Affs, AMs, This IS The Future - No More Cheating! If Affs Get Behind This

[bb1web]

I was going to wait a bit longer before announcing this but that changed when I decided the bad news is getting too overwhelming and I fear we're losing quality affs, far too often and too close together, in these current times, so I am announcing this formerly a little ahead of schedule in hopes it will give some extra reason to hang around in the industry a little longer. Cause I think this could be big, if I can get my peers behind it.

Its called "CasinoPlanner" (and I purchased the domain so you'll have a place to log in and see stats, its not ready yet however).

the main idea of this application is that we are wanting to monopolize the client's sign ups at casinos plus have a way of knowing when they are active in the casino so we can check that against stats.

To do this we need to offer a service which is attractive, and present it in a notebook type design so that one side we can have our link codes attached to a list of casinos for the client to choose from, should they decide to try a new casino.

In this approach the affiliate who has presented the notebook to their surfers, will likely get all the player's future sign ups ... at least wise certainly of those casinos you have your code tagged - which are on the right side of the notebook.

Reason is because the notebook will, as soon as the client has chosen to download the casino (I recommend using a download link, as well as providing a link to the casino website- and there will be an area to add both) so in case they wish to read T&Cs etc, they can visit the casino website thru your link, therefore with your tag, in case they download from there instead of doing it thru the Planner.

But it is IMHO likely a good majority of people (that use the application) will simply opt to just download the casino - especially in the case of them choosing a sister casino such as Casino Rewards who have some 20 to choose from, but all have the same T&Cs (I assume, I haven't checked lately). So for that reason they'll skip checking out the website. - Anyway as soon as they click the link, the casino which they chose from the right side, will then become a left side entity.

* Please note, I use the left-right side to make a point, since we're not finished yet, it may play out that some of my descriptions of what Casino Planner will look like, may have to changed around (just a disclaimer so if that happens, you don't think I was ever lying to you).

So picture the casino name, with a spot that is left open for the client to enter their casino account balance, that remained from their gambling session they had just quit. It doesn't matter be it more, or less, than when they started the session.

Without getting too far into it, the player will be able to rate their latest gambling session at that casino (there actually will be 3 options or ways to rate them - so to make this attractive to as many tastes as possible)
We, you, will have to push the idea of the Casino Planner a little bit, to get the idea into the head of your surfers. But I feel confident if you tell them this will not only organize their casinos so their desktop isn't cluttered with casino shortcuts, but also provide them with information which will be as good and competent, as the user is about entering just two simple numbers.

When they finish playing, they return to the Casino Planner and enter a number rating their experience (again, there will be actually 3 ways to go with that) and then enter their final balance - or for that matter they just need change the number that was there before, for privacy sake, you will not be given the actual number the player enters, but you will know how often they change that balance thus telling you they were active in the casino that day.

Upon having entered the two numbers, in a third box will appear a number which the player can compare to the numbers (in that category) for the other casinos they have in the planner (on the side where it lists casinos they have already joined) and get an idea based on their judgement, which casino is giving them the most fun for the money they are spending. (I will announce what the other two options do right before I make it available for my peers (other affiliates like myself).

What's this going to cost you?

Would you trade one sign up for that player, to get all their future sign ups? And know when they are playing in the casino. Hell I would have knocked you over to get to deal like that .... back before I came up with this. But it isn't even going to cost you that much.

How's that sound? All the good, and not even give up so much as one single sign up. So what's my angle?

I wanted to come up with something where everybody wins. Something that every single party touching it, would benefit. That way when this hits the ground everybody is behind it and for ample reason.

So here's what I came up with. As it might have occurred to you by now, what about the casinos I do not promote? If the user can add any casino, whether on the list with my codes, or not, then it means I will have to sign up for programs which I don't trust, don't like, or simply don't want to work with, IF I want to get anything out of the player's choosing to add that casino to their Planner.

That's true. No getting around it. But at least you have that option. Before, the player simply just went around you and still got what they were after, only now you don't have an claim to any action at that casino.

So the smart move in many cases will be to get signed up with a lot more programs than you may be at present time. And in some cases for the oldies, we may end up working with programs we thought were long in our rearview mirror. Also very hard to get around that.

