Hold Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash ?

[WagerX]

I sold at .16 and I am glad I did it. I read somewhere that the mining difficulty level is very high and may be reduced in the future. I'll buy some when it is in the consolidation phase.

[Voids]

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...-forking-again

[Voids]

What I don't understand is why he thinks it's dependent on that hardware ?

He can recreate the addresses and a new replica of the wallet as long as he has the original seed words, the widespread idea that the coins are sitting on a hard drive, or piece of paper are not correct. All that's there is a blockchain address that public ledgers agree has 1400 BTC associated with it.

So it's not just because he threw out the hardware, he also did not keep his pass phrase in a safe place.

When I was back at school in 2009 I had a laptop that I mined some bitcoin on, didn't do it for very long as it was keeping my up when I was trying to sleep. Ended up been worth pennies at best so didn't bother with it.

God knows how much is in that wallet.

[TheGooner]

When I was back at school in 2009 I had a laptop that I mined some bitcoin on

Ouch !!

Let's pretend that it wasn't much ...

After all at the time each BTC was worth less than a cent.
So it can't have been much ...

I have heard on guy spent 10,000 BTC to buy a $10 pizza early on ...
So how much could it have been worth really?

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--- SPOILER ---- DONT LOOK --- DONT DO IT ----
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OH - YOU LOOKED ...

Although if you did actually successfully mine just ONE block in the blockchain then the block reward was 50 BTC - around $220,000 in today's money.

[elgoog]

The original pizza thread, will be in future history books:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.0

[sweetbet]

The person who posted the following message on May 23, 2010, 05:17:26 AM must feel like killing himself now
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...sg1195#msg1195

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I just want to report that I successfully traded 10,000 bitcoins for pizza.
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[Sherlock]

Rather not. Because if yes, then many people of this forum should half-kill himself. We started the debate about bitcoins here like 2 years ago, they were at 200 USD. One year ago Bettingpartners forced everyone to accept btc and people were upset, price was ~400. No profit in my life was clearer than this. Yet people started to hodl reluctantly, when actually it was strong signal not just to hold, but to buy even more.

Yes, cryptos are still undervalued, so hodl.

Meanwhile there is BTC/BTH drama, which shows that it is not always wise to sell, when everybody is selling.

[PROFRBcom]

Bitcoin is effectively over 5k now... for those of you who are still holding onto your BTC and BCH from the fork, as BTC is ~4100 and BCH is over 900 as of this post.

Pizza cost is now: 10,000 * 5,000 = $50,000,000 for a couple pies!

Firstly, that guy still probably holds some BTC and is likely wealthy at this point. Secondly, without him, the crypto-revolution might never have taken off. Someone had to start using them for commerce! If I were him, I'd be proud. Think about that story... the $50 million dollar pizzas!

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^{Why cryptos are becoming more popular in online gambling circles.}

[WagerX]

I sold at .16 and I am glad I did it. I read somewhere that the mining difficulty level is very high and may be reduced in the future. I'll buy some when it is in the consolidation phase.

Yup, 90% of the mining is in the hands of a few miners, who can now execute changes without the governing issues BTC has. Damn, I wish I didn't sell.

[ocreditor]

I hope I'm not too off topic here but I saw yesterday the movie Banking on Bitcoin on Netflix https://www.netflix.com/il-en/title/80154500
And it helped me a lot understanding Bitcoin system and how it was established and why.

It was fascinating so I wanted to strongly recommend to anyone to watch it, for me it did some order in my head because I knew what is crypto currency is but I didn't know what is the essence of Bitcoin until I watched it.

[Voids]

Ouch !!

Let's pretend that it wasn't much ...

After all at the time each BTC was worth less than a cent.
So it can't have been much ...

I have heard on guy spent 10,000 BTC to buy a $10 pizza early on ...
So how much could it have been worth really?

...

...

--- SPOILER ---- DONT LOOK BELOW IF YOU WANT TO AVOID HUGE REGRET ----
|
|
|
|

--- SPOILER ---- DONT LOOK --- DONT DO IT ----
|
|
|
|
|
--- SPOILER ---- REALLY ... DONT DO IT ----
|
|
|
|
\|/

OH - YOU LOOKED ...

