iAffiliates Payment problem's and Delay

[snello90]

Hi ,i write here because the affiliate manager doesn't reply to my email's anymore.
so,the problem is that :

My site have generated in the month of February ( 10february-10March) 2 new depositant players . with the cpa plane 20$deposit min and 70$ cpa .

The 13 March,my affiliate manager,David,send me this email :

Hi Andrea,

I have talked with the payment department and they say we have a problem with your players.
First, they both came and deposited only once, the minimum amount,
And most important you share funds with them via moneybookers,
We consider it as CPA abuse.

Please get back to me ASAP regarding this issue.
For the moment they hold the payment.

Waiting for your response,



David

i have replay with this email (13march)

hi David,what u mean only once,and the minimum amount?
i have no idea about how much those players deposit.
second,i share founds with them?
are u kidding me?
first thing i have no idea about who is those players,and second thing
how can u know about my moneybookers transation???
i have no money in moneybookers,and even if i had money,you can not
know to whom I am sending money, and who send money to me.right?
i guess that it's a excuse,for not paid,for 70$ cpa which are very
low, invented these ridiculous excuses.
Let me know
Andrea

after that david write me that (13march)

Hi Andrea,
I'm not with the risk department,
I'm just an account manager, when i ask if the sent you the money they say there was a problem.
I have no idea what they know or don't know, all i know is 2 things:

1. i have no Idea if it's the moneybookers or if they found another connection between those players and you.
they ask me to tell you the is a suspected fraud pattern, and that they are investigating it, and it has something to do with shared funds.
2. we are a respected affiliate program, we don't "con" our affiliates, especially not for $140. the mansion group has been around for some time now and it's known to pay what was agreed upon.
unless of course, there is a fraud or a cpa abuse.
As for myself, I will never be try and pull something like not paying an affiliate with excuses, this is why i communicate this email to you and ask for your respond.
please think if a friend may have been depositing without your knowledge and i will transmit your answer to the people incharge.

Hope it's all a big misunderstanding.
David

i answer with that email (14march)

Ok,so now i just need to wait the risk department finish the
investigation right???
well,u told me explicity : And most important you share funds with
them via moneybookers.
not other founds share.
aniway,i m wait the answer,for know what is that connection that risk
departmente are talking about.
cause i really have no idea about who is those 2 players,i have a
website,and i put my link in the signature of every site to which i'm
are registered,and is very much sites !!
so tell me how is possible i know those players,and most important,i
shared found with those :O
I m wait the answer,how much time need the risk department for solve that ?
Thanks

and this other (18march)

hey david,i m still waiting for a response for solving this
problem,there is a delay of 8 days about my payment,i m waiting
answers.

and this today (20 march)

Stil no answer ??this afternoon if i get no answer write a topic in gpwa forum and in affialate smart dog,almost there someone of iaffiliates can read b
and answer me.

Not heard from him since March 13.
So i hope with this topic he can come here and reply to me,or answer to my email's
or another manager,or someone in iaffiliates network answer my question.
Thanks a lot
Andrea

[snello90]

really??right now he answer me,if i don't open a topic in this forum the manager disappear,well,that's not very correct from a network.

Andrea,
As I said before, I have the risk team to contact you.


I will ask them again.

and my answer

yeah,it's passed a week,since u have reply my last email!!
i m waiting the money,or an REAL explaination to why i m still waiting
the money.

[iAffiliates]

Hi Andrea,

We apologize for this inconvenience. However, we are unfortunately unable to help you from this point forward. All further communications should be taken with fraud/risk department which can be reached by using this e-mail address: affriskescalation@mansion.com.

Best Regards,
iAffiliates

[-Shay-]

Forgetting that we're talking about $140 here for a second - these two parts of the program's response I personally find troubling,

#1 - "First, they both came and deposited only once, the minimum amount,"

#2 - "And most important you share funds with them via moneybookers,
We consider it as CPA abuse."

#1 - should not be an issue, as the terms of the CPA were agreed upon. If a player does the minimum, it is still "on the bus", is it not?

