Monitoring your brand`s position on a portal

[Mindfulness]

Hey Everyone,

I`m fresh faced affiliate manager at an operator.
My question is, how would i go about monitoring my brand`s position on affiliate sites?
Obviously i dont want to have to stay checking them manually
I dont even know where to begin but I`m thinking something like web scraping? (which i dont really know how to implement either).

Could you provide some guidance?

[universal4]

Will your terms of service state you have intention of constantly scraping the affiliates websites?

Consistently scraping an affiliate's site might actually reduce exposure to your brands instead of increasing it.

Rick
Universal4

[eenzoo]

Dont care about your f.... position first. Care about the affiliate, on time payment, good conversions, admin fees, friendly program terms and your integrity and you will know your position without looking sites or scratching affiliate's doors

[Mindfulness]

I doubt the ToS is developed enough to include this. I`ll assume no, so nothing is to be deploying live. Still I`d still like to know how it can be done & given your use of the word 'constantly' I`m assuming scrapping impacts aff site performance? (Something i dont want).

In my mind I had timeframes of scrapping every few hours? I believe there should be no impact on aff perf? Or? I`d like a solution which does not impact the affiliate. How might it reduce exposure? The purpose is not to increase clicks/views etc... I dont imagine scrapping it every few hours should reduce exposure.

---

Eenzoo - I detect animosity towards operators (i`m not saying unjustified). This is not an idealised world. Those are things that I work on... but it also helps that i know that we`ve always been in the position we paid for. I worked at a large igaming affiliate & we ****** around with positions & did things we shouldnt. Now I was just in a conversation with an affiliate asking why he we`re not getting any FTDs. i`m not sure if he put us to a top position just now or we`ve always been there. So given I`m not sure I cannot accuse him but now i`m suspicious. This solution we alleviate suspicions.

[allfreechips]

every few hours? once a week should do it lol. Most affiliates will keep you on top if you convert, don't steal and have reasonable terms.

[chaumi]

I guess there are two angles to this:

1. You're on the portal because of your (site's) reputation/quality (both with players and from all the affiliate angles already mentioned).
2. You've actively paid the affiliate site for a listing and need to be sure the listing is maintained.

In the case of both, if it's a lack of FTDs that's worrying you most, then some manual investigation is likely needed to find out why. Is it the listing position? Or irrelevant of that is the affiliate site getting traffic (more specifically from regions that have potential to convert) and is that traffic of the type that has any conversion potential anyway (ie what's the search intent of the visitor to the site/page you're listed on?

Personally, I can't see how you would do that without enlisting manual thought processes and analysis (though no doubt AI might give you some pointers as debatable shortcuts)

If you were especially creative, you could be actively looking for ways to help the traffic volumes (of the right type) to the site/page where you're listed.

For number 1, again as covered already, do all the 'right' stuff and you probably don't have to worry about listing positions. And, to an extent, the listing is what it is and the site in question would have moved/delisted you for what they see as good reason. If you think you could influence the website owner in some way, that'll likely only be by making it even more worth their while to move you up or encourage them to promote you back up if they'd dropped you a little.

For number 2, yeah now you have more of a problem that needs a solution. As we've seen, scraping is out. I'd suggest that if there is any unobtrusive way of tracking, then other affiliate managers are the most likely to know. Sadly, you very likely wouldn't get any of them telling you that here and maybe the best chance is through (building/maintaining) personal relationships.

[Mattbar]

My question is, how would i go about monitoring my brand`s position on affiliate sites?

Trust, mutual respect, honestly. If we make a deal with a brand for specific exposure levels we don't change it unless we have reason to, such as; predatory terms changes, late payments and poor communication.

If you hold up your end most affiliates are respectful people and we will uphold our end. You shouldn't need to check a site every week if you and the brands you work for are trustworthy and you maintain an honest relationship with your affiliates.

There are bad affiliates like there are bad operators, some may alter listings after deals are made without reason but by being an honest program you will easily find out who they are and you can cultivate relationships with the majority who will honour deals.

[NoDepositCasinos]

every few hours? once a week should do it lol. Most affiliates will keep you on top if you convert, don't steal and have reasonable terms.

I agree with this. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the point of doing it every few hours, especially considering that you expect to grow over time, which would require more effort on your part to stay on top of everything. I think I would consider other metrics if I were in your shoes, but again, I might be missing something. As Enzoo, Chaumi, and Mattbar emphasized (it's no coincidence they all agree on this): have a good work ethic and cultivate relationships; that will take you much further than chasing to maintain a position on an affiliate website.

