feature without also featuring a casino coins casino in the same manner.

    Last time I looked the net was a place of freedom.

    Casino Coins Casinos are good casinos, and I don't doubt that Casino Coins has been an honest program, but if this is not resolved they are coming off my sites. I cannot afford to promote them under the circumstances. Once I do take them down, if they can show me a plan as to how they can better convert the traffic sent to them, I may consider reinstating their banners and text links after they pay a processing fee.

    I think the casino affiliate programs should think about what would happen if they didn't have us, if they had to pay 8 bucks a hit of good traffic. Even the small newbie is sending lots of cash your way - for free! You owe us, not the other way around.

  9. #9
    ElDeano is offline Public Member
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    Default

    I am a newbie at this bigtime and only launched just under 4 weeks ago. I put them on my site with 4 of their casinos and have received some click throughs but no downloads yet. I have only had them up for maybe 2 weeks. I am not in the search engines yet but have gotten several downloads on other casinos and have a handful of active players already so it is critical to me to know whether or not I am getting myself into major trouble starting with Casino Coins. SlyCin can you let me know what resolves of this or anyone that corresponds with them regarding this, I am still learning the T&C and what alot of this means so unless I hear it from someone here, I will also pull them from my site. It's hard enough struggling right now to get known... thanks all

  10. #10
    Dominique's Avatar
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    Default casino coins

    When you send people to a casino, you are investing in your future. Sooner or later some will sign up. With most casino affiliate programs, you "own the player for life", meaning that as long as your referral plays, the casino pays.

    This is the one thing that helps you through slow months and downturns, like when the credit cards wouldn't pay anymore, or in the slow summer months. Your established players carry you through.

    Casino coins has changed the contract midway down the midway. Now, if you are having a slow time, they will take away those established players and you will never see them again.

    When you are already strapped, they will take all your income from you. That means that you are out. No money to advertise with.

    Casino coins to my knowledge are the only ones pulling this now, and there are lots of good, honest programs out there who will stick by you instead of giving you a deadly blow.

    I recommend you stick with those who stick with you!

  11. #11
    Professor's Avatar
    Professor is offline In Memoriam, 1963-2010
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    Default

    I spoke with Connie this morning and you can expect further work on the T&C.

    Casino Coins position is that the modifications were only meant to encourage webmasters to persue new players. They have no intention of removing old players.

    The players you recruit are yours for life and that hasn't/won't be changed.

    Their concern was that there are people who hadn't been promoting Casino Coins for some time and they were still collecting commission checks. They wanted a way to incentivize inactive affiliates to come back to Casino Coins and promote their clients. Viewed in that light, the basic premise makes sense.

    The wording of the Terms and Conditions were updated to reflect this goal. Unfortunately they caused a good bit of concern among webmasters (myself included). I believe you will see appropriate changes made to more accurately cover this objective.

    Hope this helps and let's keep an eye on things and see what develops.

  12. #12
    DVS007 is offline Private Member
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    Default

    Incentivizing and threatening are two different things. Im glad to see they understand that and are adjusting the T&C.

  13. #13
    Casino Coins is offline Public Member
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    Default Clarification

    Hi everyone,

    I apologize for the delay in responding to your concerns. Thank you Professor for clarifying Casino Coins' objective behind the recent adjustment of our Terms and Conditions. To make sure that everyone is 100% clear, please DO NOT WORRY:

    1) Casino Coins WILL continue to pay you the commissions that you earn from your players -- NEW AND OLD. YOU WILL continue to keep them for life.

    2) With the adjustment of the Terms and Conditions, we wanted to encourage inactive affiliates to put more effort into acquiring new customers. The 'inactive affiliates' we are referring to are the ones:
    a) who do not post our sponsoring casinos' banners on their sites and who do not send any mailing i.e. show no sign of advertising effort
    b) who once acquired a few customers but stopped all advertising activities over the past few months i.e. solely relying on profit made from VERY old customers

    BUT AGAIN, we will still pay all of the above affiliates. All we are trying to say is: The Casino Coins team will try their best to help affiliates in acquiring new customers. It needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship.

    We do apologize for the mis-understanding caused by the first revision of our Terms and Conditions, and the document has now been further revised. Below shows the newly revised version, which can also be found on www.casinocoins.com


    "For an affiliate account to be considered "active", it must have generated new, paying customers for Casino Coins' sponsors within the previous 90 days.