#2 - Is this speculation or is it a claim based upon fact? If it is fact, the risk department should support the claim and show the OP some evidence so that they can defend themselves. Otherwise, in my opinion, this is nothing more than an old fashioned "kidnapping for ransom money" with no true way to "free the hostages".

[snello90]

why iaffiliates are unable to help me?
i am registered at iaffiliates,right?
i am waiting the payment from iaffiliates right??

so why i need to contact mansion.com? well,okay,now i contact this email adress.

@Shay
yes u have right,for me is all excuses of iaffiliates!!!
i put off banner of casino.com cause this is not correct! really.
bad network for my opninon.

[Mansion Risk]

After extensive review we have found that the affiliates referral are fraudulent. We have linked the affiliate to the players referred by unique identifiers. Moreover, the affiliate has been found to be posting on numerous forums offering deals including advancing payment to players by Paypal in order for them to register and trigger his CPA payment and even offering to carry out registrations himself with the use of differing IP addresses. Examples of these posts can be found on the following link:
http://lockerz.italia.forumfree.it/?t=64814880 where partners for registration abuse are requested and even advancing the deposit amount to trigger the CPA are discussed.

We have an absolute interest in ensuring that our valuable business partner are paid correctly and on time for their valuable contribution to our business. However, we will not tolerate any attempts to defraud our brand and will invariably take forceful action to ensure the integrity of our brand, which is precisely what we have done here.

Mansion Risk

[snello90]

i already explain to you in email,two days ago,and u disappear !
u are lying !

that topic in that forum was about mondofortunacasino (network advplace (dot) com )
that in that period was accepting incentive !
and u can read in that topic,there is the proof,i have a ticket in advplace:
i50.tinypic.com/1z17l0i (dot) png

as you can see, me and carlo(affiliation manager advplace) was talking about mondofortuna cpa incentive!
and,when him told me that casino doesn't accept "anymore" inventive i have stop,well i have no started for really,as u can see in the topic u have linked,here : lockerz(dot)italia(dot)forumfree(dot)it/?t= 64814880
right??
so why u don't have reply to my email?
instead to write this lie here ??

i have no violated anithing!!
no rules,nothing,in u network,and in gpwa forum too.
i have not fraud.


that's the email i send you two days ago :

Hi Nelson,so why u don't ask me for explainations?before mark me AS A FRAUD PERSON??
i have an explaination,with proofs:
first : if u have read that topic,u know that this casino(mondofortuna) from advplace network (advplace.com) was incentivable,i have a proof here : look at the scrrenshot .
and read carefully what me and carlo petito(affiliation manager of advplace.com) was talking about.
so,u banned without paiyng me because i was incentiving a casinò(mondofortuna-from advplace.com network) (that in those period accepting incentive) .
Right ???
i have no violated anithing,if a casinò accept incentive,i can incentive,right?

in fact, when the affiliate manager told me that he was no longer eligible for incentives I did not enroll anyone.
and you have proof, you have the screenshot of the topic,well the topic is even online, because I did not delete it!
I leave everything in the light of the sun because I AM HONEST!


Now,you have the explanation about this topic,with the proof,that screenshot is the proof,now i guess u can riconsider u decision because this is all a big undermistaking right?
I m waiting for an answer.
and i m still asking myself why iaffiliates manager told me about i have share founds with moneybookers with those players.
i guess it's a mistake from david,i hope.
Let me know,
and thanks for reply me
I work with my site with no fraud,and if i earn something,i wanna be paid,honestly.no frauds.
I m waiting an answer.
and please,tell to gpwa forum to not delete my posts,it's very bad,world is a democracy.
Andrea

p.s. if u wanna talk to me by phone,and someone speak italian that is my number : +39 ******** (i can't speak good english)just write good.
because i wanna solve this misunderstanding.
Andrea

[universal4]

To me this appears as a clear indication that you pay players to join casinos using your affilite tags.

