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  1. #101
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    bitcoin aka gold, ethereum aka silver and LTC aka copper?

    possible, extremely unlikely (e.g. much much more likely is that Bitcoin will be abandoned and replaced by some other cryptocurrency)

    It is LTC agenda, where litecoin wants to see some justifying to exist. It is based on analogy that people need big money for some transactions and completely different money for another transactions.

    I believe there will be just one currency and the currency must be scalable. If there is one currency that is rigid and another that is being used as a transaction protocol for the rigid one, then the second one will quickly replace it. For example: if there is bitcoin being used for large transactions and ETH for smaller ones, then ETH already won.

    I always recall here Fountainhead from Rand (not that I am fan of that sad woman), where she describes the old antic architecture, that 2000 years ago had some function and nowadays is just copied without sense, because massive pillars and other parts of architecture are simply not needed anymore. Yet people want them, as they imagine digital gold and silver. But when it is about money, I believe it is different and the new monetary system will not implement cheesiness.

    Bitcoin does not need digital silver for smoother transactions, especially not now with Segwit activated, Mempool empty and Lightning layer2 protocol on the way.
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  3. #102
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    I believe that crypto currencies are here to stay. Which ones will depend on the consumer. The ones that are and will be used for payments should survive and hopefully gain value.
    Similar like credit cards. Only 2 brands are accepted almost everywhere nowadays.
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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    Another hard fork being touted in October - this one clearly for the potential "money" - Bitcoin Gold
    Source : https://www.coindesk.com/first-cash-...hard-fork-way/

    The problem with bitcoin forks is that instead of bitcoin having mathematically controlled and reducing inflation, we have multiple "bitcoin" chains on the market that effectively mean rampant inflation.

    The idea of forking for "money" seems to be the beginning of the end for any possible high value for bitcoin. The end game for BTC in a few years time will probably be 100 forks with all coin values rapidly approaching zero.

    You seem to be looking at bitcoin as if it's just another stock on the stock market. This is far from the case. Forks don't mean much, really. In the sense that it will reduce bitcoins value. What gives bitcoin its value is

    1) It's technology
    2) It's brand name "bitcoin"
    3) scarcity

    You would need trillions of dollars to have bitcoins advertisement. Forks will come and go but there will be a point where people won't care or won't even know. All they know is 'bitcoin'.

    It will be like 'coke' and 'diet coke' and it's 100+ other deviations that have come and gone. Coke always retained and increased its value.

    So in short I don't agree with the 'hardforks' a.k.a deviations of bitcoin reducing its value in the future. Bitcoin has already asserted itself at the top of the food chain at the moment. Hardforks won't change this. Hardforks if anything will just become less popular as they prove to be unsuccessful in mass adoption. Like we've seen with Bitcoin cash.

    Hardforks won't be the downfall of Bitcoin, something far more superior and advanced will be. Whether that's eth, neo, sys or any of the others.

  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by cat View Post
    I believe that crypto currencies are here to stay. Which ones will depend on the consumer. The ones that are and will be used for payments should survive and hopefully gain value.
    Similar like credit cards. Only 2 brands are accepted almost everywhere nowadays.

    Payment processing is just another brick in the wall when it comes to crypto and what it can do. Have a look into smart contracts that it enables and things like that. Truly game changing. Going to cut out A TON of future jobs. Welcome to the new automated world..

  7. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floyduss View Post
    You seem to be looking at bitcoin as if it's just another stock on the stock market.
    This is far from the case. Forks don't mean much, really.

    What gives bitcoin its value is
    1) It's technology
    2) It's brand name "bitcoin"
    3) scarcity
    1) technology - When a coin forks - all the same technology move with the new coin as well.
    2) brand name "bitcoin" - When a coin forks it's taking the bitcoin moniker too - it's Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, etc.
    3) scarcity - when a coin forks then current and potnetial supply doubles.

    You seem to be underestimating the damage these forks do to the mantra of "one bitcoin - limited to 21 million".

    As a thought experiment :
    Where do you think BTC value would be right now without the b@st@rd fork child that is BCH?
    - Higher? $5,000? $6,000?
    - The same? around $4,000?
    - Lower?

    Rinse and repeat. And again. and again. and again. Fork = Splintering = Less unique value.
    Last edited by TheGooner; 7 October 2017 at 4:56 pm. Reason: MORE :

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  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    1) technology - When a coin forks - all the same technology move with the new coin as well.
    2) brand name "bitcoin" - When a coin forks it's taking the bitcoin moniker too - it's Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, etc.
    3) scarcity - when a coin forks then current and potnetial supply doubles.

