Is a Rival tracking glitch costing you players…?

[KasinoKing]

I recently had a problem where players were clicking on a perfectly valid Rival tracking link where the clicks WERE recorded by the affy system, but it did NOT record when they went on to download & register at the casino…!
This has cost me possibly around 40-50 player registrations.

I used a standard tracking link (same as 100’s times before) in this format;

hxxxp :// RivalCasino.com/get/a/123456

Has anyone else had this problem, that they know of?


This is my full story (sorry it’s quite long, but I feel all details are important):
On Feb 3rd I posted an advert on a forum using the above format text link (unique to that post).
After 2 days I noticed clicks on the link were recorded, but downloads & registrations were not.
I knew for sure that several players had registered & played at the casino, because they posted about it.
On Feb 5th I contacted the casino in question to tell them about the problem.
On Feb 10th the casino manager replied that they couldn’t see what had happened and so he was “applying pressure” on Rival to get to the bottom of my problem.
On Feb 11th they e-mailed me a new link to use – and so I changed it.
They also said they had “feedback from Rival which indicates that the code which was originally copied from the banner allocation when creating this campaign was changed resulting in the tracking code not following the click through to download. The net result is that the cookie for tracking was ‘lost’.”
If anyone understands what that means & how a link from click-through to download can be lost – please explain!

I checked the report at that time & saw it had recorded 103 clicks, but still no downloads.
I asked on the forum and 16 members confirmed they had definitely clicked my link, downloaded & registered.
As everyone knows, forums have at least twice as many lurkers as members, so I reckon I should have seen double that number again in registrations – probably something in the 48 – 50 range in total.

I told the casino this and they asked me to ask the members for their sign-up names & e-mails. I refused to do this as I felt it was inappropriate to ask for personal details, and anyway why should I do their job for them? In any event this would not help track down the lurkers’ registrations.
I insisted they should get Rival to sort it out.

To their credit, the casino did manage to match and link 3 of my players from their forum names being the same they used as casino user names, but that was still a very small percentage of the total.

With yet another weekend approaching and my patience running very thin, I e-mailed the casino again on Friday Feb 22nd pointing out that Rival had now had over 2 weeks to sort this problem, and yet they still had not given any explanation or solution. I said I would give them 2 working days (until Weds am) to come up with the answers, or I would be forced to take further action.
On Monday the casino manager asked for more time, and out of the total respect I have for him I gave them 3 more days – until midnight on Friday Feb 27th.

Obviously that deadline has been & gone, and still no answer from Rival more than 3 weeks since I first reported this MAJOR issue, hence this post.
They did not want this made public, but since they have been unable to give me any sort of an answer or any assurance that this is a one-off incident which for some reason only effected my one link, I felt it was my duty to report this to my fellow affiliates in case any of you are suffering ‘lost players’ in the same way I did and want to get it investigated.


A few notes:
a) I feel I was very patient & gave Rival & the casino ample time to sort this MAJOR problem (more than 3 weeks), I sent the casino 12 e-mails chasing a solution, and they replied with a total of 12 e-mails too.

b) I totally blame Rival for this problem because it is their software which is used for the affy reporting. That is why I am not naming the casino in question – it is not their fault and they do seem to have tried very hard to help me with this issue.

c) The new link they gave me was in the format hxxxp :// www .RivalCasino.com/index.php?curency=GBP&id=123456 and definitely does work. Since I changed it I had a further 20 clicks, and 6 registrations were recorded in the normal way – this is about the minimum conversion rate I would normally expect.

d) I have just checked every campaign on all the Rivals I promote. On all of them except 2, every one which has any clicks has at least 1 download registered. The ones which didn’t had 15 & 9 clicks – I will investigate further…

All feedback appreciated, especially from any other affiliates who have had this same issue.

Thanks,
KK

[kwblue]

This is a real bummer I promote Rival more than any other... I cringe at the thought of having lost a LOT of players. This is something they need to fix AND PROVE IT.... Otherwise they are coming off all my sites, including my Rival-specific site.

All Rival Casinos use the Rival affiliate software - so that means it must affect them all.

Someone from either a Rival Affiliate Program or Rival themselves needs to take this project on until completion.

APCW - maybe it is a good time to re-start the audits?

[tryme]

This is a pretty serious problem because in essence it means that their tracking just doesn't work. If you are getting credit for the initial click but not the download or registering then the cookies are so short term that they are expiring mid session.

Not good at all.

[universal4]

This is another one of reasons that downloads should NOT be dependant on cookies. The exe should have the affid embedded in it, and should be read when the person loads the software reguardless if it is the day they got it or weeks later.

They might have the browser set to delete cookies.

They might delete cookies manually.

They might use an antispyware that removes them.

They might have cookies disabled.

I do not know if this Rival issue is related to cookies or not, but I certainly am interested in the otcome of this.