Rick
Universal4

[snello90]

was incentive,and gpwa moderators again delete my post !
i post the proof that that casinò accepted incentive.
but for gpwa is not good i post that proof.
bad publicity to mansion,iaffiliates and gpwa.
so do what u want,just people shd know that i have no chance to defend myself.
every post i put here,moderators,delete.
why?
something to hide?
whatewer,i can write in other forums,publishing that proofs.
take care

[snello90]

that's my reply to mansion :

Hi Nelson,so why u don't ask me for explainations?before mark me AS A FRAUD PERSON??
i have an explaination,with proofs:
first : if u have read that topic,u know that this casino(mondofortuna) from advplace network (advplace.com) was incentivable,i have a proof here : look at the scrrenshot .
and read carefully what me and carlo ******(affiliation manager of advplace.com) was talking about.
so,u banned without paiyng me because i was incentiving a casinò(mondofortuna-from advplace.com network) (that in those period accepting incentive) .
Right ???
i have no violated anithing,if a casinò accept incentive,i can incentive,right?

in fact, when the affiliate manager told me that he was no longer eligible for incentives I did not enroll anyone.
and you have proof, you have the screenshot of the topic,well the topic is even online, because I did not delete it! I do not delete topics, post like iaffiliates in gpwa right ??
I leave everything in the light of the sun because I AM HONEST!


Now,you have the explanation about this topic,with the proof,that screenshot is the proof,now i guess u can riconsider u decision because this is all a big undermistaking right?
I m waiting for an answer.
and i m still asking myself why iaffiliates manager told me about i have share founds with moneybookers with those players.
i guess it's a mistake from david,i hope.
Let me know,
and thanks for reply me
I work with my site with no fraud,and if i earn something,i wanna be paid,honestly.no frauds.
I m waiting an answer.

that's the proof :


i ask very nicely to gpwa please to don delete this post again.
thank you

[-Shay-]

Food for thought - suppose I decide to sabotage a competitor's relationship with a casino. If I spam one or two forums claiming I'll refund someone if they deposit from "my" affiliate link (although it is actually my competitor's) - do you (the program) conclude that the person who spams is the person who's affiliate link is posted in the forum and thus, they are guilty of CPA fraud?

To me, the initial email that was posted sounds like you're claiming "proof" that the players and affiliate are sharing "moneybookers funds" (worth noting, the claim is now PayPal).

Unless you have actual transaction numbers to back the initial claims, I think the "fairest" thing to do is compensate this guy for the traffic he has sent and then end your relationship with him going forward. Otherwise, it becomes a schoolyard "he said, she said" battle which does nothing more than leaves potential future affiliates shaking their head and swearing off doing business with you.

Cheers

[snello90]

Food for thought - suppose I decide to sabotage a competitor's relationship with a casino. If I spam one or two forums claiming I'll refund someone if they deposit from "my" affiliate link (although it is actually my competitor's) - do you (the program) conclude that the person who spams is the person who's affiliate link is posted in the forum and thus, they are guilty of CPA fraud?

To me, the initial email that was posted sounds like you're claiming "proof" that the players and affiliate are sharing "moneybookers funds" (worth noting, the claim is now PayPal).

Unless you have actual transaction numbers to back the initial claims, I think the "fairest" thing to do is compensate this guy for the traffic he has sent and then end your relationship with him going forward. Otherwise, it becomes a schoolyard "he said, she said" battle which does nothing more than leaves potential future affiliates shaking their head and swearing off doing business with you.

Cheers

you are right,but the thing that make me very mad,
it's that :
i have the proof that casinò was accepting incentive(already sent to mansion) mansion can you confirm please? (BE HONEST)
i already put in the topic here several times,but gpwa forum moderator's deleted that proof.
that's is not far.
really not far

[-Shay-]

you are right,but the thing that make me very mad,
it's that :
i have the proof that casinò was accepting incentive(already sent to mansion) mansion can you confirm please? (BE HONEST)
i already put in the topic here several times,but gpwa forum moderator's deleted that proof.
that's is not far.
really not far

So, you're saying that you have proof that they (Mansion) signed off on a specific promotion that you ran and then they shut you down for running the very promotion that they approved?