    Simply not true mate.

    Technology - the reason why it's forking is because the developers do not agree on where the technology for it is heading. Check segwit2x. If you mean the technology is the same, then yes, it's blockchain technology. If you mean the technology is staying the same... then no.

    Brand name - we saw that when it forked and bitcoin cash came along.. it hit a new all time high.. But does a versace pair of sunglasses mean that versace's value decreases? Do rolex imitations mean rolex becomes less valueable?

    Scarcity - A fork is creating an entirely new blockchain and it has no implications on the previous blockchain.

    You need to do more research and actually understand what the technology actually is because at the moment your level of understanding is pretty low at the moment IMO. I can tell because you don't understand what happens with a hardfork, this is why you assume "current and potnetial supply doubles." When in reality when the fork happens these two blockchains are completely independent of eachother and so are any 'supply'. It's like ethereum and bitcoin.

    Buuuut don't let some obvious fool's opinion on GPWA argue you with your belief system for one second on this subject, research yourself and see what you find.

    I guess Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin should actually have the exact same value.. after all their from the same current and potential supply..


  10. #107
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    My humble opinion is that we should not tell the others what they should do, study etc. or at least not in even slightly offensive way. But I am not mod, true.

    It is hard to tell what would have been if... Price could have been much higher or lower. The important thing is that the forks will happen and forks are one of the ways of voting in cryptos. I predict next time the minor forks will lose value much faster than BCH (congratz to those who sold at 0.1BTC+, I did not, selling now). The Segwit 1x vs. 2x is a bit special situation and it is probable that one of branches dies. If Segwit 1x fails to succeed they have to make another change of code and POW and it will make segwit1x probably an altcoin and segwit 2x will be the bitcoin. But who knows. After Bitcoin gold will come one day Bitcoin POS, especially if Segwit2x wins and I think it might have a great success. There is the sentiment against evil miners and Bitcoin Gold is one of the early results.

    For now I am curious if there is already a policy by bookies and affiliates which branch they will support. I guess it is not yet, but I would like to know. For example Bodog supporting 2x on default would be a big news.
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  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    Fellow Bitcoin Holders (or Hodlers if you are).

    The split has occured and BitcoinCash is alive (just) - taking around 6 hours to mine a block.
    This will be sorted over time as the algo will detect the long delay and make it easier to mine BCH (Bitcoin Case).

    But for those of us who have picked up new BCH tokens the question is now what to do with them?
    Currently BCH are around 245 and BTC are 2750 - so 1 BTD is approximately 11 BCH

    So I see four choices.
    1/ Keep BCH in parallel with BTC. (hold both)
    2/ Sell the BCH to BTC. (Maximise BTC while BCH price is holding some value)
    3/ Sell the BCH for cash (Take the money as a dividend)
    4/ Sell some BTC for BCH (Hey - maybe you think the BCH is the future).

    What are you going to do?
    Will you sell BCH quickly, hold and wait, or buy more?

    I'll probably take the middle ground this week - hold and wait - how about you ?
    Personally, I would love to be holding both. Especially Bitcoin Cash, because who wouldn't want to be holding the sweet bundles of cash in their hands?

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  14. #109
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    Bitcoin Cash doesn't have a purpose. I had to pay for S9 miners with BCH, the transaction cost the same as a BTC transaction and I was waiting for it for 12 hours. So, BCH doesn't have a purpose. Its sole purpose was to inflate bitcoin value and give everyone a 10% bonus. If you hold thousands of bitcoins, that's a hefty bonus.


    Of course, in terms of speed and price of transactions, SegWit2x makes no sense whatsoever. It's laughable. A double increase in block size (we already have SegWit1x) won't solve the problem we have now and definitely won't solve it for the future. Scaling problem can't be solved by something that isn't scalable.


    Lightning network - side chains where transactions are processed really fast and then uploaded to the blockchain in bulk - is the answer.


    SegWit2x is just another coup attempt by people who are trying to control bitcoin. There will be many more, and they're not decreasing the value of the main blockchain - whatever it may be - where there are only 21 million coins.


    I don't know what to do during the fork though. Should I run a full node, or should I put my BTC at a wallet that will automatically give me both coins? As far as I understand, I'll be able to spend the new coin or buy BTC with it, which means it's free money.

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  16. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    Bitcoin Cash doesn't have a purpose. I had to pay for S9 miners with BCH, the transaction cost the same as a BTC transaction and I was waiting for it for 12 hours. So, BCH doesn't have a purpose. Its sole purpose was to inflate bitcoin value and give everyone a 10% bonus. If you hold thousands of bitcoins, that's a hefty bonus.