Rick
Universal4

[KasinoKing]

I do not know if this Rival issue is related to cookies or not, but I certainly am interested in the outcome of this.

I don't think this has anything to do with cookies - though I'm the first to admit I don't know very much about how they work.

I tried to add this PS to my first post earlier, but for some reason the forum settings wouldn't allow it:-

PS: I think there is an easy way to see if your links are working or not;
When I copy and paste any other Rival links into my browser, it changes to this format:-

hXXp: //www. RivalCasino.com/?id=123456

But when I do the same with my problem link I see this (instantly):-

hXXp: //www. RivalCasino.com/index.php

All codes were in the exact same format - so I can not understand why this problem one should be any different... <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[thisisvegas]

KasinoKing: Please email me the details including which rival casino it was. I'll get an answer quickly. Try to provide as much info as possible, otherwise the tech department can only speculate but one of the URL formats you listed is not something that is generated by Rival at all.

John

[universal4]

John,

Since you're hear and the question is handy for me at the time,:

Is the affiliate ID embedded in the download when a visitor does in fact download the software?

CasinoKing, if anyone can get you an answer, I do think John will scare one up.

In the end, I am willing to try and help you test this out....so keep me in mind.

Rick
Universal4

[thisisvegas]

Just to note this url isn't a format used by Rival:
hxxxp :// www .RivalCasino.com/index.php?curency=GBP&id=123456
I don't recognize it at all and tech support said they don't use this format.

Tech support told me to ask KasinoKing for the casino and some of the tracking URLs.

As for how the affiliate id is pulled along I don't know if it exists inside the actual download but I personally doubt it. I don't have the answer but I'm assuming it is something like this where the tracking ID is followed with the download link whether it is direct down link that popups the download file or takes you to the website. Maybe the exe program looks for the cookie but even if it doesn't I'd assume that the IP has already been tracked and linked to the affiliate.

Keep in mind I don't work with the programmers since it's Rival's software. I could be wrong but just giving my thoughts and opinions so don't take it as being fact regarding how the tracking works.

John

[casinobonusguy]

We are trying to ween our players off Rival and send them to Vegas Technology and RTG . For the number of players we send the value sucks I sent 116 First time depositers -real money players to a rival in february and made less than $5000 on that casino.

[KasinoKing]

KasinoKing: Please email me the details including which rival casino it was. I'll get an answer quickly. Try to provide as much info as possible, otherwise the tech department can only speculate but one of the URL formats you listed is not something that is generated by Rival at all.

John

Hi John!

I thought you had left TIV?

The new link was provided by the casino's own "tech team" - and works perfectly!
It's the old link (identical format to yours) which does not work.

I really appreciate your offer of help, but the manager of the casino in question is still working on this, and I don't think it would be fair to get another casino involved in their business... yet.

I will give him another week to get an answer from Rival, and if that is not forthcoming I will e-mail you the name of the casino - provided you promise to keep it strictly confidential.

One thing I might not have made totally clear is that all my other links (about 5 or 6) from this casino work totally fine - it is just this one link with a specific 6-digit code which does not work.
However, they used the SAME 6-digit code on the end of the new link which does work... (???)

Cheers!
KK <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[universal4]

As a side note to John,

All playtech's embed the affiliate id and profile into the exe when it is downloaded.

Some other programs also do this....

Bytheway, I haven't downloaded a Rival lately,. but happen to have had one handy for Irish Luck, and the campaign ID WAS embedded in the exe so I will try a few tests on other Rivals and see.

It may be that all Rival's do...(I thought I tested this theory before but not sure but I certainly will now)

CasinoKing, (sorry I wasn't trying to sidetrack your very important thread) I am available to help you with a little testing if you like when you get part of this sorted or whatever....just let me know if it's needed.

If it helps, the btag in the exe is at the very end of the code in the file.

For anyone else that wants to test downloads, I will update my findings, but it's rather easy to do, (clear cookies) follow your own link, download the software, then open the exe with a text editer (notepad works but will occassionally crash with larger exe's) and search for the btag.

(Playtechs will not only show the affid but also the profile)

I have actually wrote about this many times here at the GPWA, I'll update everyone of my findings.

Rick
Universal

[universal4]

John,

So far my testing shows that Rivals DO in fact embed the affiliate tag in the exe when it is downloaded.

I have tested ony a few so far, but ThisIsVegas is one of the first ones I did and it passed that test.

I will likely creat a thread elsewhere with my findings so I don't keep stepping on CasinoKing's thread.

CasinoKing, if you'd want, drop me a pm so I may test the casino in question for you. I can provide you with those details private although I plan on testing them all anyway.

Rick
Universal4

Casin

Rick
Universal4

[thisisvegas]

Thanks Rick, I've learned something new about my software. I probably should know this but I have other requests to the tech department and didn't want to hit them up for this until they had some free time.