And you're also saying that you posted this proof on here but that the proof has been deleted repeatedly?

Post your proof on a website or blog you own so that it cannot be deleted. I'm interested in seeing this "proof" and I'm sure others are as well.

[snello90]

So, you're saying that you have proof that they (Mansion) signed off on a specific promotion that you ran and then they shut you down for running the very promotion that they approved?

And you're also saying that you posted this proof on here but that the proof has been deleted repeatedly?

Post your proof on a website or blog you own so that it cannot be deleted. I'm interested in seeing this "proof" and I'm sure others are as well.

no,i m saying that :
mansion accused me to make fraudolents leads like u can see in the forum lockerz (link up)
but i have no make fraudolents leads,because that casinò (mondofor t u n a from adv place network) in that period was accepting incentives .
and i have the proof that is the true .
the screenshot of a ticket with adv place .

so,they accusing me without found.

p.s.
if someone is interested when manager tell me that casinò don't accept anymore incentive i stop .
well,for say the true i never start to incentive.
like everyone can see in that topic forum (link up)

[TheGooner]

As a rule :
- Incentives for CPA are NEVER acceptable - especially if the minimum deposit amount is less than the CPA being paid.
- Incentives on rev-share are OFTEN acceptable, as there is little incentive or opportunity for a rort.

If you are admitting that you paid the two players $20 to earn CPAs of $70 ... well it doesn't take a MBA to work out why that will not be paid.

[snello90]

in that network was 30$ for 60$ cpa .
and WAS INCENTIVABLE. (and they don't paid me) because they see no gain.

if a network tell me incentive is acceptable why i I should not use it? there is rules.i respect rules.
if incentive is accepted i CAN incentive.
if not is accepted i CAN'T incentive.

i work with a lot affiliation,never had problems.i work with revenue share too .

in iaffiliates incentive is not accepted and i have not incentivized.


I was blamed for something and I'm defending! can i?

[TheGooner]

Snello - I'm sure you understand that casinos are running a business - and looking for profit.

The casinos / poker rooms / sportsbooks pay a CPA of $60 or $70, because (on average) a new depositing player might be worth $120 to $200 to them in the long term. But that's only true for a player that is depositing their own money - they may choose to deposit more money and eventually the program makes a profit.

An "incentivised" player that is only prepared to deposit the money that you give them ($20 or $30) is not EVER going to be worth more than that initial deposit - and expecting to get a regular CPA from this sort of traffic is naive and very unlikely.

You admit that you are incentivising players to minimum levels, and Mansion have clearly stated that they don't want your incentivised players and will not pay a CPA for them. It's called CPA fraud.

I'm sure that Mansion are happy to take incentivised players on rev-share, but then I'm also sure that you would not incentivise the players.

You do not have a viable business model - because it does not make money for your partners - only for you.
You might make a couple of short term profits but you are only harming your own sites name - and affiliates in general.

[universal4]

You have twice now in this thread accused the GPWA moderators of deleting some sort of proof you had.

I personally have notified the other moderators of this accusation earlier today, and neither myself nor the other moderators have any reason to delete such posts.

We do however, delete posts which contain personal attacks, and we will also remove posts that intentionally try to harm a person or business, or those with false and unfounded accusations.

I will also go on record and state that I personally do a good bit of the moderating here, and that the other moderators and administrators here consistiently talk about and discuss a fair amount of moderation when we do have to take such drastic steps such as deleting posts. (beyond the normal spam and such)

Instead of making accusations such as your posts getting deleted, and instead of accusing others of lying, why don't you try and work this out calmly.

Like Gooner posted, the casinos do not usually want to take incentivised players in most cases, and they would be silly to take them on a CPA basis. In fact many programs specifically outline incentivised traffic in their T.O.S.

If in fact you do have proof that they personally told YOU they would take your incentivised players on a cpa basis, then I and many other affiliates here would agree that you should be paid on those players, but even if you are paid on those players the likelyhood that you would ever be paid on future players is not very likely.

