New warnings and polls - PLEASE VOTE

[thepokerkeep]

This morning I have posted 2 warnings on the GAU website. The first warning applies to Star Partners and is in response to the various complaints that have been brought forward by our members. Please take the time to read our report and vote on this very important issue.

Read and vote here!


The second warning is regarding Bwin's new affiliate program, Bewinners, and their new (retroactive) terms and conditions. We believe these terms are some of the worst ever imposed on affiliates and strongly urge all members to speak out on this very important matter.

Read and vote here!

NOTE
If you are not yet a member of the GAU, please join the Gambling Affiliates Union now so you can have your say. Membership is free to all gambling affiliates. You must be a registered GAU member in order to vote.

[thepokerkeep]

Just a quick bump to remind members to pop over to GAU and cast your votes. Both current polls close on October 16.

[mojo]

I voted!

[thepokerkeep]

I voted!

I saw that, thank you my dear!

[Former Member 14]

Terry you have a PM at AGD


Cheers



Dave

[pjotter]

Just voted!

Thanks for your efforts!!

[Betpartners]

Just voted Terry and voted no

Wish there was a third option that said shall we put Bwin on warning and try to work with them to change their ways etc.

But the choice between rogue and not rogue at this stage was too clear cut for me, Budapest is starting and affiliates speaking with them face to face may have made a difference, we dont know yet,

Making Bwin rogue should be a last resort and i just do not think we are at that stage yet.

[thepokerkeep]

Just voted Terry and voted no

Wish there was a third option that said shall we put Bwin on warning and try to work with them to change their ways etc.

But the choice between rogue and not rogue at this stage was too clear cut for me, Budapest is starting and affiliates speaking with them face to face may have made a difference, we dont know yet,

Making Bwin rogue should be a last resort and i just do not think we are at that stage yet.

I considered a third option but decided that they are already on warning - you just have to read the threads and posts in all the forums to see that. And since they've clearly stated in one of the threads here that they aren't going to change the terms.... I figured the choices were pretty clear - accept the new terms or rogue them.

Hopefully, the negative publicity we are creating will force them to change their minds. If the GAU membership clearly indicates they believe bewinners is rogue, perhaps that will add even more pressure. I'm also waiting for AGD to post the rogue warnings on their forum as Andy has indicated is going to happen.

I respect that there are affiliates who have no choice but to continue working with Bwin due to the financial barrel Bwin has them over. But, I don't think there is one affiliate who is happy about it.

Hopefully, our action, and the actions of others, will force Bwin to rethink this stupid decision. Judging by the responses we've had from Bwin, the only way to win this fight is to take the gloves off and go at it "bare knuckle".

[Betpartners]

I considered a third option but decided that they are already on warning - you just have to read the threads and posts in all the forums to see that. And since they've clearly stated in one of the threads here that they aren't going to change the terms.... I figured the choices were pretty clear - accept the new terms or rogue them.

Hopefully, the negative publicity we are creating will force them to change their minds. If the GAU membership clearly indicates they believe bewinners is rogue, perhaps that will add even more pressure. I'm also waiting for AGD to post the rogue warnings on their forum as Andy has indicated is going to happen.

I respect that there are affiliates who have no choice but to continue working with Bwin due to the financial barrel Bwin has them over. But, I don't think there is one affiliate who is happy about it.

Hopefully, our action, and the actions of others, will force Bwin to rethink this stupid decision. Judging by the responses we've had from Bwin, the only way to win this fight is to take the gloves off and go at it "bare knuckle".

Fair response Terry, i still however maintain that going the rogue route should be the last option and as stated i just do not feel we are at that stage yet, but i understand and respect the position you have taken along with other webmasters,

I am not happy with what they have done and i am in no way over the barrel financially with them and certainly will not lose out on any revenue, i have not even checked out the new system, so my point of view is not coming from a loyal affiliate or hands tied affiliate.

I have zero doubts that if anything i have lost out with older players, but for webmasters like me, however much in the minority i am, an option to wait and see before going the rogue route would make it so much easier to have voted and felt satisfied with the vote i took.

As things stand i wanted to vote, i am an early member of the GAU as you know and wanted to register my point of view, but given the choices at hand and the fact that i was not prepared to abstain, i had no option but to vote the way i did due to the choices in front of me.

