Got scammed for $2500 from an Affiliate

[COPCapo]

I know this topic has been posted in the Affiliate Forum and at other places already.

SO we closed a deal with Rich de Waal for 2240€ ($2500) to send us 10 Players via PPC ... over his friend Ivaylo Kostadinov

I have spoken to Rich numerouse times before and he offered me this many times till i gave in and closed the deal with him...

After Rich assured us we will get paid back if he does not deliver or we are unhappy !!

than this Ivo guys was creating an account and the money was placed into his account.

After few weeks I have asked Ivo directly what happen to the players he wanted to send, he came back to me and said he needs a new goodle adword account and this takes 7 days at least.

Now we waited another 2 months and i tried to contact him but no response at all, than i went to Rich and asked him what happend and he told me that he will try to contact him.

now he came back with that story:

'

[20/11/2015 12:32:30] myclicks: It took me so long to as I had to deal with different parties to keep the wheels spinning and to get some kind of a resolution. However that didn’t work as I was constantly running the project on a loss for about 7 months and for most of the time I had to fund client’s campaigns with funds from new clients. Plenty of reasons for it and the only sustainable traffic generation part was the pay per click campaigns while the main idea was to reduce our dependence from ppc campaigns and drive traffic through a set of different channels including google news, email, wh and bh ppc campaigns. Running a business that relies on BH ppc campaigns only is not sustainable due to its volatility and this was the main reason for setting up this new project.so I managed to get even on some of the accounts
by delivering whatever is due
i processed refund on others

It needs to be added that he used our funds and as well from other Operators to fund debts he had with previouse ones

Our Company has paid back the operator for the scam as we think that we are partly responsible for this.

I tried to get the funds back from Rich de Waal as I did the deal with him but he is refusing as he thinks he has nothing to do with that even if he has discussed the deal with us. He says he did it just for a friend. I also offered him that he list us on his website and get the money back from his friend Ivaylo. But he didn't wanted to do that as well.

I also spoke to Ivo to give me a date but he can not ... and i really don't want to wait for this money.

I think i took every possible road but i do not believe that the money is coming in anytime soon or at all.

[Miles_FTA]

As I have stated on Facebook and GPWA Affiliate Managers forum we too did a deal with these guys and when we asked for a refund we got told sorry we dont have the money to pay you back but we will try do so in future. Its not Nice . Its unethical and if you do business with these guys going forward just be warned is all

[casinobonusguy]

Rich contacted me on facebook got the impression he was working as affiliate manager...

[allfreechips]

Just got an email from him today to discuss some stats on my sites?

[TauAffiliates]

We have a deal with Rich in place and I am sure that he will make good on it. He has been around the industry for a long time and i look forward to him clearing this issue up with the various programs that have issues.

[TauAffiliates]

The OP indirectly paid for the post above mine, I'd bet...

You would be loosing that bet then

[-Shay-]

You would be loosing that bet then

delete

[TauAffiliates]

I am really not following your logic, i thought you meant that the OP paid me for my post.Well that is how i read it anyway.

We are in the same boat as the OP , so my level of satisfaction is about the same as his at this point in time. What i am hoping for, is that all of the relevant people in this situation, get satisfaction.

[-Shay-]

I am really not following your logic, i thought you meant that the OP paid me for my post.Well that is how i read it anyway.

We are in the same boat as the OP , so my level of satisfaction is about the same as his at this point in time. What i am hoping for, is that all of the relevant people in this situation, get satisfaction.

LOL - you're not following my logic because I totally misread your post. My apologies.

[TauAffiliates]

No worries , it can happen.

[COPCapo]

I am really not following your logic, i thought you meant that the OP paid me for my post.Well that is how i read it anyway.

We are in the same boat as the OP , so my level of satisfaction is about the same as his at this point in time. What i am hoping for, is that all of the relevant people in this situation, get satisfaction.

I personally think there can be done more ... we also are responsible that we have brought him to our client and we have paid it already from our own pockets.

[HCFGrizzly]

COPCapo I am really sorry for you and I really hope you get your money back but as the situation stands I`m not sure you will

[Miles_FTA]

I dont think any of us will there have been may

[LarryWilson]

Hi all,

I know both Richard and Ivaylo very well, and have run profitable campaigns via both over the years. Just reading through this thread, and there are 2 things I'd like to comment on...

Firstly, I have done this exact same deal with Ivaylo, and it sounds like I was one of the fortunate few to have acquired the agreed upon number of new players (and then some, in fact). In terms of this being labelled a scam, I would have to disagree entirely. As I've mentioned before on a reply to a Facebook post from Myron, this is clearly a case of a business plan not working out as intended. I am in agreement with those of you who are unhappy with the outcome - it is never good to take money from advertisers, fail to deliver, and then be unable to refund them. But I highly doubt those funds have been invested in a speedboat on the French Riviera... it's obvious that he dug a hole, tried to dig himself out of it, but only resulted in making the hole deeper. A campaign gone bad? Yes. A scam? Not in my opinion, no.

