Returns vs Chargebacks

[TravG]

What is the difference between returns and chargebacks. I would think returns are chargebacks that the casino recouped? If that is the case and an online casino "detags" a player because of chargebacks, and hence the rev you generated dissapears also because of the chargeback, what happens if they do in fact recoup those deposits.

Maybe I am overthinking this??

[Renee]

Returns are the same as a chargeback, it's just the method is different.

For example, an echeck return is when the funds were not received by the casino for some reason, could be that there were insufficient funds, or that the account number was entered wrong etc. I'm not sure how other groups work, but I do not deduct these as chargebacks until it is 100% definite that we are not able to retrieve those funds from the player.
The reason this happens is because echecks take about a week to go through but the funds are available immediately in the casino account.

Hope that helps!

[usaonlinecasino]

I think this is casino's operation problem. It should not be affiliate's error. This kind of chargeback is unfair to the affiliate who get nothing.

[TravG]

It's just weird because in the reports one is a negative and one is a positive?? I dont think the above is true however. While it is frustrating from an affiliate standpoint, if we still made money while the casino lost money that doesnt make much sense either. If the casino does recoup lost monies from players and if the affiliate isnt given what is due them now that is wrong.

I remember ChipSplit tried to pull something similiar a while back. They would take all the rev from the player regardless of how much the chargeback was. The % should apply to all things good and bad.

[Renee]

I think this is casino's operation problem. It should not be affiliate's error. This kind of chargeback is unfair to the affiliate who get nothing.

But the affiliate is getting a percentage of the money that was charged back, so it's only fair that the same percentage is deducted when there is a chargeback. It is a business partnership afterall.

@ UltimatePokerBonus - I'd say if one is positive it would be best to ask the affiliate manager of that program what it means then. The term returns for them may actually be "recovered". Very confusing.

[danielg]

In general returns are the same as CB, as Renee said, and therefore should come with the same "sign" for both, positive or negative- if it's not the case you should contact your affiliate manager, since each program can name things differently.

We, for example, use this column also to credit the account in case of max-cashout limitations. For example if a player wins $2000 on a free chip with max cashout of $50- the netgaming will show -2000, therefor lower your commission, but it's not correct since he can cashout only $50. In that case it's automatically adjusted by deducting a return of (-1950) which are actually added to your netgaming and are positive for you.

Best regards,
Daniel

[the_soc]

What is the difference between returns and chargebacks. I would think returns are chargebacks that the casino recouped? If that is the case and an online casino "detags" a player because of chargebacks, and hence the rev you generated dissapears also because of the chargeback, what happens if they do in fact recoup those deposits.

Maybe I am overthinking this??

That's about correct: a "return" (a misleading term in my opinion) is a case where an e-check type deposit did not clear and the funds weren't received by the casino. *However* that is not the same as a chargeback: when a deposit is listed as a "return" it can be, as you mentioned, as simple as a case of insufficient funds - as innocent as a player forgetting to add funds into his ewallet - or available funds not clearing in time, from the e-wallet to the player's casino account.

When Firepay used to exist, this caused a lot of "returns" and casinos would contact players to inform them that their funds hadn't cleared.

In most cases, "returns" can be recovered and these are not caused by a willful purpose on the player's part to cheat the casino. Therefore, I'd be careful not not use the term "return" interchangably with "chargeback".

Another thing, I don't think "returns" affect a casino's payment processing account: most online casinos are limited to 2% chargebacks per month of their deposits. If they exceed that amount, their processing account could be closed and they wouldn't be able to receive money. With "returns" and e-check e-wallets, I don't think this is the case....