Dancing Around the Truth About CardSpike

[Caruso]

Vinism,

I must be confused about the nature of a white label / skin operation.

As I understood it, a white label is a glorified affiliate. The affiliate site, which masquerades as a casino / pokerroom etc, promotes only that one property. It "appears" to be the casino etc, but is in reality an affiliate site. The affiliated person receives affiliate income. There'll also be other matters that would not arise for a standard affiliate, as suggested in the proposal, branding etc.

Lou said he had no ownership etc interests. So I thought, maybe the point is that question of ownership doesn't arise, on the basis of the affiliate nature of the white label, and that this was therefore Lou's point, his attempt to skate around the truth.

I was SUGGESTING that this was the scenario. Hence the question mark at the end. It made sense to me.

If I run a skin for Cake Poker, what are my actual contractual rights? If I run Cake skin Hundredpercentcaruso.com, do I "own" anything? What? I'm referring to my actual contract rights, not the broad sense. You mention above the proposal as a "licensing agreement" (which I basically agree with): is the skin affiliate the licensee of the skin, the same (in an ownership sense) as the licensee of a normal casino, notwithstanding the different contractual arrangement?

And for that matter, has anyone at least asked Cake Poker for comment? Obviously there are confidentiality issues, but there might be a carefully-worded question out there.

b. CardSpike was indeed a client of Effective Media.
c. The person who was operating as CardSpike's affiliate manager was employed by CardSpike.
d. Affiliate marketing material for CardSpike indicated it had been sent by Effective Media.

This Greg Powell, the one who apparentrly worked for Effective Media while "affiliate managing" Cardspike: is this connection documented? I have the connection between Effective Media and Absolute Slots (B. Whidden), but I don't recall seeing a document of Powell's EM connection. However, I heard about it on the APCW report. Is the connection publically available? Maybe another PDF file, or a screenshot or something? Is it a private source? I watched that video again yesterday, where J.T. writes the stuff on his whiteboard outside the Stratosphere, and I was scratching my head trying to think where the Powell / EM connection was documented.

[CityGuard]

This Greg Powell, the one who apparentrly worked for Effective Media while "affiliate managing" Cardspike: is this connection documented?

This was documented in a few ways, although I am not able to link to the threads/videos where the documentation was released without more time than I have available right now. The documentation included:
1) An Effective Media email address listed for Greg on Cardspike's CAP certified program page.
2) Effective Media listed as Greg's employer on his LinkedIn profile.

[vinism]

Caruso,

I believe there are more than a few documents floating around with the Greg Powell-Effective Media connection. One of these examples can be seen in the latest APCW video. Watch between 3:37 and 3:51. As for your other question....

Let's say you owned Caruso Poker, and you were licensing Cake Poker software. What would you get? Under the proposal outlined by Cake, you would get a poker client and complete back-end support. The poker client would be customized to your specifications. And you would get custom features to distinguish YOURSELF from the competition. And as a fee for their work, Cake would take a % of the revenue. But Caruso Poker would be owned by YOU. And if you ever decided that you needed to switch networks, you would be able to move YOUR poker room onto other software.

I'm not sure if I've answered your question Caruso, but I hope I've come close. And please note, the all CAPS parts were emphasis only, and not any other reasons.

[ppw]

not sure I completely understand...(sorry)

So if I owned caruso poker and was on cake network, i could switch to say microgaming network..., but surely all i would own is the domain name... am i being thick here (sorry again) or is that the point?

[Caruso]

Thank you for the video reference, that was the one bit I was missing. I've snagged some screenshots and pasted them into my report (which gives it a nice bit of colour as well, LOL). I certainly watched the video previously, but wasn't sure at the time if I'd missed an actual document where this had been aired.

Yes, I agree that the contract appears to represent effective ownership, and I had already said as much in my report; in my scenario above I was trying to tie each party's statements together in a coherent manner. I still think that Lou was arguing legalistic technicalities when he denied CAP ownership interests. Whether or not that was correct or not, according to the absolute letter of the law...well, whatever. It's pretty academic.

I'm glad that the initial comments that sparked all this off, about "beneficial ownership", seem to have now been vindicated. At the time I said I didn't think Michael would go out on such a precarious limb without very clear evidence, and that much has been demonstrated to be the case.

