Huge Negative in the stats

[GCG]

I am aware Affiliate Edge has a negative carry over.

Because I have this huge negative balance of $15700 I do not know how to move forward, removing all CWC / Affiliate Edge brands seems the only sensible option at the moment.

I have managed to even out a $3000 negative balance before but this is just to overwhelming and I feel I am wasting my time.

What do you think ?

[AE-Martyn]

Hi. Thanks for getting in touch. Please PM me your username and or affiliate ID and we'll take a look into this for you and see what options we have. We don't like seeing affiliates struggle and if there are options we'll definitely help you.

Don't remove is just yet, lets see what we can do from here to move forward.

[AE-Stephen]

Hi GCG,

I have taken a look at your account this morning, you do not have anything to worry about. There was a player you referred that claimed our non deposit sign up bonus for $60. he managed to win a staggering $77,000 from this however the maximum cash out is $300. We are just waiting for the player to verify his account and make a qualifying deposit then we will be able to remove the excess and adjust your negative. A player has 30 days from the moment they claim the free bonus to cash out, if they do not verify their account and make a qualifying deposit within the 30 days all balance is removed.

Thanks
Stephen

[F-L-C]

Wow I hope this player read the terms and conditions or he is in for a huge disappointment when he wants to cash out!

[theGman]

Not sure why the player should be disappointed - he is winning money and you cant expect $77k on free money can you , but i do know what you mean - teach him to stump up some cash next time to make his bets instead of using free money - at least he has some now to make a few bets

[robertmedl]

There are two issues that come to mind as I read this thread. These are general issues that I feel exist in the industry, and are not specific to Affiliate Edge -- so I'm not singling out Affiliate Edge as the only brand that should consider addressing these issues.

There was a player you referred that claimed our non deposit sign up bonus for $60. he managed to win a staggering $77,000 from this however the maximum cash out is $300

I propose that the player should never have even been permitted to reach $77k on a $60 free chip. Instead, online casinos should track playthrough and winnings, and popup a message to the player when a) the playthrough is met, and b) the max win is met. Casual online casino players are simply not going to keep track of playthrough, and I suggest that most first-time players do not even know what playthrough is. Same goes for max win -- casual and first-time players are probably not aware that a max win exists on free chips and bonuses.

So, in the interest of fairness and transparency, online casinos should do more to make players aware of playthrough and max win, and perhaps even prevent them from further play until they claim their winnings.

And it's good for business, too. Sure, the online casino is going to pay out more in free chip winnings because players are likely to stop when they see such messages of the kind I am proposing. But the winnings will likely be made back in the long run as the player is more likely to convert than if they had not won.

And imagine all the friends that they are going to tell about how they won. Contrast that with the number of people that are going to hear about how this player "got screwed" out of $77k.

To me, it just makes more sense to be proactive about informing players of playthrough and max win on free chips and bonuses.

Yes, I am aware of online casino T&Cs, and yes, all players are bound by them when the sign up, register, accept free chips, and accept bonuses. But let's be realistic here -- players do not read them when they sign up. Instead, online casinos should proactively make players aware of the relevant parts of the T&Cs when it matters to the player, which, of course, is when it impacts the money they have won.

A player has 30 days from the moment they claim the free bonus to cash out, if they do not verify their account and make a qualifying deposit within the 30 days all balance is removed.

Similar to my point above, online casinos should be proactive in contacting players under such conditions. When there is a time limit on playing free chips, playing bonuses, cashing out, online casinos should reach out to the player using any means at their disposal to make sure that the player is aware of the time-sensitive nature of the free chip, bonus, or cashout. Such players will post about their great treatment, tell all their friends, etc. Contrast with all the negative posts etc. that a player will make when they find that, for example, the money that they won on a free chip expired.

[AE-Martyn]

I just want to expand upon some points made in a totally open and relaxed manner...

I propose that the player should never have even been permitted to reach $77k on a $60 free chip. Instead, online casinos should track playthrough and winnings, and popup a message to the player when a) the playthrough is met, and b) the max win is met.

The trouble with this is that you're then preventing the players experience. What if the player knew fully what they were getting into and they wanted to push it to see just how much could be won in an online casino while still being able to cashout without losing any of their own money? This could be the spur that makes them want to deposit online if they are a new player.

Plus if we were able to restrict a players win amount, surely this would open up a whole new can of worms relating to transparancy and roguish behaviour? Could this process then be applied to real money players to restrict wins? If it could, could you trust that (any) casino to implement it in an honest fashion i.e. only on free chips?

Don't forget, it's not just one player playing a free chip, it's thousands of players playing a free chip and winning from them or losing them. Tracking them to a specific point would require resources unreasonable to ask of any team.