We understand that you are passionate about this situation, but we do ask you to calm down a little and reduce the amount of accusations you are throwing around as that is not helping your case any.

Rick
Universal4

[snello90]

Snello - I'm sure you understand that casinos are running a business - and looking for profit.

The casinos / poker rooms / sportsbooks pay a CPA of $60 or $70, because (on average) a new depositing player might be worth $120 to $200 to them in the long term. But that's only true for a player that is depositing their own money - they may choose to deposit more money and eventually the program makes a profit.

An "incentivised" player that is only prepared to deposit the money that you give them ($20 or $30) is not EVER going to be worth more than that initial deposit - and expecting to get a regular CPA from this sort of traffic is naive and very unlikely.

You admit that you are incentivising players to minimum levels, and Mansion have clearly stated that they don't want your incentivised players and will not pay a CPA for them. It's called CPA fraud.

I'm sure that Mansion are happy to take incentivised players on rev-share, but then I'm also sure that you would not incentivise the players.

You do not have a viable business model - because it does not make money for your partners - only for you.
You might make a couple of short term profits but you are only harming your own sites name - and affiliates in general.

You're right, but you do not understand the important thing in this thread !

i have no incentived mansion casino's (thing for which they have been accused)

i have incentived another casinò ( you can see here : http://lockerz.italia.forumfree.it/?t=64814880 )

but i have incentived,BECAUSE for this site in that period,incentive was accepted (and i have the proof)

you can see here


and i have no give money to noone because the campaign is never started like u can read in that forum.
so stop accusing me for things i don't have do!
Thank you

p.s.
and no,i m not admiting to have incentived mansion casino's because it's not true.
i never triyng to incentived mansion.

You have twice now in this thread accused the GPWA moderators of deleting some sort of proof you had.

I personally have notified the other moderators of this accusation earlier today, and neither myself nor the other moderators have any reason to delete such posts.

We do however, delete posts which contain personal attacks, and we will also remove posts that intentionally try to harm a person or business, or those with false and unfounded accusations.

I will also go on record and state that I personally do a good bit of the moderating here, and that the other moderators and administrators here consistiently talk about and discuss a fair amount of moderation when we do have to take such drastic steps such as deleting posts. (beyond the normal spam and such)

Instead of making accusations such as your posts getting deleted, and instead of accusing others of lying, why don't you try and work this out calmly.

Like Gooner posted, the casinos do not usually want to take incentivised players in most cases, and they would be silly to take them on a CPA basis. In fact many programs specifically outline incentivised traffic in their T.O.S.

If in fact you do have proof that they personally told YOU they would take your incentivised players on a cpa basis, then I and many other affiliates here would agree that you should be paid on those players, but even if you are paid on those players the likelyhood that you would ever be paid on future players is not very likely.

We understand that you are passionate about this situation, but we do ask you to calm down a little and reduce the amount of accusations you are throwing around as that is not helping your case any.

Rick
Universal4

well,rick i m calm down but think that :
u being accused in a forum,for something that you've never done ,and when u try to explain,posting a proof in you defense, this being canceled.
i think anyone gets angry .

okay,please don't delete this link to the image : http://i45.tinypic.com/2rhmvr4.png

[-Shay-]

OK, so if I understand correctly, you're saying that the program you offered CPA incentive for was totally unrelated to Mansion and iAffiliates.

Additionally, you're claiming that they (Mansion) are taking the context of an offer you made for A DIFFERENT casino and trying to place it into the context of "if you've done it to them, you obviously are doing it to us".

Whilst I agree that offering incentives for CPA is neither a good business model, nor is it in compliance with most/all affiliate program terms, I'm not convinced that Mansion has the proof they've claimed to have.

I don't read whatever language that post was written in, nor can I be bothered to translate it. However, unless Mansion has proof to back up their original claim that they "know" money was shared via Moneybookers, I STILL think that they owe for the CPA's. Going forward, just shut this guy down if you don't want his business. In my eyes, the right thing to do is either provide conclusive, real proof or pay up.