    If an affiliate account does not meet the above requirement, a Casino Coins Personal Account Manager will contact that affiliate and partner with them to develop an action plan to improve performance. "

    Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.

    Thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Flora Chan

    Business Development Manager
    Casino Coins
    fchan@casinocoins.com
    Flora Chan
    Business Development Manager
    Casino Coins
    www.casinocoins.com

  14. #14
    Velveeta is offline Public Member
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    Default

    Flora, what happened to Silver City and are you in financial trouble?

  15. #15
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    Default what then?

    Hi Flora,

    What happens if the affiliate can't afford to follow your suggestions?

    What if the affiliate disagrees with the proposed action?

    What if he follows it to the letter and it makes no difference?

    What if he can't afford to put your casinos in top position because they don't convert as well for him?

    We all know that there are slow spells, like summer time. Will that be taken into consideration?

    Are you saying that you don't want visitors that are sent by affiliates whose players have not converted for you?

  16. #16
    FictionNet is offline Closed by Request
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    Default

    Casino Coins have been permanently wiped from all my sites. They have always had appalling conversion rates and now try to implement ridiculous t&c. Um... no thanks. I can do without this type of 'outfit'.

  17. #17
    Casino Coins is offline Public Member
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    Default

    Hi there,

    In response to Dominique's questions, I think the key is: webmasters and the Casino Coins team need to have on-going communications in order to establish a win-win situation i.e. share ideas, feedback, obstacles and opportunities together so that action can be taken in order to solve problems and to increase profit.

    As a team, we are more than happy to help webmasters on individual basis. For example, if there's a specific banner size that you want, we can create them for you. Very often, it could be the type of advertising that affects conversion. Another example, if you would like to run a sweepstake contest on your site to attract more quality players, please contact one of us and we can custom create a program for you to help conversion too.

    All we want is to HELP, not to take away anything from the affiliates at all. If conversion decreases or summer months being slow, Casino Coins totally understand. But we must work together -- in order to grow both our revenue.

    We are also trying hard pushing the casino operator re: conversion issues, lately based on affiliates' and our request, they have shown great improvement with their offering of additional payment options.

    So if conversion is bad, let's hear from you and we will ask the casinos to fix it.

    Bottom line: the T&C is to re-inforce the point that Casino Coins is here to help. Affiliates that have slow performance should feel confident as our staff will not ignore you, but rather, we'd like to establish one-to-one assistance.

    Hope this helps.

    Flora

    PS: and no, we are NOT in any form of financial trouble. In fact June was a great month for us! Keep up the good work everyone!
    Flora Chan
    Business Development Manager
    Casino Coins
    www.casinocoins.com

  18. #18
    VPJunkie is offline Private Member
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    Default

    Hi Flora,
    THANK YOU for coming to the board and handling this with us!! k: That alone shows us your intentions.

    I'm very concerned about my conversions, particularly with AllPoker, which is a "natural" for my site, and your new multi-hand games are GREAT!!.

    I think my 1st suggestion here - actually my only one - is a complete site redesign. The current design, while cute, is VERY confusing for navigation, even for the internet savvy. Throw a newbie in there, and we can hang it up. I think it would make a world of difference in conversions, for me anyway. And if you need a good designer, let us know!!

  19. #19
    Velveeta is offline Public Member
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    Default

    Flora, thanks for answering my question.

    No casino or affiliate group is going to admit that they are in financial trouble. However, I am inclined to believe that your casino group is in trouble because:

    1. Most affiliates say that Casino Coins no longer produces well for them and
    2. Your group dropped Silver City with no warning.

    Simply put, NO ONE drops a profitable program. Additionally, anytime a group does wacky things, such as make odd requirements, that says something about the group. What is going on with the odd casino transfers from Silver City to Casino Coins? Why would you guys put up a rule like that in the first place?

    Too many odd things are going on and that should be enough for all of us to reduce risk and minimize Casino Coins banners.

  20. #20
    Dominique's Avatar
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    Default rewrite

    Hi Flora,

    thanks for replying.

    That sounds a lot nicer and more agreeable.

    Does that mean that the clause will be rewritten to remove the objectionable "inactive" classification?

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