Although if you did actually successfully mine just ONE block in the blockchain then the block reward was 50 BTC - around $220,000 in today's money.

I'm hoping that it was significantly less than that, but in reality I'll never know how many I had, because I just can't remember. In other news if I did have 50BTC then, I would definitely have sold it by now. Probably when it broke 2 figures, never mind 4 and beyong.

[WagerX]

It looks like the agreement made in Newyork isn't going to be honored. Segwit2x not being activates might lead to another hard fork in november. This sucks. It's ruining the confidence of new investors and mainstream. Especially my favorite alt coins (ARK, QRL, NEO, and QTUM). Arrg!

[Muppet]

That agreement has always been contentious, so it should come as no surprise. There was a similar agreement made a few years ago (the Hong Kong agreement) and nothing eventuated from it. The handful of companies (mainly miners) that made the agreement neglected to consult the developers, users, exchanges, and bunch of other associated members of the community before presuming to act on behalf of all of them. So while it may be a nice compromise in theory they have pissed off a lot of people, and doubled down by forking BCH in the meantime. It seems to me that they already have the choice they wanted and the solution is simple: big blockers can move to BCH and be done with it.

[PROFRBcom]

Calvinayre.com bought CoinGeek.com today. In the press release it talks about CA and the government of Antigua and Barbuda being essentially pro BitcoinCash. It looks like Calvin Ayre (and maybe the Bodog brands) are going to put their weight behind Bitcoin Cash in the future... at least, that is my assessment --> http://professionalrakeback.com/is-b...re-of-us-poker

[TheGooner]

It's a bit of a breathless article ... big on hyperbole and speculation ... and not really backed up

The current mining algo for BCH is a joke ... they eased the difficulty and seem to have no ability to ramp it back up as more join. Accordingly blocks are arriving every minute, with miners being awarded 12.5 BCH for completing blocks with less than 20 transactions in them.

See ... https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-cash/blocks

When I looked there were 10 blocks in the last 8 minutes. 8 of those blocks had less than 10 txs in them !!
Basically, no-one is using this coin for actual transactions outside the exchanges.

If BCH blocks keep coming out the pace they are now BCH will have a block reward halving every ~1 year.

Block rewards are designed to be a subsidy to miners for their work until fees are adequate enough to pay for security (mining). If block reward halves in 1 year to 6.125 BCH and then to 3.06 BCH per block a year after and so on.

Then the only thing that would keep the miners securing the chain (mining) would be a fee market (because the block rewards will be so low) which is a harder thing to achieve with 8MB blocks and a mentality of keeping the fees low.

It seems to me that it's a badly balanced coin with little infrastructure - heavily favouring miners earnings - as long as there is some sucker prepared to pay hundreds of dollars per BCH they'll keep going at that rate.

I'm not sure that a miner dominated coin has the stability required to be anything more than a short term alt-coin.

[ocreditor]

Interesting stuff TheGooner.
I was wondering why BTC is going down this week after hitting $4500 today it's already $3900 , do you think it's because the BTC Cash is fast processing speed effecting it ? (in the short term or also long term ?)

[PROFRBcom]

Interesting stuff TheGooner.
I was wondering why BTC is going down this week after hitting $4500 today it's already $3900 , do you think it's because the BTC Cash is fast processing speed effecting it ? (in the short term or also long term ?)

Well, it's not only the fast processing speed of BCH, but the slower processing speed of BTC as of late. The amount of hashing power that has jumped over to BCH is large. And as Gooner stated, the number of transactions are low. This is of course why I think it is important that Calvin Ayre, and presumably Bodog AND the Government of Antigua and Barbuda being pro Bitcoin Cash matters greatly. Getting gambling transactions to start flowing into BCH from the Bodog empire could produce a boost. And if Antigua makes BCH a legal option for gambling providers, they could see a resurgence in their importance in the gambling markets. Not to mention that one can buy a passport to A&B, so some private individuals might be tempted to move there to spend BCH/set up BCH businesses under full government protection.

