Rant about payments

**lots0** · 18 July 2013, 10:45 am

Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access

...Being late occasionally is the norm. Being late consistently shows a lack of commitment to affiliates.

While I agree that consistently late payments shows a lack of "commitment" to affiliates (Louis you really should be writing for American politics.

).

I disagree that "occasional" late payments are the norm or that they should be considered a part of doing business with affiliate programs.

First, I would be wiling to lay odds that my definition of "occasional" is going to be substantially different than the definition from an affiliate program manager. I am thinking "occasional' is once every two or three years, not 4 or 5 times a year.

2nd, I have been doing business for a very long time. I pay my bills on time. If I don't whatever service I was purchasing gets cut off... the electricity, the Hosting, the Gas, the Water... whatever.

So it is just good business that when someone does not pay me on time, for whatever reason, that I stop whatever service I was providing to them.

In this case it is just good business to stop traffic to a program when they are late in paying.
Nothing says the traffic can't be restarted once the bill has been paid.

If the Affiliate does the redirection of his/her traffic correctly it can even increase the affiliates earnings...
by getting programs to compete more for our traffic and changing up the options for the punters...

Affiliates provide a service, we provide traffic.
If affiliate programs don't pay on time... the service(in this case the traffic) gets cut off... seems simple business sense to me.

**thebookiesoffers** · 18 July 2013, 10:52 am

Hi Louis

Can you as LauraT why I haven;t been paid for May yet from 12bet and why havn't I had a reply to my email about it for over 2 weeks?

**LauraT_IA** · 18 July 2013, 3:59 pm

Hi Aidan,

Payments for the month of May for 12bet, are still in the process of verification of stats. I will get back at you once the process has been completed and we proceed with payments to affiliates.

Thanks for your understating and patience,

**-Shay-** · 18 July 2013, 4:19 pm

Originally Posted by lots0

2nd, I have been doing business for a very long time. I pay my bills on time. If I don't whatever service I was purchasing gets cut off... the electricity, the Hosting, the Gas, the Water... whatever.

So it is just good business that when someone does not pay me on time, for whatever reason, that I stop whatever service I was providing to them.

In this case it is just good business to stop traffic to a program when they are late in paying.
Nothing says the traffic can't be restarted once the bill has been paid.

If the Affiliate does the redirection of his/her traffic correctly it can even increase the affiliates earnings...
by getting programs to compete more for our traffic and changing up the options for the punters...

Affiliates provide a service, we provide traffic.
If affiliate programs don't pay on time... the service(in this case the traffic) gets cut off... seems simple business sense to me.

Legendary & highly inspirational advice. This right here totally put things into perspective for me and has taken me off tilt. Thank you!

My partner and I are going to write this into our business plan going forward so that we have an automatic plan in the event a program is delayed in payment - without discussing/warning us in advance.

**-Shay-** · 18 July 2013, 4:24 pm

Also, thank you goes out to Louis for getting involved in the discussion. Your insight into this issue is very much appreciated.

I also 100% agree with your closing sentence!

Cheers

**Pmig** · 18 July 2013, 4:25 pm

Every single month I chase payments, despite what month is, always at least one program have delays...

I already stop promoting several programs and on the worst case publish bad reviews...

Payments on time is a must!

**thebookiesoffers** · 18 July 2013, 5:31 pm

Originally Posted by LauraT_IA

Hi Aidan,

Payments for the month of May for 12bet, are still in the process of verification of stats. I will get back at you once the process has been completed and we proceed with payments to affiliates.

Thanks for your understating and patience,

How long are we looking and what has caused this delay?

**bradz21** · 18 July 2013, 8:31 pm

chasing payments is the story of my life..I do this more then getting work done.

**Anthony-Coral** · 19 July 2013, 4:32 am

I was thinking about this thread last night and trying to offer some insight from an Operator perspective so its great to see that Elaine and Louis have already stepped in with their thoughts.

I've worked at several programmes and the payment process has been different at every single one of them.

At one I could literally generate the report and walk it across the office to the payments team who would start pushing buttons there and then and sending the cash on its merry way to you. Other places have an extremley structured approach requiring pre-payment estimates for each different pay method as well as sign-off from a number of different executives before a single penny even goes anywhere!

I would echo what Elaine and Louis have said so won't repeat it but I would like to add why threads like this are really useful for people like me and operators in general:

At all those places I worked actually making the payment was always 'somebody else's job'. As AM's we were primarily obsessed with managing the relationships and the traffic and planning ahead for what would come next week, next month, next quarter etc in terms of offers, events and deals. Once we have gone through the lengthy processes that Elaine accurately outlined and we have sent out the report to a payments team somewhere it is all too easy to feel as if we have 'done our bit' and move on to the next task, to a large degree as AM's we are getting paid regardless, right?.........right?

A thread like this and the comments it generates are a useful reminder to those on my side of the fence that payments to affiliates is actually the whole point of our little niche of online marketing!

**universal4** · 19 July 2013, 11:40 am

Good points Hodgey (as well as others in this thread) but Hodgey....in every case you stated above, it should be done around the same day each month and therefore should NOT incur any additional delay....and certainly if a delay does come up....the program should know about the delay well in advance and have plenty of time to notify the affiliates.