Secondly, it seems that Richard is being targeted as the scapegoat here. The abovementioned deal I did with Ivaylo was initiated by Richard, just like everybody else, but Richard's name is nowhere on the insertion orders, invoices or bank account details, and all day-to-day dealings I had regarding the campaign were with Ivaylo. Richard was no more than the introducing broker, if you will. I have known Richard for more than 15 years, and he's always been very upfront on how far his involvement extends on campaigns and deals. For this deal, he was always pretty clear that his only role was to connect Ivaylo and operators/advertisers. For those of you who don't personally know both men, Richard is an industry warhorse, who has a huge network of industry connections and a more than affable demeanour. Ivaylo, on the other hand, is a technical guy with little experience to walk the floor and talk **** with potential clients. It makes perfect sense for Richard to help Ivaylo sell his services to people he knows. I do it myself loads of times at every affiliate conference... point at someone and tell an affiliate manager buddy that the affiliate that just walked by is worth talking to. Does that make me personally liable for a deal that doesn't turn out the way everyone hoped it would? I don't think so.

Before I finish off, please let me reiterate that I am not dismissing the anger and frustration felt by many of you at the way the campaigns failed here... believe me, it's happened to me more times than I care to mention over the years, so I know how it feels. What I am trying to say, however, is that we should not jump to conclusions regarding the integrity of a person we may barely know, nor should we look for scapegoats in the pursuit for closure and justice.

Cheers,
Larry

[Miles_FTA]

Thanks Larry .. as gutted as I am I have come to the conclusion that I wont be getting any MoneyBack on this deal no matter how hard we try so have resigned this to that Pile of wasted deals and lost money deals that so many of us have had to deal with .

I like Richard and Respect him for his Legacy in this industry and he has helped a lot with trying to push my brands on his website as he does feel bad about how these deals went down..and the fact we lost ..

I am sorry and Apologize to Richard if my Posts came across as irresponsible and reputation damaging but i was upset and feel i was entitled to be .

So I will Agree with Larry here on the fact its better to say Deal Gone Bad .. Rather than Scam and will leave it at that .

[COPCapo]

Thanks Larry .. as gutted as I am I have come to the conclusion that I wont be getting any MoneyBack on this deal no matter how hard we try so have resigned this to that Pile of wasted deals and lost money deals that so many of us have had to deal with .

I like Richard and Respect him for his Legacy in this industry and he has helped a lot with trying to push my brands on his website as he does feel bad about how these deals went down..and the fact we lost ..

I am sorry and Apologize to Richard if my Posts came across as irresponsible and reputation damaging but i was upset and feel i was entitled to be .

So I will Agree with Larry here on the fact its better to say Deal Gone Bad .. Rather than Scam and will leave it at that .

I don't have the same view ....

there are couple of things which makes it to a scam

1st Ivaylo used the funds we paid for getting players to refund other operators - so he misused the funds

2nd Richard went way above any normal intro of an affiliate which is negotiatiung the price, contacting over months -- giving guarantees !!!!!!!!!!!!! using an email or having an email from the Business .... thats not falling under the catgeroy: i just wanted to help a friend.

He should ahve shown the same enthusiasm to solve the issue as he had when selling the deal ... and do you think I heard one sentence from him anymore about this ? before that i got a weekly message to get our site/s listed and countless meeting requests.

Its not all about the money here, its how this has been handled .. and it was very poor .. beyond anyhting i would have accepted from Richard.

And I'm saying ti againb, as we paid it.. I'm 90% sure he knew that it went all sour already.

So there can not be any understanding or any '' nice talking the issue '' here.

cauz if it went sour there and he does not care... than it will be the same with onlinecasinocoupons as well.. if it hits any time rock bottom.

So you will understand that there will be no dealings with Richard anymore in the future.

[celena]

I am glad, not to have to work with these people!

[COPCapo]

i just need to bump that up ... as it is after 2 years still not solved and Rich de Wall is just walking around and doing his things as nothing ever happened.

Does anyone know what he does now ?

As Rich promised me this Ivalyo will pay eventually.. after 2 years i think its time to pay up

[allfreechips]

I have an affiliate that owed me 60K and they went under, I found them either here or on Cap way back but I don't blame the site that introduced me. Have you sought action against Ivaylo? Not sure I understand the one sided attack on the middle man who introduced you to something that worked for many in the past. I have known Rich for a long time and I can say he does not operate like this. Im sure if you got the NDP and a few extra you would be complementing Rich for the great deal 2 years later as well?

[COPCapo]

I have an affiliate that owed me 60K and they went under, I found them either here or on Cap way back but I don't blame the site that introduced me. Have you sought action against Ivaylo? Not sure I understand the one sided attack on the middle man who introduced you to something that worked for many in the past. I have known Rich for a long time and I can say he does not operate like this. Im sure if you got the NDP and a few extra you would be complementing Rich for the great deal 2 years later as well?

I was just wondering when the South Africa Guys are coming to protect him ...

If you took the time to read what has been said.. than it was clear it wasnt just a '' Hey, let me introduce you to this guy by sending an email '' ... if that would be the case, than I would have never said anything.
But requesting meetings, asking many times .. explaining the deal in all details is for me a bit beyond introduction. As I wrote, he had an email from this business .. anyhow, your last question:

So you want to tell me because i would not complementing him after 2 years if he was upholding to the agreed and ''PAID'' Deal, I have no right to ask for my money back as nothing was delivered. No wonder you are on his site, because thats the same attitude Rich has

and if you know him and you know he does not operate like this, contact him and ask him to pay me back the money ... if thats the case as you say, this should not be a big problem. After all, he does not operate like this ??