But the difference will be that the Casino Planner (version 2, not the first one, everybody gets a chance to straighten their act up, hopefully they will) - is going to also have a section devoted to blacklisted casinos. The ones strongly warned to avoid.

If there is overwhelming evidence that a casino is not reporting the action which our combined stats are indicating, then we contact that casino, demand investigation and that they better do something to change the current status quo, or they go on the blacklist.

Simple as that. Because even if you happen to have an extraordinary amount of players using the planner who for whatever reason, enter into the planner false information (such as changing the balance when they didn't actually play) .... it won't matter because you can contact me and thru a series of having other affs check their stats at the Planner against that sponsor's reports, and it shouldn't take too long to spot any differences and as to how extensive they may be?

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and most the other affs are saying it looks pretty quacked from their POV too, then there will be little doubt or chance of error in our conclusions.

This won't be about exacts. I can't promise you won't get shaved a little, or that you will have exact as it happened stats in whether the player actually played in the casino on that date, because yes, they could have entered info on their end, falsely.

But if you want to figure out how to cut out sponsors who are raping you on a regular basis (in a large way because if its just a little, allow for the fact the planner won't be exact for reasons mentioned, and go on) - then this IS THE ANSWER WE BEEN WAITING FOR!
Level playing field. Now we know, and the ones who want to continue in same fashion, or actually, in much better fashion, will start treating us fairly. Because guess where all those affs are going to go when they leave the cheats? My guess is they'll be seeking the programs who's stats are reflecting honestly with what the planner is showing.
If sponsors are smart enough to recognize the double whammy effect this is going to have, punishing the worthless while rewarding the worthy, then if they are the latter, they will get what has long been coming to them, but if they are smart, regardless of their past ways, and treat their partners fairly, they too, will enjoy a prosperous future.
Note to sponsors. I suggest you take this seriously because you won't get a second chance. If you've been cutting corners. Now is the time to stop because you won't know which is what, in regards to who is safe to cheat, and who isn't, until it is too late. Fair warned. Be smart, do the right thing.
.....
So, back to what am I getting out of this?
There will be one banner spot in the notebook right at the top. YOU, will have your code in that banner. However, you will have to abide by the casino I choose to occupy that space. So I will then turn around and sell that opportunity to a sponsor (whom I feel is one that is a good bet to treat affs right) and in return for paying a monthly fee for holding that banner space, they get affiliates whom they otherwise would likely not have ever had, PLUS get back, some they for whatever reason ... lost in the years previous.

Everybody wins!

While I am going to do best to get around to the various forums ... if you know me at all, you know I'm a bit of a free spirit when it comes to where I might be at any given time. But I can assure you ... that I will be at my own forum (gap - gamblingaffiliatesplace.com) so if you want to stay completely informed as to what's going on with the planner, visit us over at gap once in a while.

One last thing. I realize everybody could run home and build their own version of the Casino Planner, but why bother? You're not losing anything by going with mine, if you know me at all, then its likely that you know I'm not known for doing anything dirty, or unscrupulous, so there's that. And finally, the planner may work for helping assure you get all the player's future sign ups, but what good is that compared to having that, .... plus knowing when the players are active in the casino?

To do that in a manner you can somewhat trust to be accurate despite any false information a player might have added, you need stats from more than just yourself. We need each other. I've created a scenario where i think is almost fool-proof in that it will be fair and advantageous for all involved, provide stats over large enough area so that your end result decision will be one that is likely correct in its assumption. Why even consider going any other direction?

Of course not every player will be interested in the planner, but if we promote it in a manner that gets the players excited about how much it will enrich their gaming experience, it will help keep your riches, from ending up in some sponsor's pocket because you'll be able to base your decision making on much more information than you currently are privy and there isn't a way possible, for a sponsor to provide the kind of truth, which the planner will reveal once its been in service for a few months.

One last thing. I'm very open to suggestions and feedback, so that when version 2 is released, I can perhaps cover bases I didn't think about before getting your input. Thanks for taking time to listen.
Steve Briggs

PS.

while I suggest adding as many reputable casinos to the planner's list as possible, in the end, you will have total control over what casinos are listed in the planner, save the one banner ad spot at the top, which you will still be able to enter your aff code, it is just that you will have to submit to the idea that the entity shown in the banner ad, will be a sponsor whom you will be working with. But as I mentioned at first, would you give up one sign up to get all this? Sure. Well in my scenario, the worst case is you end up with a lousy sponsor holding that spot, it is still only ONE sign up you'd lose. Not too mention that sponsor would quickly be outed if they DID try to screw you.