[Anti-Corruption]

Online Gambling Site Owner, Jolly, Begs Reporters To Stop Reporting

Hmm.

[Anti-Corruption]

<url=http: www.onlinecasinoadvisory.com="" casino-news="" online="" casino-affiliate-programs-busted-42513.htm="">CAP Scandal Mushrooms Into Online Gambling Industry Debacle</url=http:>

Lou Fabiano Removed from CAC Board of Advisors

[mojo]

TY A-C. I would like to be kept informed on this extremely important issue to every single one of us.

[Jinnia]

Anti-Corrupions link to the 911 article, isn't Ticonderoga Ventures, Inc. the
conference agent for Yorktown Ventures, Inc. which Mark Lesnick owns?

[Caruso]

Now we have established to a strong degree of certainly the CAP / EM involvement in Cardspike, one or two questions come to mind:

1) Generally, why did they run a rogue operation in the first place?

2) Why did they not pay their OWN KIND (affiliates)? Was it because of the perception of the power they had over them, ie. anyone who complains gets his cyber kneecaps removed, and as such they actually didn't HAVE to pay? If that is so, how many other rogue operations is CAP running? LOL. Might be worth while finding THAT one out.

3) Why are Fabiano (not "Fabiono", G911) and Jolly not dealing with this? Why is Dominique pretty much covering for them? It's pathetic. CAP were running this place, not paying their own members (FF's sake) and now someone ELSE is left to volunteer for the job of sorting it out. Why? Beneath Lou and Warren's pride?

[mojo]

I have posted this at Casinomeister and Gia and will copy it here. Only because it's what I feel fwiw:

I think many of us are angry that we are ALL put in this awkward position in the first place. No matter who steps up. No offense intended Dom. We all know it was Lou and Warren who landed us here in the first place. What we really need first and foremost is:

1. CardSpike payments made
2. Full transparancy on the CardSpike/CAP relationship
3. Full transparancy on the Absolute Slots/Effective Media/Cap relationship
4. Disclosure on any other properties Effective Media and/or Cap have interest in.

Only then can Cap begin to rebuild.

[Jinnia]

Anti-Corruptions link to the 911 article, isn't Ticonderoga Ventures, Inc. the
conference agent for Yorktown Ventures, Inc. which Mark Lesnick owns?

Making post a bit more clear:

Posted by Anti-Corrupt:
http://www.gambling911.com/gambling-...rs-012709.html

Ticonderoga Ventures, Inc. mentioned in the article, IS the conference
logistics agent for Yorktown Ventures, Inc. which Marc Lesnick owns.

Yorktown Ventures, Inc., its conference logistics agent
(Ticonderoga Ventures, Inc.), the creator(s) and/or caretaker(s) of the
website and its hyperlinks may have received financial remuneration in the
form of cash and/or securities for advertisements and promotions at the
Street Dice Conference event.
http://www.streetdice.com/disclaim.php

Check Here::
Yorktown Ventures, Inc.


It is Lesnicks phone number given for Ticonderoga Venture, Inc. also::


Marketing and Logistics Representative
Ticonderoga Ventures, Inc.
Tel: USA +1 212-7xx-xxxx
Fax: USA +1 208-7xx-xxxx
E-mail: info-09(at)socialnetworkingconference(dot)com

I removed the phone number, but it is Lesnicks personal number.

Media Relations:
Mark Brooks
Social Networking Watch
Tel: USA +1 212-4xx-xxxx

[Nandakishore]

No matter who steps up. No offense intended Dom. We all know it was Lou and Warren who landed us here in the first place.

I sincerely hope that Dom manages to lift the bans and open the CAP forum for a free discourse of all matters. Only then the credibility of CAP will be restored, and that is in all our interest.

[Caruso]

Greg Powell, of Cardspike / Effective Media fame, offers an endorsement to Fabiano:

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...3&postcount=55

I think it's time for me to step in here and make a post as well. I have spent quite a bit of time with Lou, possibly more than anyone else here on the forums. Here are a few things we know about him... One is he is passionate. The guys does care a lot about the people here and knows most every member by name and portal. Another is that he has treated this forum like his baby and that's the #1 reason why there are 8k members here now.