[Mindfulness]

You all assume its the affiliate manager you deal with who controls/influence any of the things you said.
Programme terms? = head decides
Conversion? = marketing optimisation/conversion etc... team/head decides
On time payment? = finance control this
Stealing? = head decides
Website layout/design = Obviously not me
Anything you have said... someone way above me decides.

This is conv has become the equivalent of you telling a waiter... hey make sure the food is good, prices fair bla bla bla and you`ll have no problems with customers. Do you think the waiter has any control on anything?

I am just asking you how i can keep tabs on my brands position without impacting the affiliates site. I cannot pay these listing fees for a top position so I want to know when my brand is dropping in their 'newest casino' list and tie it to the drop in FTDs AND also cover my ass from my own manager. Obviously this industry has bad actors so please keep the unpragmatic unrealistic responses for the idealised world.

I have not said or asked for anything which is harmful to anyone. I simple asked for a way to do something which can only reward trust and penalise cheats. You`d think affiliates would share this given theyre so 'trustworthy'... anyways... great way to send someone off who was originally trying to be fair.

[allfreechips]

You all assume its the affiliate manager you deal with who controls/influence any of the things you said.
Programme terms? = head decides
Conversion? = marketing optimisation/conversion etc... team/head decides
On time payment? = finance control this
Stealing? = head decides
Website layout/design = Obviously not me
Anything you have said... someone way above me decides.

This is conv has become the equivalent of you telling a waiter... hey make sure the food is good, prices fair bla bla bla and you`ll have no problems with customers. Do you think the waiter has any control on anything?

I am just asking you how i can keep tabs on my brands position without impacting the affiliates site. I cannot pay these listing fees for a top position so I want to know when my brand is dropping in their 'newest casino' list and tie it to the drop in FTDs AND also cover my ass from my own manager. Obviously this industry has bad actors so please keep the unpragmatic unrealistic responses for the idealised world.

I have not said or asked for anything which is harmful to anyone. I simple asked for a way to do something which can only reward trust and penalise cheats. You`d think affiliates would share this given theyre so 'trustworthy'... anyways... great way to send someone off who was originally trying to be fair.

If your not the person advocating for the affiliate website interest to the people that control these things then your not doing your job in my book.

[Mindfulness]

Your response has zero relevance to the real world. Or maybe you have no/little experience of how the real world works and can only mindlessly repeat idealised and vague responses with little real world application. Dont comment further.

[allfreechips]

Your response has zero relevance to the real world. Or maybe you have no/little experience of how the real world works and can only mindlessly repeat idealised and vague responses with little real world application. Dont comment further.

Interesting response, I just started in this industry so your most likely correct.

[eenzoo]

That EXACTLY is your job! If you are not in the position to agree on that question's above AND fulfill that agreement, its not worth to talk to you about a colaboration at all! You are the forfront of all departments you have mentioned, so if you have not the standing within your company, step aside a let me talk to someone in charge. Looking for a banner code, i can do by myself. If your are up to sneak around if i honor my obligations within a deal, do the same, Its just as simple like that.

And btw, that nothing about an idealistic world, its about work ethic. The AM's, we work for years with, acting exactly like that.

[eenzoo]

Interesting response, I just started in this industry so your most likely correct.

I see a bright future for Riviera Affiliates here ... funny people

Edit: seems Kindred is to blame ...

@Mindfulness ... if you questioning experience here, what year you have finished elementary?

[TheGooner]

IF you wanted a specific position on site, or article or banners in a certain spot - and you are paying a fee (monthly fee or % increase) then you would be justified checking them - and using scrapers is a natural automation.

Otherwise, you would probably be "majoring in the minors" checking actual spots and positions that you have no pre-ordained right to - if an affiliate re-orgs their site and partner banners then that's their right - it's not YOUR PROGRAMS property (unless you've got a specific positional deal as mentioned above).

And you'd be better off looking at the bottom line like turnover value, profits and perhaps technical values like New Depositors, clicks and impressions all of which are already available in standard affiliate reporting provided by programs.

[chaumi]

I am just asking you how i can keep tabs on my brands position without impacting the affiliates site.

I gave you an answer (of sorts) above, maybe you missed it, maybe it was just crap!..."I'd suggest that if there is any unobtrusive way of tracking, then other affiliate managers are the most likely to know. Sadly, you very likely wouldn't get any of them telling you that here and maybe the best chance is through (building/maintaining) personal relationships." And - if unclear - I meant 'personal relationships with other affiliate managers' ie so you can find out how/if they do it

You`d think affiliates would share this given theyre so 'trustworthy

This surprised me. Maybe I'm missing something or misunderstanding the sentiment. But you're an affiliate manager, and all the responses here are from affiliates who don't care about how an affiliate manager tracks his/her positions on affiliate websites. As such, the responses were all reasonable (although noted that they're not perceived as valuable to you by you personally,for all the reasons you made clear). You could probably have said all that in a way that was a little less terse!!