Its all good. Stay Tuned!

[casinojack]

Steve,

Very cool idea, one small problem.

I love ya, trust ya , etc, but what would prevent your software from skimming yourself?

I am not saying you would, but I am sure some would be thinking this...

[Former Member 14]

Hi All,

Valid point casinojack!

Can anyone be trusted 100% in this industry?

I've known Steve for many years and if he says something he keeps his word. I've never known him to break a promise and if he can't follow through with something he says so.

On the flip I've worked with literally 100's of affiliate managers and programs, who at the end of the day their alliance is to the programs they represent. And not too many follow Steve's way of doing things.

When you factor in the current climate with all sorts of accusations flying around of unethical cross marketing and; skimming stats and; player db's being sold etc...etc. I'll opt to trust Steve!

With the aid of Steve's program it will place a layer of trust into the programs we promote.
A layer which up until now requires affiliates to place 100% blind trust into anyone they promote.

If anything...I'd be holding doubts to any affiliate program that sees this as an issue.

It's a tool to keep the bastards honest...Long overdue if you ask me!


Cheers



Dave

[MichaelCorfman]

I'm a bit confused how this would work in practice.

I would think that it would be a real challenge to get players to actually provide the information requested on a regular basis. But, even assuming some did, I'm not sure how it would be possible to tie that information back to a particular affiliate program unless that player was the only referral?

Then, there is the branding aspect that I think might be troublesome to some webmasters if this works the way I think it does. If a website of mine sends a player to the CasinoPlanner.com domain, then I would think it most likely that player would refer other players he or she might know directly to that domain and not to my portal site to pick out a place to play. The only way I would see to avoid that issue is if the service could be easily white-labeled and used directly on each portal site, with a back-end service interface.

I could see that working, but it is a tremendous amount of effort to develop such applications. We spent probably a labor-year doing that type of development work for the Places I've Played application, and also quite a bit of effort in a much simplier application - the GPWA approved portal seal. Keeping a system like the one you describe working reliably (which requires dual servers with failover and databases that are resiliant when crashes or disk failures occur) is a moderate amount of effort, so I would see one risk being that you would not find it in your interest to keep the system up in a reliable fashion over time.

I'm not trying to be negative, just trying to outline some of the issues I've seen trying to provide services to be used by a group of webmasters. It is really easy to underestimate what is required.

My personal recommendation would be to first develop the application so it is successful for your own sites. That removes a lot of the complexity from the development effort, and also means you can change what you are doing without having to coordinate with a lot of other webmasters. I'd only generalize it for other webmasters after it works well for you because until it works well in that simple case it will be hard to get it to work well for losts of other webmasters.

Michael

[bb1web]

I just glanced over the posts cause I'm in and out right now but to clear up a couple of things, the planner will be an application so you can offer it to your surfers from your site.

the casinoplanner.com is for the affs to come and view stats on how often the balance is changed on each respective casino which is in the left side of the notebook, - which will have the shortcuts to open the casino in there, instead of all over the desktop.


........


as for my skimming, I'm not sure how I could? its your code. all stats etc, involved between you and whichever respective casino program - are between the two of you.

All I am offering is to let the affs know when the player has shown to change the balance in the planner, which correlates to that respective casino.


I don't think I could skim anybody even if I wanted to. But I very much welcome suggestions , So I can perhaps figure a way to take your worries out of the equation.

............


The reason I came back before taking off, is there is one other thing, I will want a link to one of my websites.

That was always part of the deal, I just forgot to add it in.


.....


I'll glance over posts once more real quick in hopes I have covered the worst of the worries - and then be back later tonight to better answer questions.

...

Real quick, Michael, I don't see the reason for needing the dual servers etc.

This is actually a very simple thing.


Imagine having a blank notebook.

You can enter a casino shortcut into the left side of it. There are 3 boxes, one you enter your rating for the previous gambling session, two, you enter a new balance. the third box will return a number based on the amount of times the balance is changed and the total accumulation of the numbers entered into the other box.