So, in the interest of fairness and transparency, online casinos should do more to make players aware of playthrough and max win, and perhaps even prevent them from further play until they claim their winnings.

In our case, I believe we do make it clear to the player the retrictions on any free chip claimed. In this case, the $60 offer is explained in the T&C's on the casino website. On top of this the full terms including playthrough are listed when the user redeems the code in the cashier. It gives full information as to what games can be played and how much they count towards playthrough etc.

Players also have their wagering tracked within the cashier so they know where they are up to regards a specific bonus. If they don't know where that is or they don't understand it we have 24/7 live help that can provide support for those that want it.

Contacting each player on an individual basis would be an impossible task due to the high volumes of players that claim these offers.

And it's good for business, too. Sure, the online casino is going to pay out more in free chip winnings because players are likely to stop when they see such messages of the kind I am proposing. But the winnings will likely be made back in the long run as the player is more likely to convert than if they had not won.

And imagine all the friends that they are going to tell about how they won. Contrast that with the number of people that are going to hear about how this player "got screwed" out of $77k.

No one is getting screwed. Sure it's a 'what could have been' situation but players who claim the free chip must complete wagering requirements before a cashout is allowed, winning more makes this process easier giving a non-depositing player $300 in real cash available to cashout from a free chip.

To me, it just makes more sense to be proactive about informing players of playthrough and max win on free chips and bonuses.

Yes, I am aware of online casino T&Cs, and yes, all players are bound by them when the sign up, register, accept free chips, and accept bonuses. But let's be realistic here -- players do not read them when they sign up. Instead, online casinos should proactively make players aware of the relevant parts of the T&Cs when it matters to the player, which, of course, is when it impacts the money they have won.

Similar to my point above, online casinos should be proactive in contacting players under such conditions. When there is a time limit on playing free chips, playing bonuses, cashing out, online casinos should reach out to the player using any means at their disposal to make sure that the player is aware of the time-sensitive nature of the free chip, bonus, or cashout. Such players will post about their great treatment, tell all their friends, etc.

Valid points raised regards to players who do/do not read terms and conditions, however whose responsibility is that? We make them available for everyone to see and point them out to all. Nothing is hidden at our casinos.

Our cashier, as mentioned above does make the terms to any bonus redeemed available to the player. They can also go back and review these at a later date should they need clarification.

Contrast with all the negative posts etc. that a player will make when they find that, for example, the money that they won on a free chip expired.

Put into context and consider that that player would be complaining about money they had won without making a single deposit/wager with any real money of their own and the player did not (hypothetically speaking) comply with the T&C's. Any real money player who sees or hears that complaint will understand, it has happened before on a very well-known casino forum where players have issued the smack down without any requirement for the related casino to comment.

They are welcome to complain but in our case, I believe we make all players aware of T&C's of any bonus claimed whether they read terms and conditions or not, it's provided to them when they claim the coupon.

Don't forget, some of the responsibility also lies with the affiliate (any affiliate promoting any offer). They also have a responsibility to make the player aware of offers and T&C's to help prevent any unhappy situation. The better educated a player is when leaving an affiliate site, it is my opinion that the player will be more comfortable in playing online at the given casino while understanding the terms behind the promotions.

If casinos offered no bonuses of any type it would be a very dull environment for most players, the fact they do and they have restrictions on them does not mean that a casino does little to make players aware. Obviously I am relating my views and opinions to our business not to others.

Some good points raised though and I think there is always room to improve any working practice, within any business.

[GCG]

Interesting how somebody can "win" $77K with this free chip.

I think the max cashout should be shown on the casino promotions page not only on T&C page.

Also banners should reflect a note.

[robertmedl]

Thanks for your response Martyn. Appreciate hearing your thoughts from your perspective.

And good point about affiliates have some responsibility in this area in terms of educating players about various offers as they are referred to online casinos.

Cheers!

[edgarf76]

That is crazy that a player won 77k on a no deposit signup. I have never heard of that big of a win before.

[GCG]

Today, 9:45 pm edgarf76

That is crazy that a player won 77k on a no deposit signup. I have never heard of that big of a win before.

I think so too this is quite unique and IMO the "winner" and affiliate should get a nice reward.

[AE-Martyn]

I think so too this is quite unique and IMO the "winner" and affiliate should get a nice reward.

I'll hand deliver you a little gift should you attend any of the upcoming conferences and we meet in person, it'll make your trip worthwhile and a great reason to attend.

Each time you see it you could think of me.

[DaftDog]

I'll hand deliver you a little gift should you attend any of the upcoming conferences and we meet in person, it'll make your trip worthwhile and a great reason to attend.

Each time you see it you could think of me.

It's a snow-globe with Martyn on the inside.