    Of course, in terms of speed and price of transactions, SegWit2x makes no sense whatsoever. It's laughable. A double increase in block size (we already have SegWit1x) won't solve the problem we have now and definitely won't solve it for the future. Scaling problem can't be solved by something that isn't scalable.


    Lightning network - side chains where transactions are processed really fast and then uploaded to the blockchain in bulk - is the answer.


    SegWit2x is just another coup attempt by people who are trying to control bitcoin. There will be many more, and they're not decreasing the value of the main blockchain - whatever it may be - where there are only 21 million coins.


    I don't know what to do during the fork though. Should I run a full node, or should I put my BTC at a wallet that will automatically give me both coins? As far as I understand, I'll be able to spend the new coin or buy BTC with it, which means it's free money.

    Yes 100% agree.

    Did you see eBTC on the ethereum blockchain? Now that's the biggest cash grab ever. They didn't do an ICO for it.. instead they just gave out 20million coins.. the main developer also conveniently left out the code where coins can't be duplicated.. lol.

    if you're not investing in alts (which is bearish AF right now) then it makes sense to have the BTC in a wallet when the fork happens and then carry on with your business.

    The real power comes from the miners anyway, that's why one of the reasons we saw a huge spike in bitcoin cash, it became more profitable for the miners to mine that instead of BTC so naturally the price goes up, now its back down again because the miners are back to BTC thus giving it all the horsepower or hashpower as they'd like to call it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    My humble opinion is that we should not tell the others what they should do, study etc. or at least not in even slightly offensive way. But I am not mod, true.

    I do see where you're coming from. Would I be right in assuming that english isn't your first language?

    In saying that, we can pussy foot around and play mr polite to avoid hurting someones feelings (which I doubt I did) OR we can say it as it is. If someone is spreading false information there's no problem with correcting where they're wrong and telling them they need to do more research to increase their understanding of the subject.

    Otherwise we have other people reading it and they may actually avoid buying bitcoin because they think its going to be worth zero one day because of the hardforks.

    Doubt I hurt anyones feelings. Just thought I'd point out this type of thinking gets you no where except fake bullshit because you can't give it to anyone straight.

    With all due respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    I don't know what to do during the fork though. Should I run a full node, or should I put my BTC at a wallet that will automatically give me both coins? As far as I understand, I'll be able to spend the new coin or buy BTC with it, which means it's free money.
    Def put the coin into your wallet*. If you support NO2X movement then running the node will not hurt, but on large scale will not help.

    Again: this fork will be different and there is higher chance there will be just one surviving coin after that than two. Meanwhile it can be nasty and the network can be disrupted during the war.

    *Before Oct 25th when the other fork for Bitcoin Gold occurs (it will be the free cash)
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  19. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floyduss View Post
    I do see where you're coming from. Would I be right in assuming that english isn't your first language?

    In saying that, we can pussy foot around and play mr polite to avoid hurting someones feelings (which I doubt I did) OR we can say it as it is. If someone is spreading false information there's no problem with correcting where they're wrong and telling them they need to do more research to increase their understanding of the subject.

    Otherwise we have other people reading it and they may actually avoid buying bitcoin because they think its going to be worth zero one day because of the hardforks.

    Doubt I hurt anyones feelings. Just thought I'd point out this type of thinking gets you no where except fake bullshit because you can't give it to anyone straight.

    With all due respect.
    It has nothing to do with the fact that English is not my 1st language. I understand what you are saying and that Gooner is not replying, which is sad.

    If I can tell you then you are telling here many things about bitcoin and blockchain and you think they are granted. They are not. Especially when it is about forks, there is a lot of uncertainty. Sure: some things are obvious nonsense, but some are not. Like nobody can say 2X is scam or 1X is scam. Whoever is taking sides into this extent is dogmatic. At Bitfinex anybody can already buy or sell 1X and 2X branches (bets on futures). The odds are 70:30 in favor of 1X. Therefore making strong statements should be avoided. There are 2 strong groups one against each other and we should be grateful for that. The tension is vital. Miners must have power, because they stake the money. Devs will always have power, because they write the code. And people will have power always as well, so if the miners and devs do things really wrong, they users can always switch to some altcoin and that is the insurance which makes the ecosystem strong.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
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  20. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    It has nothing to do with the fact that English is not my 1st language. I understand what you are saying and that Gooner is not replying, which is sad.