2 simple things to do, give your experience a rating ... I think this will work with almost any number system, as long as it stays the same, but for now, say 1 - 5 , - so you enter a 5 cause you had a good time. update the balance, and then the last box will do some simple math and that's it.

why would I need a server of any kind, short of that i will be providing the banner image which will go at the top of the notebook.

=============================

okay, it did cross my mind, maybe to do the simple math, it requires a server. Is that what you meant? Even so, I can't imagine that being all that big of a deal. and my man who's getting this all together seems very confident it can be done, and he has been right about everything I've laid at his feet so far.

I DO very much appreciate the feedback though, because it might save me down the line.

As far as waiting and trying it out on my own sites first, I think this is way over due as it is, so those that decide to give it a go with me ... well I don't see how you can lose?

Worst case scenario, is the math part stops working, you still have the player with a notebook full of casinos with your code attached to them, which will be much easier to open and grab a new casino out of there, than surf the net.

..........


BTW: there will be an area on the right side of the planner not only for your link codes (both download and to the casino) but also a place where you can enter the bonus amount or whatever small amount of text you'd like to put in there.

Also, I will always be willing to open up whatever stats etc area that is privy to me, that may not be to you, so you can see that everything is transparent.

Not too mention most that know me, know I'm not near smart enough to pull off something fishy even if that were my style. And its not.

[bb1web]

I ran back in to add that on the stats, you'll only be able to get them from the casinos which the player moves over from the list on the right side (which have your codes in them) - using the download link.

If they download from the casinos' website, we may not be able to make that work, to my understanding, that's what he is trying to figure out now.

Because we wouldn't be able to know which casino was in that slot. but when it is downloaded from within the notebook, and moves over automatically, then we would know which casino it is.

[bb1web]

Hi again all,

That was frustrating. I was near finished with a long post and went to back up to fix a spelling error and instead it took me back to the previous page and then when I got back, everything was gone. Probably something I did, but I sure wish I knew what so I can avoid it again next time.


Okay, first, Michael, I gave my login info to Sandeep, the person/brains that make my crazy ideas come to life (be happy to hook you up with him, AFTER he gets this done lol). So anyway, if you see I logged in from India and Kansas in the same few hours span, now you know. If its a problem, holler and I'll change the password now.


I was worried after reading Mr C's posts, that I might have explained wrong or something, but in that defense, I pretty much beat it to death asking if I explained it okay, and Sandeep said (in my best imitation of a friendly India accent - which sadly ... isn't worthy) - "no problem Steve, you explained it very well".


He accomplished the last task I gave him in about 2 weeks and I went to the smartest people I know for over a period of about 3 years, trying to see if it was doable. None of them thought they could do it. (Jack, Rick, and Renee will likely remember that, to name a few).


So I have a lot of confidence in him. If there's a fault, its probably with me. Because we never discussed the need for dual servers type of stuff. But I am thinking that perhaps Michael has approached this from a much higher level of knowledge than myself, and in the past, i have seen where the two were very different at the end of the day. All my ideas are going to be very simple if not in actual process it takes to make it happen, then surely in how it results.

The first thing I do when I get an idea is start whittling it down because for me, where things go wrong is in the detail, so I have to cut that out as much as possible.

This should be very straight forward, and as mentioned it might not be able to give exacts, such as whether the player is being honest with what info they enter, but it approaches our problems (as affs) in the same manner you learn to use when you become a veteran. You look at the stats available, compare to those of other programs that have been given similar or same ad space, and if you see one that really sucks compared to the other two or three in the mix, then you know that place is either cheating you, or they're so incompetent that they might as well be.

And you replace them.


If someone spots something that seems amiss (using the Planner), even if they don't have anything to compare that stat with say, the stats of several other players in that casino, the aff can still contact me and I'll grab some peers who do have a bigger player base, and at least be able to tell you what those other affs have been seeing. (in rough terms, so in other words they'd likely say back to me ... well my stats seem to be pretty much in step with each other, so I think the place is okay. or they will say that their stats aren't lining up very well either.