I think Jason was first to contact tech support regarding this issue but in order to verify anything we still need to know the casino in question and given some of the links.

[thisisvegas]

KasinoKing: I checked your website and there was only one casino I could find in the new format you first explained about. First of all on your website you have 17 Rival casinos listed and all of them share the same format:
http://www.rival-casino.com/get/a?id=12345

I did find a ClubUSAcasino link that was in the format you described at the start. Maybe you are confusing clubusacasino (RTG) with clubvegasusa (Rival).
Here is the link for clubusacasino which follows the format you explained that now works:
http://www.other-casino.com/?affid=1...234&gAid=12345
(note: I have changed the numbers around but it's the same format)

You did state earlier that the casino provided you with a new tracking which does work. You said the following:

"c) The new link they gave me was in the format hxxxp :// www .RivalCasino.com/index.php?curency=GBP&id=123456 and definitely does work. Since I changed it I had a further 20 clicks, and 6 registrations were recorded in the normal way – this is about the minimum conversion rate I would normally expect."

Rival technical support have already told me Rival doesn't support these formats and I never have seen this myself with any Rivals. None of the Rival casinos on your site have that format which you said now works perfectly. All of the RTG casinos seem to have that format you explained. I noticed you promote both Clubusacasino and clubvegasusa so maybe this is a mixup?

This is a serious allegation and I'd like to get it sorted as soon as possible. This is one casino but I don't understand why you are painting all Rivals with the same brush and to me this doesn't look like it is even a Rival casino in question. If it has taken 3 weeks for your AM to get this far I can get you an answer in 24 hours. Just send me a PM or email. I don't even need confidential info, just the casino in question, I'll pass it onto Rival and they will take care of the rest. Please double check this is indeed a Rival casino we are dealing with. If you really think this is a serious issue then you would want it handled asap since you have 17 Rival casinos listed on your site.

John

[KasinoKing]

You did state earlier that the casino provided you with a new tracking which does work. You said the following:

"c) The new link they gave me was in the format hxxxp :// www .RivalCasino.com/index.php?curency=GBP&id=123456 and definitely does work. Since I changed it I had a further 20 clicks, and 6 registrations were recorded in the normal way – this is about the minimum conversion rate I would normally expect."

It is definitely a Rival casino - but the link is not on my website. (I never said it was).

Why do you think you can cure this in 24 hours when the casinos own manager hasn't achieved anything in 3 weeks?
Do you think he is lying to me & that he hasn't even contacted Rival at all?
Or do you think Rival are aware but don't give a toss because it does not effect their bottom line?

Who do you work for now - TIV, or Rival themselves?
I just want to be 100% clear on that before I give any further information.

Once again I do really appreciate your offer of help, and I trust you can understand why I am asking these questions.
KK

[thisisvegas]

I am still doing management and consulting for thisisvegas as it's going to take a few months for the transition period to help Liane take over the jobs. Regardless this is irrelevant as I have offered to help. Either call out the casino in public rather than calling out Rival or just quickly send me a pm or email telling me the casino. I'll pass it onto Rival and can get back to you.

Regarding the link not being on your site, you have all the Rivals promoted and none of them have the new format. I have never seen a Rival link that looks like anything you have mentioned.

John

[KasinoKing]

Regarding the link not being on your site, you have all the Rivals promoted and none of them have the new format. I have never seen a Rival link that looks like anything you have mentioned.

John

That's right - I never said any of them did.

What I don't understand is why you keep going on about this 'special format' link - that one works fine and is totally irrelevant to my issue...

It's a 'normal' link - exactly the same format which all Rivals use - that does not work.

With all due respect, have you even read all of my opening post?
Because with the questions you're asking it doesn't seem like you have.

If you work so closely with Rival - why don't you ask THEM which casino it is?
They must know - they have apparently been looking at this issue for 3 weeks.

But once again, one of the main reasons I'm not naming them yet is because that is also totally irrelevant.
ALL Rival casinos use the exact same format tracking links - so why should anyone expect this problem to only effect this one casino?
If it happened at one casino, surely it's logical it could effect any Rival casino...

Cheers,
KK

[thisisvegas]

Well maybe the thread title to be changed to something that reflects on the casino rather than Rival.

Again if you want my help all you have to do is email me or call out the casino in question. Otherwise I don't think it's fair to call out all of Rival. If you want help all it takes is a quick email.

Cheers,

John

[KasinoKing]

<Deleted>
I give up.

[kwblue]

KK - John is trying pretty hard to help you here. I think if you PM him you will find out he is VERY helpful. He is one of the best AM's in the business and will get to the bottom of this if you let him.

A PM should be fine and while I understand you don't want to 'name and shame', John is the kind of person that would keep the details to himself and get your problem to the RIGHT people (and fast).

He is someone you can trust.