Rick
Universal4

**bradz21** · 19 July 2013, 4:10 pm

Not just the AM's. The operators themselves need to look at this issue from an affiliate point for view. This is our job, and how we pay the bills.

It upsets me that we affiliates make only a small percentage (25%) of the revenue generated while the operator is making 3X, (75%) more and they have a hard to pay us what we are owed..
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**Anthony-Coral** · 22 July 2013, 2:30 am

You're right Rick however I've still seen differences in the time it takes to actually start sending payments out.

That's why at Coral we are currently in the process of discussing and agreeing Service Level Agreements with our Finance Team for Affiliate payments so that we can get more dependable time frames.

**Louis - Income Access** · 22 July 2013, 9:05 am

I would also venture to say that brands who can't consistently pay within 10 or 12 business days (which seems to be the generally applied time frame for payments in most programs) should consider changing their terms and conditions to reflect a more feasible time frame.

While fast, consistent payments is clearly the ideal, it seems that slow, consistent payments would be preferable to fast, inconsistent payments, as the real frustration here is having to chase up payments or wonder if they will come at all.

**Pmig** · 22 July 2013, 10:04 am

I remember one time a company told me wants to pay on a 90th days basis, I just ask if the managers are on the gambling industry or if are selling refrigerators...

True story!

**lots0** · 22 July 2013, 10:48 am

Personally I have always thought that "Fast" payments were targeted toward the Punters.

Every single professional affiliate I know would rather have regular consistent on time payments to fast withdrawal type of payments that show up whenever.

Running a business and having a fling at the online casino are two entirely different things and require two different types of attitudes about payments.

Punters having a fling, want "fast" payments.
Affiliates running a business, want "regular" on time payments they can depend on.

Addendum:
Of course, there are affiliates that use their earnings just to play with.
But for the most part these affiliates are part time and not worried about paying bills or wages with their aff earnings, so they want Fast payments like the Punters do.
Most all professional affs want regular on time payments.

**-Shay-** · 22 July 2013, 1:06 pm

Originally Posted by lots0

Personally I have always thought that "Fast" payments were targeted toward the Punters.

Every single professional affiliate I know would rather have regular consistent on time payments to fast withdrawal type of payments that show up whenever.

Running a business and having a fling at the online casino are two entirely different things and require two different types of attitudes about payments.

Punters having a fling, want "fast" payments.
Affiliates running a business, want "regular" on time payments they can depend on.

Addendum:
Of course, there are affiliates that use their earnings just to play with.
But for the most part these affiliates are part time and not worried about paying bills or wages with their aff earnings, so they want Fast payments like the Punters do.
Most all professional affs want regular on time payments.

Definitely. I and every other business-person I know in the industry appreciate payments coming "on time" as scheduled.

To be fair to operators, it sounds like some payments go through a quick, easy process whilst others go through a long drawn out process. An easy solution would surely be to begin the process sooner so that you can pay on time and people like myself feel comfortable and confident in your program. Who knows, it might give "you" a bump in credibility if "you" follow the guidelines you set up in your program's terms and conditions, FAQ, and self-glossing homepages that boast "on time payments" as a reason to join & promote.

**universal4** · 22 July 2013, 1:30 pm

Totally agree with many of the posts here....

If you can't pay by the 15th consistiently each month, change the terms to reflect the time frame where you think you can meet each month and then stick with that time frame.

I doubt there are many groups that could keep much of the staff, (customer service as well as affiliate managers) for very long if they consistiently delayed their paychecks and handed them excuses for the delays month after month.

Rick
Universal4

**muffincrumbs** · 22 July 2013, 5:00 pm

Today I learned to stop complaining and drop the traffic... and wait for them to say something. I am going to do this with a casino in a particular group that continually gets deposits, but is always in the red even after me asking for a different deal numerous times. Maybe they will notice the sign ups stop or give me a deal so I can make money on the 5K+ deposited when I have not seen a dime from that casino in months.

I had a wire that was 2 months late with a "well respected" group here that allows US players. When it was obviously not coming, I asked her to make sure accounting (some dude in a basement) had the proper info. You know what she did?... NOTHING.

They tried to send it again with the wrong info that I had filled out accurately. Weeks pass, then another whole week passes with no response. Finally they sent me a statement showing it had been accepted to the wrong address, with the routing numbers and account numbers inverted, and accepted LMAO.

You try to get a wire accepted with the wrong info and a name that does not match... go ahead and let me know if it works. Its funny because I had said before about lying to my face... I think it is time to drop them too and pick up speed on the ones that are great for me:

Affactive - G-Wages - Ace Revenue << this is how you run a business.

Thanks for your for ranting, and thanks for the others who have shared as well!

**lots0** · 23 July 2013, 10:58 am

Well wouldn't you know it.... The one outfit that I thought I could depend on is now screwing the pooch on payments this month.
I am not going to name drop... But I am really disappointed.
Not just late payments but their stats have gone into the twilight zone.

Muffincrumbs... the programs you named... I learned the hard way. The same thing your going through.
My advice. Drop them... and never look back.

Your NEVER EVER going to get a fair deal from any those programs.

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