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  1. #21
    arkyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    Greek summed it up...

    Conferences are a cash cow, and the conference organizers don't seem to care about the ethics of the companies involved.

    I feel sorry for the clueless newbie affiliates that get duped by Cpays and new programs that will likely be out of business within a year, but what can you do... Affs really need to do their own homework by reading forums and T&Cs beforehand.

    But back to the main topic -- I would like to see the conference organizers publicly ban programs such as Cpays, Playshare, and Vegas Affiliates. I doubt it will happen, but I'd have great respect for whoever had the balls to do something like that.
    Exactly as are sites like CAP & GPWA - they are cash cows and as we all know they don't do things with the best interest of the community in mind - they are thinking of how to pad their own wallets.

    This forum started to address the idea of too many conferences last year when the CAP saga was playing out - obviously those discussions had no affect as the conference organizers are getting in line to turn their own profits in as many locations as possible! I reckon if the unethical programs were kept out - their might not be enough booths to turn the profits.

    At the end of the day its up to you as an individual to speak with your feet - dont attend those events which foster crap and start addressing your partners who eagerly fork over bundles of cash to support those organizers and end up seting up booths next door to crooks.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpratt View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Sorry I am late in replying - Had no idea this thread was going until someone sent me the link.

    I would like to first say conferences aren't simply a cash cow - Of course they make a profit but the aim of our events and in fact the entire model from the very start was to put affiliates first, hence charging nothing to attend and putting on items like the free bar in the afternoon, the ASOP, and paying for parties when they aren't sponsored -

    When you take into consideration that we pay a fee to the venue for every person at the event for the food, coffee, venue, internet, electricity etc etc you will soon find the costs we have really are astronomical - I am not complaining just offering a little perspective on the accounts behind the event.

    With regards to rogue programs etc. the situation is indeed tricky, because for one with Budapest we have signed contracts and can't simply cancel these otherwise we will be in a whole world of trouble and as far as my knowledge goes these companies signed up when their t&c's were fine.

    Moving forward I am more than happy to listen to suggestions and I will be honest with you I am not massively up on track with the terms and conditions etc.

    What would make this much easier is if there was a group of people formed that are to a degree independent and have a complete understanding of the t&c's, programs ethics etc that can at least advice me or explain to me who we should not be letting exhibit and exactly why becuase I will have to go to my CEO still and tell him he is getting less revenue because........and this reason has to be good as he isn't in this sector and as a floated company his role is to deliver teh biggest profit possible.

    What I really don't want to do is simply listen to the loudest people in forums and stop programs that for the majority of people are decent and honest.

    What ever happens this is extremely sensistive and I have to ensure I handle this correctly and that if I tell a program they can't exhibit I need to know the exact facts as to why and also what they need to change in order to lift that ban so that its completely clear.

    I hope thats clear - Maybe Michael/J Todd we could sit down in Budapest and discuss this further because I guess you are in the same boat (kinda) with the forum and already may have some kind of tactics in place
    Hi Alex,

    Thanks for coming by.

    I think that it would be clear on which programs are raising flags. Consulting with AGD and APCW would make that task easier I think.

    I also wouldn't expect you to pull any plugs on Budapest at this late date. This thread is merely feeling out how everyone feels about programs that are harmful to affs being displayed at conferences. It's a ligitimate concern and I appriciate your listening.

    At this point just listening to affiliates and being willing to come to a solution makes a big difference. Sitting down with others in Budapest is a great start.

    There is nothing wrong with making a profit! That's why we are all here and I hope everyone can be as prosporous as possible.

    However, we would't want to invite Bernie Madoff to an investers conference. I feel that much of it is common sense. Perhaps hard working ethical programs don't want a booth next to a predatory program also. I don't know that for sure but if it was me, I certainly wouldn't.

    Thank you for listening Alex. I think it will be a busy Budapest for some of you and I for one really appriciate that.

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  5. #23
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    However, we would't want to invite Bernie Madoff to an investers conference.
    You got that right! Did you see the recent photos on the news of how he lived? Not sure what he did with the money, but it wasn't spent on furniture.

    IMO that sums up the situation and is very well put mojo.
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Hi Alex,

    Thanks for coming by.

    I think that it would be clear on which programs are raising flags. Consulting with AGD and APCW would make that task easier I think.

    I also wouldn't expect you to pull any plugs on Budapest at this late date. This thread is merely feeling out how everyone feels about programs that are harmful to affs being displayed at conferences. It's a ligitimate concern and I appriciate your listening.

    At this point just listening to affiliates and being willing to come to a solution makes a big difference. Sitting down with others in Budapest is a great start.

    There is nothing wrong with making a profit! That's why we are all here and I hope everyone can be as prosporous as possible.

    However, we would't want to invite Bernie Madoff to an investers conference. I feel that much of it is common sense. Perhaps hard working ethical programs don't want a booth next to a predatory program also. I don't know that for sure but if it was me, I certainly wouldn't.

    Thank you for listening Alex. I think it will be a busy Budapest for some of you and I for one really appriciate that.

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  7. #24
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    Well, there's ethics and there's money - and where the two mix then it appears that the lines become blurred.