A up or down vote with no other options available in my opinion did not need to be the only choices presented.

[thepokerkeep]

I do respect your opinion and appreciate your feedback. If I could have found another reasonable option for the poll, I would have added it. But what I see here is pretty cut and dried. Bwin has retroactively changed their terms to the point where they are obviously extremely predatory.

Another concern I have is the trend we are seeing this year. More than a few programs are changing their affiliate T&C's in an obvious effort to reduce our commissions. Each time we let one of them get away with it, another program jumps on the band wagon.

The only way to stop this trend is by making an example of one of the big programs. By taking a hard stance early and keeping the pressure on them through continued negative publicity, we have a better chance of forcing them to cave.

Since Bwin is obviously trying to impose some of the most predatory terms i've ever seen, and they are a fairly big player in the industry, they are the perfect program to make an example of. If we can bring Bwin to their knees and force them to change their minds on this, other programs will maybe think twice before going down the same road. And judging by the reaction from the affiliate community, I'm not the only one who has grown tired of programs making up the rules as they go along with no regard for their affiliate partners.

Back to the poll options...
If you have an idea for the wording of a third option, I'd love to hear it. I agree with you, the polls should give every member an option to vote the way they feel is right so I would love to add a third and even fourth option to future polls.

[Betpartners]

Again very fair comments Terry,

I agree th principle behind what you are doing is spot on, i am also fed up with all the crap about changing Terms and conditions and like you, i also see a trend here.

My concern was primarily with the choices on offer for the vote and you have addressed that, and i thank you, all polls are different due to circumstances so cannot really say what future polls should say, just on this one i felt a warning option would have been viable, even a timeline option, like shall we give Bwin 60 days to revert their terms etc.

My main concern about this Bwin situation is two fold, one i am debating in another thread about attacking every post they do and thus denying webmasters that want to work with them still, the opportunity to comment or ask questions, the other concern was this poll and the choices presented.

You have responded as i expected Terry and that is appreciated,

Thanks for that

[bb1web]

Just a note on general principal rather than on this particular situation.

I respect that there are affiliates who have no choice but to continue working with Bwin due to the financial barrel Bwin has them over

Been there, done that, of course with some other sponsor. But in the end you have to ask yourself:

Do I want to lose little, or lose big?

Because in these situations you are truly throwing good money after bad if you allow yourself to kept in the cycle.

Common sense demands that at some point, you're going to lose, either by not meeting their current demand, or later when they tighten the screws even further.

NEVER! believe when you are told "we're only this one time."

"we won't change them again".

Those are as empty of a bunch of promises as were the first ones the program has reneged on.

Sometimes, you just have to accept you're going to take it on the chin. Just a matter of how much force is behind the blow.

** all due respect to everyone. I feel very confident about the above being a correct assumption of such matters.

[mojo]

Another concern I have is the trend we are seeing this year. More than a few programs are changing their affiliate T&C's in an obvious effort to reduce our commissions. Each time we let one of them get away with it, another program jumps on the band wagon.

The only way to stop this trend is by making an example of one of the big programs. By taking a hard stance early and keeping the pressure on them through continued negative publicity, we have a better chance of forcing them to cave.

Absolutly agree. It has become very serious for affiliates and what we have been doing is not having an effect. If anything, it seems to be prompting more problems.

We've always tried talking it out but it stretches on and on and usually it just peters out. By taking action first (after a reasonable attempt to work it out) we can still continue talking it out. The GPWA would certainly allow that whether they are a sponsor or not. It's up to the program to work with us.

It they are unwilling to try to reconcile then very often that would be the case from the beginning anyway.

[thepokerkeep]

Our campaign against Bwin is just heating up. I know Michael, Anthony and crew have spoken with them and I hope they have good news to report. I also know there is another person making an effort to resolve this and again, I hope to hear good news from him tomorrow. BUT - we are not waiting for these reports, I have published a Bwin Rogue page on affaid.com and am adding links there to other Bwin/bewinners rogue pages. Please (everyone) send me links to your rogue pages and I'll add them ASAP.

I also know there is a website coming online this week that is dedicated to exposing bewinners as a rogue affiliate program.

I'm committed to making an example of Bwin. I hope others here feel as I do and join my campaign.