The bottom line is this is effectively the wrong audience for your question. You want to be talking to other affiliate/account managers. But it's likely that none of them would share if they knew (competitive advantage) and my guess is few would see this thread (and/or interact with it) anyway.

[Mindfulness]

...

[Mindfulness]

IF you wanted a specific position on site, or article or banners in a certain spot - and you are paying a fee (monthly fee or % increase) then you would be justified checking them - and using scrapers is a natural automation.

Otherwise, you would probably be "majoring in the minors" checking actual spots and positions that you have no pre-ordained right to - if an affiliate re-orgs their site and partner banners then that's their right - it's not YOUR PROGRAMS property (unless you've got a specific positional deal as mentioned above).

And you'd be better off looking at the bottom line like turnover value, profits and perhaps technical values like New Depositors, clicks and impressions all of which are already available in standard affiliate reporting provided by programs.

It would be a case of 'majoring in the minor' depending on the effort required to monitor said position. Which i`m still trying to figure out. I agree beyond a certain level its not worth it. Yes there are other aspects to consider when trying to look into this issue of FTDs but I am at this particular moment asking about position monitoring...

[Mindfulness]

I gave you an answer (of sorts) above, maybe you missed it, maybe it was just crap!..."I'd suggest that if there is any unobtrusive way of tracking, then other affiliate managers are the most likely to know. Sadly, you very likely wouldn't get any of them telling you that here and maybe the best chance is through (building/maintaining) personal relationships." And - if unclear - I meant 'personal relationships with other affiliate managers' ie so you can find out how/if they do it

This surprised me. Maybe I'm missing something or misunderstanding the sentiment. But you're an affiliate manager, and all the responses here are from affiliates who don't care about how an affiliate manager tracks his/her positions on affiliate websites. As such, the responses were all reasonable (although noted that they're not perceived as valuable to you by you personally,for all the reasons you made clear). You could probably have said all that in a way that was a little less terse!!

The bottom line is this is effectively the wrong audience for your question. You want to be talking to other affiliate/account managers. But it's likely that none of them would share if they knew (competitive advantage) and my guess is few would see this thread (and/or interact with it) anyway.

I believe it to be the right audience as I`m keen to hear from affiliates about solutions. I assumed I`d find more technical ppl here. I`m sure affiliates would not give solutions which are harmful to them. Unlike an operator affiliate manager... who might not care. I`d rather speak directly with my customers so I can hear any pain points as well. Do you see my reasoning for coming here?

Part of the terseness comes from me trying to find a mutually beneficial solution and then being told to control things beyond my pay grade clearly by people who dont know how things work in an office. You try to be fair to ppl and end up leaving irritated and wonder why you even cared in the first place. Funny thing is you`ll then see affiliates grumble about operators not being fair to them.

[chaumi]

Part of the terseness comes from me trying to find a mutually beneficial solution and then being told to control things beyond my pay grade clearly by people who dont know how things work in an office. You try to be fair to ppl and end up leaving irritated and wonder why you even cared in the first place. Funny thing is you`ll then see affiliates grumble about operators not being fair to them.

Yes, the terseness was noted (on my part anyway) as probably more born out of frustration. But think you're barking up the wrong tree by suggesting it's the responders here that weren't being 'fair'. Yes, some of the comments have a root in past (real) experiences that are not necessarily correct in your case...and (again on my part, but it will be true of others) the fact that you might be working in an environment where management aren't interested and just want their workers to do stuff but keep their mouth shut may not have been taken into consideration/fully realised.

None of that meant that any of the 'advice' wasn't meant to be useful. But, to me, it was all indicating that no one knew the answer to your question that you wanted to see. Hence the advice to try the sort of people that may have had experience with it. Yeah, I do understand your point using that avenue could be a pointless one.

This will come across as a criticism, but it's intended to have real learning value - have to point out (if you didn't already know) that you could have handled the 'frustration' element of your post above differently. Frustration sometimes makes someone go on the attack (ie to express an oh, **** you all, it's you not me sentiment), but that rarely gets a valuable result. We've probably all been caught with it one way or another, depending on age/experience. That's a learning opportunity for the future - count to ten, think about how you can say something the right way. You sound fairly young, lots of years to practice and master that.