    Without wanting to detract from the trust of this thread - this week I've watched several vocal affiliates happy to take part in a "FREE" NFL picks competition sponsored by a sportsbook that is well known for ripping off players !

    I do not find that ETHICAL - I think that the acceptance of the sponsorship is a tacit endorsement of SPORTSBOOK.COM and their bad behaviour - and allows them to promote to other affiliates that they are working with both PAL and GPWA ... thus sucking in more affiliates and eventually players)

    ... but then there is a potential $3K carrot in prize money dangled in front of affiliate participants, and it appears that the $$$$ signs can over-ride corporate bad behaviour.


    Pulling back to this thread, I see no difference between :
    - inviting affiliate companies with dubious histories to conferences,
    - accepting competition sponsorship from companies with dubious histories,
    - accepting advertising from those companies and putting them on your sites.

    I said at the start of my post : There's ethics and there's money - and where the two mix then it appears that the lines become blurred - well I try hard to make sure that it does not occur in my neck of the woods.

    So to answer the thread - How do I handle rogue companies at conferences?
    I don't care - because in MY world they are not a viable business option.

    I have nothing to do with them at the conference - I walk past their stand ("No Thank you" if they try to approach) - I will not accept their freebies - and will remove their logo from any conference pass I'm given.

    I will not have them on my site - and will not participate in any way with them including freebie competitions

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  9. #25
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    Gooner, as much as i wanted to play and try to win that $3k, you are absolutely right, and i am bowing out of the competition. I need to live by my ethics also, and though i do not promote Sportbook.com, and have never even seen the place, I will not take part in an event with them if they are rogue or blacklisted by my peers.

    Thank you for enlightening me on this group and i plan on staying away. Also, Conference's are none of my business, who runs them or makes money off them because i have never gone to one, but for a community who blacklist bad casinos and the programs, to turn around and invite them to events, is just hypocritical.....sorry, don't mean to offend anyone here or anywhere's else but its the truth, and if we do not live by our own 'truths' then we are no better than the scum we berate.





    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    Well, there's ethics and there's money - and where the two mix then it appears that the lines become blurred.

    Without wanting to detract from the trust of this thread - this week I've watched several vocal affiliates happy to take part in a "FREE" NFL picks competition sponsored by a sportsbook that is well known for ripping off players !

    I do not find that ETHICAL - I think that the acceptance of the sponsorship is a tacit endorsement of SPORTSBOOK.COM and their bad behaviour - and allows them to promote to other affiliates that they are working with both PAL and GPWA ... thus sucking in more affiliates and eventually players)

    ... but then there is a potential $3K carrot in prize money dangled in front of affiliate participants, and it appears that the $$$$ signs can over-ride corporate bad behaviour.


    Pulling back to this thread, I see no difference between :
    - inviting affiliate companies with dubious histories to conferences,
    - accepting competition sponsorship from companies with dubious histories,
    - accepting advertising from those companies and putting them on your sites.

    I said at the start of my post : There's ethics and there's money - and where the two mix then it appears that the lines become blurred - well I try hard to make sure that it does not occur in my neck of the woods.

    So to answer the thread - How do I handle rogue companies at conferences?
    I don't care - because in MY world they are not a viable business option.

    I have nothing to do with them at the conference - I walk past their stand ("No Thank you" if they try to approach) - I will not accept their freebies - and will remove their logo from any conference pass I'm given.

    I will not have them on my site - and will not participate in any way with them including freebie competitions
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  11. #26
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    Good post Gooner. I hadn't seen that thread but I can appreciate what you're saying.

    Good for you for speaking up and Giggles too. It may not seem like much to some, but our individual voices matter.

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  13. #27
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    I completly understand the 'logic' behind what you are saying. Does that apply to supporting a "rogue" forum like CAP?

    CAP was caught red-handed and been proven to have done wrong last year and, if i'm not mistaken, yet you guys are over there supporting them.

    So, if we apply this logic to any and ALL aspects of this industry then none of us would be as innocent as we would like to appear.

  14. #28
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    What can I say that has not already been said here in the proceeding posts.

    Everyone know's who are the good guy's & doll's,but we all smile and say hello............its a survival battle and not just in online gaming
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  15. #29
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    Robin, are you actually defending a place that is known to not pay players?????
    YOu have me confused now.

    As far as Cap goes, I stop in once and awhile because till this day some programs that are good programs still post there updates there and no wheres else, and as i make hardly no money in this industry through affiliates, i need all the info i can get, but what i don't understand is how you can make the statement you made about CAP, when i do believe if Lou was running the show and not Warren, you would still be there yourself.

    I don't want to argue, but i just don't understand how you can be defending a place that works the same as Grand Prive', VA' and Playshare, and others when you are at the same time opposed to them?

    Don't you dare get pissed at me either, you brought this up and made it personal.

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  16. #30
    Shaun O'neill is offline Former Affiliate Manager
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    I really wish I did have a UFC cage in Buda rather than a stand I think it could have been a lot of fun and some of you guys coul dhave had real fun or maybe the sumo outfits would have been fun......

    Shaun

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