    If I can tell you then you are telling here many things about bitcoin and blockchain and you think they are granted. They are not. Especially when it is about forks, there is a lot of uncertainty. Sure: some things are obvious nonsense, but some are not. Like nobody can say 2X is scam or 1X is scam. Whoever is taking sides into this extent is dogmatic. At Bitfinex anybody can already buy or sell 1X and 2X branches (bets on futures). The odds are 70:30 in favor of 1X. Therefore making strong statements should be avoided. There are 2 strong groups one against each other and we should be grateful for that. The tension is vital. Miners must have power, because they stake the money. Devs will always have power, because they write the code. And people will have power always as well, so if the miners and devs do things really wrong, they users can always switch to some altcoin and that is the insurance which makes the ecosystem strong.

    IMO the fork isn't a big deal. Bitcoin will carry on like it did before. The bets are just simply on whether the 2x will be the one with mass adoption. For it to work it would have to have more people use it then bitcoin.

    This is just about scalability. Some dev's think it's better to increase blocksize which is why the fork is happening.

    Bitcoin will still be bitcoin, it will still have mass adoption, they will continue with solving the scability problem with the lightning network and life will go on.

  21. #115
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    The problem of scalability for November is just a proxy. Bitcoin can work perfectly in short and mid term as 1x or 2x.

    The adoption of Segwit and potential adoption of higher blocks is something new in human history. It is a test of decentralized corporate governance. It should work based on game theories. But the game theories work only if actors involved are rational at least into some extent.

    The question here is how much are people rational. Miners must be, because they are after profit. But users... who knows. There is a lot of ideology, feelings, personal attacks. Bitcoin has a lot of magic around. It made and will make many people rich and attracts even more people who want to be rich. It is a lot of emotions, projections, dreams. And it is uncharted territory where even the best experts are always wrong, so even the biggest idiots (who usually have nothing in stake) need to express their opinion and join one of the two camps.

    But now the decisive battle will be here because there is and will be just one Bitcoin. One side will lose and will:
    - either develop/support the forked altcoin
    - or join the winning code of Bitcoin
    - or live in conspiracies about corporations and bankers who did a takeover

    I like it very much, because now even the losers in all human areas can somehow survive and express their opinion as equally valid.
    But the above said means that if you lose you:
    - either just barely survive
    - or join the winner
    - or become mad

    And that is the result of the new corporate governance. Bitcoin will most likely survive even stronger than before. If btc survives I would not be surprised to see a new cryptobullrun. I do not know if this https://www.valemount.io/market-update-106/ is already true. But soon it will be.
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  22. #116
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    I can not verify it atm, but it seems bookmaker.eu/cris started to accept BCH deposits.

    edit: Bodog too!

    https://calvinayre.com/2017/10/17/bi...coin-cash/amp/ wow, this is nuts

    will bp pay us in BCH?

    Calvin Ayre
    Look...Segwit is a failure and BCC is the future...argueing about this is like arguiing about the deck chair arrangement on the titanic as is slips beneath the waves.
    So I am sorry, when I disagreed that Calvin is not under Craig Wright's influence. Crypto world is amazing.
    Last edited by Sherlock; 17 October 2017 at 8:03 pm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    So I am sorry, when I disagreed that Calvin is not under Craig Wright's influence.
    He may just have a huge personal stash of BCC.
    Most loud crypto voices are simply using their bias to sell one coin or another these days.

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  26. #118
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    He was for sure pretty much loaded with BTC so he has also BCH as everyone.* But it would be weird for a guy like him if he does not put money where his mouth is.

    Interesting is BCH started to raise yesterday at the same hour as the article was published.

    It will be interesting to watch. I sold just small part of BCH and I am stopping for this price, even when I quite hate it.

    * Maybe has more BCH than BTC because they accept and pay out bitcoins, but pay out until now just bitcoins.
    I am curious how the Bodog cashier looks like now (and how confused will be the bettors).
    Last edited by Sherlock; 17 October 2017 at 10:35 pm.
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    They better not start paying affiliates with their personal shitcoin or there will be mutiny. What a ridiculous article. A similar one was posted on Bitcoin.com which is Roger Ver's site, so its an organised campaign of misinformation, no doubt behind the small bump in price. I told you Ayre is in league with "fake Satoshi" fraudster Craig Wright.
    Last edited by Muppet; 17 October 2017 at 11:29 pm.

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  30. #120
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    Ah, it was you. Sorry once again.

    I do not care with which shitcoin I am paid with, but if it is BCH we will see even bigger slippage on paydays. It can be interesting to trade.
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