Here's a little known fact. In 2004 in Vegas at the CAC conference I met with Lou for the first time. I was asking everyone for their input on Bingo and he told me a few helpful things. I said my thanks and walked off to the next booth. Later on that evening the owner of a bingo network came to me and said he had spoke with the Professor and found I had an interest in the game. 3 weeks later I was running my own bingo program and learned MUCH of what I know now from that trial by fire process. I actually credit 2 people for introducing me into this business, one of them is Lou. (the other Jeremy Enke)

No secret that we have worked together in the past and I was actually a client of Lou's for 2.5 years previous to me coming onto PAP. Lou was a fair boss and actually a hell of a nice guy. Like I said before he is really passionate about what he does. Another thing I respected about him was the fact that he was legit. He actually knew what it was like to run a gaming portal.

Now I am once again working on the affiliate side of the business with Tower Gaming. I'm excited to back in the mix and doing business with my friends here. If Lou is signing off and focusing on things outside of CAP then I wish him the best. The guy taught me a **** load about this business and for that I am thankful.

So now maybe someone can ask him about Cardspike?

[MichaelCorfman]

Greg Powell, of Cardspike / Effective Media fame, offers an endorsement to Fabiano:

So now maybe someone can ask him about Cardspike?

As a former employee of Effective Media Group, Greg is bound by confidentiality provisions of his employment agreement. The only way one would be able to get any former employee of EMG to comment on the matter would be if EMG agreed to release the former employees from their confidentiality agreement in order to independently shed light on the matter. Certainly providing such a release would go a long way towards providing transparency. And certainly while performing the investigative work we did on the matter it would have been really helpful if former EMG employees had been free to answer the questions I had at the time.

Michael

[Caruso]

Is it confirmed that he's a "former", and not "current", employee?

It was noted on the GIA board that he's now with Tower Gaming, and Tower Gaming is inevitably a CAP "certified" programme:

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...es.33690.html?

As such, in the circumstances it would be fair to enquire whether or not he's still eith EM / CAP, as this would represent the same conflicting interests as Cardspike.

That said, the theme of "transparency" really is so much pissing in the wind. CAP will be a lot more careful in future to conceal its casino interests. For one thing, no employee will display an "...@effectivemedia.com" email. I'm not sure how that could ever be addressed. Let's face it, even with so much evidence, the Cardspike issue is still not acknowledged by CAP / EM, who have denied everything.

[MichaelCorfman]

Is it confirmed that he's a "former", and not "current", employee?

Yes, I know for a fact that Greg left the employ of Effective Media Group. And I believe Greg is sincere is stating that he had some early and positive experiences with Lou in the industry. And I also think the whole situation is a tense one, and one where many individuals are legitimately concerned that they not be in the direct line of fire for lawsuits.

[thepokerkeep]

Is it confirmed that he's a "former", and not "current", employee?

It was noted on the GIA board that he's now with Tower Gaming, and Tower Gaming is inevitably a CAP "certified" programme:

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...es.33690.html?

As such, in the circumstances it would be fair to enquire whether or not he's still eith EM / CAP, as this would represent the same conflicting interests as Cardspike.

That said, the theme of "transparency" really is so much pissing in the wind. CAP will be a lot more careful in future to conceal its casino interests. For one thing, no employee will display an "...@effectivemedia.com" email. I'm not sure how that could ever be addressed. Let's face it, even with so much evidence, the Cardspike issue is still not acknowledged by CAP / EM, who have denied everything.

Greg is now a member here (joined a day or two ago). He's a stand up guy and you can be assured he has nothing to do with CAP at this time. You can also find Greg posting on PAL on a regular basis. If you have any questions for him, he would be happy to chat about anything that is not covered in his confidentiality agreement.

[Caruso]

And I also think the whole situation is a tense one, and one where many individuals are legitimately concerned that they not be in the direct line of fire for lawsuits.

Including Greg, I'm sure.

OK, thanks for clarifying his current non-EM status.

[TheGamblingGuru]

Does anyone know how long Greg is bound by this confidentiality agreement ? Most in the business world are only legally enforceable for a certain period of time once previous employee has left said employer such as with non-compete agreements.