It's a bit of a breathless article ... big on hyperbole and speculation ... and not really backed up

The current mining algo for BCH is a joke ... they eased the difficulty and seem to have no ability to ramp it back up as more join. Accordingly blocks are arriving every minute, with miners being awarded 12.5 BCH for completing blocks with less than 20 transactions in them.

See ... https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-cash/blocks

When I looked there were 10 blocks in the last 8 minutes. 8 of those blocks had less than 10 txs in them !!
Basically, no-one is using this coin for actual transactions outside the exchanges.

If BCH blocks keep coming out the pace they are now BCH will have a block reward halving every ~1 year.

Block rewards are designed to be a subsidy to miners for their work until fees are adequate enough to pay for security (mining). If block reward halves in 1 year to 6.125 BCH and then to 3.06 BCH per block a year after and so on.

Then the only thing that would keep the miners securing the chain (mining) would be a fee market (because the block rewards will be so low) which is a harder thing to achieve with 8MB blocks and a mentality of keeping the fees low.

It seems to me that it's a badly balanced coin with little infrastructure - heavily favouring miners earnings - as long as there is some sucker prepared to pay hundreds of dollars per BCH they'll keep going at that rate.

I'm not sure that a miner dominated coin has the stability required to be anything more than a short term alt-coin.

The blocks on Bitcoin Cash are going to ramp back up in difficulty. And quickly so. One of the changes that took place in the BCH fork is that they adjust the difficulty much, much faster than BTC. So what happened is that few miners followed and the hashing power stayed where it was. Then, as the difficulty adjusted down, miners jumped ship to take advantage and suddenly there was a huge amount of them because BCH was at one point, 168% more profitable to mine than bitcoin. That won't last long. The next change in difficulty is in a day or two and it should go back up. Here's a good link for comparing the profitability of the two forks: https://cash.coin.dance/blocks


And here's a seemingly well rated payment processor now accepting bitcoin cash: https://rocketr.net/blog/2017/07/30/...oming-rocketr/

Oh, and here is a great link on how bitcoin cash difficult adjusts every 2016 blocks: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comment...c_used_in_the/

[PROFRBcom]

It is currently 141.4% more profitable to mine on the original chain vs bitcoin cash post difficulty adjust. I think it will take some time before equilibrium between the two is reached.

[WagerX]

Bitcoin is effectively over 5k now...

I get your point, but that quote sounds like nails on the chalk board to me. IMO the BCC (BCH) hard fork has lowered the consumer confidence. All of my alt coins are based on the BTC value (at least in my perception). So when people say BTC is "effectively" higher. it's not. A hard fork by a disgruntled governance makes a fork. They are not the same. It's too bad. Grouping them together doesn't make it any easier. So, now there's a precedence of hard forking. I'm sure it will not be the only one. Supposedly there might be another one in November.

[TheGooner]

I understand your viewpoints - and I am a foot in both camps.

However, the issue that I dislike is that after all the smug pontificating about BTC having a limited supply and not being inflationary with a fixed 21m supply (etc, etc, etc), the reality is that we've just seen the "Bitcoin" brand split and double the number of tokens around.

I understand that BCH is not BTC. But you can be sure that BCH has sucked away investor capital and miner hardware from BTC. All of this lessens the pool of demand for BTC by supplying a "cheaper bitcoin tagged token" .. and in my opinion it dilutes and devalues the bitcoin brand and possible end-game valuation.

And that's before we factor in another "bitcoin" appearing with a split in November ... will it be BSG (Bitcoin Segwit?).

So we could have 63 million possible Bitcoin tokens out there - not 21m - that's rampant inflation - and given the easy profits that miners are making with modified difficulty algos and mining blocks too frequently ... do you REALLY think it will stop there?

In a worst case scenario - miners will split / fracture the coin simply to make a buck in future. There will be 100's of bitcoin tokens - and no unified currency - and the overwhelming supply of some sort of "bitcoin" token and a myriad of prices will overwhelm demand. Prices will plummet. Tulips will become tulips again.

Keep your eyes on the markets gents - don't HODL forever.