I'll pass along what i was told, and you make your own decisions. Personally, I'll likely take action which reflects the majority's opinion on the matter. I know I will greatly appreciate having the opportunity to know more input and then to make that decision more comfortably because of that extra POV.

Right now, the best you can do is send testers, and we caught a situation last month, but things have gotten so out of hand that it calls for an effort of spraying to kill the weeds, because pulling them one by one (via the tester approach) has become a losing battle and the garden has become a jungle.

.......................

One other perk followed by an important reminder.

When Vegas goes on line, many of us fear the worst. I know some think it will be an all out bonanza, but if it goes the other way, and they don't show interest in affs, if you have players using the planner, its quite possible the players will keep the planner around for the rating system part or just to keep their casinos organized, - meaning if they add the vegas casinos into it, YOUR casinos will still be there too, and they're already going to have a head start which will be HUGE! ... to show the players that when they compare the establishments side by side, that according to their own rating systems, our online casinos are just as good, (maybe better) than are the Vegas ones.


Of course there will still be the matter of "will I get paid?", but assuming the casino(s) (the ones we promote now) in question has had the business smarts to make sure they did always pay players and in timely fashion, then the evidence is there in front of their eyes, and the conclusions are based absolutely on what that player chose to enter in regards to rating, therefore you might have a fighting chance at giving Vegas some competition when the player sees their choices have resulted in our online casinos as having the highest ratings.

Otherwise when Vegas goes online with its USA-regulated-sure-to-pay casinos, all that will be speaking on behalf of your casinos, will be whatever memories the player has of it.

I know the better online casinos have better payback than the riverboats where i live. I can tell that easily. So if that is correct, then we have the upper hand in regards to payout %, but its going to be lost if we can't keep that fact in front of the player's eyes to remind.

The Planner will also accomplish that. (assuming the OG casinos are truly better, but I think they are, and feel extremely confident they are not any worse). And if even the latter is true, its still to our advantage for players to see that.
.......

If Vegas ends up embracing the aff model, you haven't lost anything that way either. You've just got some new casinos to add to your next version of the planner.
...


By having the planner in front of the player whenever they decide to go play, there will be an opportunity to remind the players that they need to at least log in to their existing accounts once every 6 months, in order to keep it from possibly being deleted (RTG has that in their terms).

Thus you keep that player under your tag.

We shouldn't have to do this crap, but the in the real world if you want to survive, you've got to try and protect your interests.

[tomgalanis]

bb1web just won longest post of all time... twice. Astounding work... now to read it all

[bb1web]

Sorry, its a lot to explain.

Michael I am talking with the guy to have him make this possible as a white label which actually works easier for me because I won't have to worry about lining up things if for instance, when we come out with version 2, I had originally planned on having the tech guy assign a number to each aff's account version that they would offer from their website, so if the player did show up at casinoplanner, that they could download the newer version with the original affs code in it.

Making it completely white label will satisfy your worries, and take that off my back.

And I agree with you that it might not go over with players. Which is why I've decided to release the first version minus the stats part of it, because that's expensive and if it doesn't go over well with the players, no sense in paying to have the thing done to that extent.

The first version will still have everything for the player that I mentioned, and still have where the affiliate can enter their link codes, it just won't provide stats as to how many sessions that player has entered.

......

I think I mentioned that this won't be an exact science. al it will do is provide an extra look that you aren't getting now, plus help you to monopolize all future sign ups. That alone, should have you biting at the bit.

And yes, the stats part of it will be more beneficial to the smaller aff than someone like CC, but I can tell just from the many posts I have read over the years that there are many money making affs who have stats at the end of the month that are completely baffling, they've sent a bunch of players, yet are lucky to make minimum payment.

I think those people would very much like a look at how often a player is active in that casino which is consistently barely making minimum payment wages.

Yes all this can be determined without the planner, but it still will greatly help an aff to make a better educated guess of whether to keep that sponsor on or not.

If the planner stats showed few sessions, then it is somewhat explainable the lack of income, but a lot of activity and you've got to be thinking that perhaps your concerns are correct, that there is a reason for a consistent bad bottom line, which is more than lack of interest on the part of the players.

It will always be about a judgment call on whether to keep a program or not, but this would be a nice new angle to have a look at things, just as an added perk to go with ... did I mention you'd monopolize all their future sign ups?