Thanks bet365!

[thebookiesoffers]

You may not purchase or register keywords, search terms or other identifiers for use in any search engine, portal, sponsored advertising service or other search or referral service and which are identical or similar to any of bet365's trade marks or otherwise include the word "bet365", “bet365poker”, “bet365casino” or variations thereof, or include metatag keywords on the Partner Site which are identical or similar to any of bet365’s trade marks.

I'm sure it could be read many ways, but I remember a few years ago Bet365 making a big deal about webmasters targeting bet365-related searches.

I guess "bet365 free bet review" is fine, but number of people searching for that term, compared to just "free bets", is miniscule.

that basically says you can't compete in PPC for bet365 or use bet365 in a domain name

[RacingJim]

that basically says you can't compete in PPC for bet365 or use bet365 in a domain name

Agree with this, the start of the term is "You may not purchase or register", so as you said, PPC or domain names with Bet365 in them.

[xecutable]

Such a derail of the thread. I'd like to also congratulate them on the excellent work they have done over the years. I used to work with Adam, and was very satisfied, now with Edward also satisfied.

I too rarely see a negative month, perhaps once a year. In terms of conversion, affiliate request response time, and player retention, this will always be one of the best books. Sure there are things that can be improved or polished, but what book is perfect?

I would really like to know what # of players the people complaining about the nco, have.

I know someone from this forum, that I talk to. He was in the 4-5 negative digits, he managed to negotiate a flat fee for a few months just so promoting was worth it. Around Christmas last year, one night he messaged me with "hooooolllyyy sh****t" his negative was a +6000. It's not uncommon for big winners to return everything and more.

[ogpaper]

He was in the 4-5 negative digits, he managed to negotiate a flat fee for a few months just so promoting was worth it. Around Christmas last year, one night he messaged me with "hooooolllyyy sh****t" his negative was a +6000.

Exactly. Now imagine that you are in the same situation, BUT you are unable to negotiate a flat fee. Would promoting be worth it?

People just talk without even thinking on this forum...

[-Shay-]

I think the two main points on that post are as follows:

1. If you and your affiliate manager establish and maintain a dialogue on a regular basis, there is flexibility in how (or if) you can be compensated whilst digging out of the hole.

2. A big negative swing is not necessarily an insurmountable hole.

[ogpaper]

While I am all for free speech - most posters have no idea what they are talking about (and I don't mean you Shay).

The problem of the NCO is worsened by the way Bet365 limits winning players, a recent example could be found here: link but more could be seen if you simply search google for "limited on Bet365" or variations of it. If Bet365 limits a winning player that happens to be tracked to your account - you are screwed, since the punter will likely just withdraw the money and go play somewhere else and you'd be left with a finger up the bum

I'm also quite sure that most of the posters here had no idea that Bet365 can lower their commission at any time, even completely close your account, solely at their discretion - http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/for...ory-t4301.html In other words - your players are not yours for life, as it is customary with almost all other programs.

Bet365 is a good program (mostly thanks to the staff that works there), but nowhere near "great". We need to work together and always demand better terms and conditions for us, as affiliates.

[GCG]

Ogpaper, you have spotted the flaws of Bet 365 and hit the nail on the head with your experience.

[blendtec]

"We reserve the right to reduce Referral Commission percentages if you reduce your efforts to recruit new Customers. Your reduced or suspended promotion of our sites will be deemed to represent your termination of this Agreement."

Oh noes!

I wonder if this means, maintain a few banners/links on your sites > if traffic reduces > speak with understanding AM who you have built a relationship with and isn't thinking of how he can terminate your account.

You make it sound like bet365 is a machine being run by people who have ill intentions which is absolute nonsense. The people that I have spoken to who work there are honest, friendly, family oriented people who understand affiliates and their needs.

As for the limiting, i'm sure it does happen but from my own experience and having a customer account that is +£xx,xxx in 24 months, that regularly has mid-high £xxx bets placed, I have never had a problem placing a bet - sometimes it will say "the remaining stake will be referred to a trader" and they will always take my bets - compared with other books who have limited me in a period of 72 hours, I believe bet365 will actually lay bets even to people who have a positive account over a long period. Not saying I don't trust the stories about limiting, some just seem a little sketchy.

As for NCO, I understand it can be a problem for some affiliates and imo, mostly affiliates with small player bases but they didn't mystically add this term after you started referring customers - Sure it'd be nice if they wanted to be very reasonable in this case but they don't have to be, you ticked the box saying you agree with their terms.

While I am all for free speech - most posters have no idea what they are talking about (and I don't mean you Shay).

The problem of the NCO is worsened by the way Bet365 limits winning players, a recent example could be found here: link but more could be seen if you simply search google for "limited on Bet365" or variations of it. If Bet365 limits a winning player that happens to be tracked to your account - you are screwed, since the punter will likely just withdraw the money and go play somewhere else and you'd be left with a finger up the bum

I'm also quite sure that most of the posters here had no idea that Bet365 can lower their commission at any time, even completely close your account, solely at their discretion - http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/for...ory-t4301.html In other words - your players are not yours for life, as it is customary with almost all other programs.

Bet365 is a good program (mostly thanks to the staff that works there), but nowhere near "great". We need to work together and always demand better terms and conditions for us, as affiliates.

[ogpaper]

You make it sound like bet365 is a machine being run by people who have ill intentions which is absolute nonsense. The people that I have spoken to who work there are honest, friendly, family oriented people who understand affiliates and their needs.

No one is disputing this, I am sure they are all great guys and gals. But they are not the ones making the big decisions. If upper management says "jump" - they "jump", if they say trim the less active accounts - they have no other choice but to do it, no matter how much they like you.
The simple fact that this is part of the T&C means that the possibility has been discussed by upper management and a decision has been made that at some point in time the clause could be used.

As for the limiting, i'm sure it does happen but from my own experience and having a customer account that is +£xx,xxx in 24 months, that regularly has mid-high £xxx bets placed, I have never had a problem placing a bet - sometimes it will say "the remaining stake will be referred to a trader" and they will always take my bets - compared with other books who have limited me in a period of 72 hours, I believe bet365 will actually lay bets even to people who have a positive account over a long period. Not saying I don't trust the stories about limiting, some just seem a little sketchy.

I appreciate your enthusiasm.
Being positive 10K over 2 years is chump change, my friend. With some other programs I have bettors who place multiple $5K bets per day. Can you imagine if a player like that goes on a winning streak and gets limited with NCO?!? Bettors of this caliber will most likely lose the winnings eventually (and then some), but it won't happen if they are limited to 5 pounds per bet, now, would it? Do you think I would intentionally send a bettor like that to Bet365???

but they didn't mystically add this term after you started referring customers - Sure it'd be nice if they wanted to be very reasonable in this case but they don't have to be, you ticked the box saying you agree with their terms.

True. But that doesn't mean they cannot change their T&C to remove the NCO. They won't do it if affiliates are happy with NCO, however...

P.S. I understand that this thread has gone way off course, but it's still a good discussion. Maybe a Mod can split it to a new one?

[blendtec]

No one is disputing this, I am sure they are all great guys and gals. But they are not the ones making the big decisions. If upper management says "jump" - they "jump", if they say trim the less active accounts - they have no other choice but to do it, no matter how much they like you.
The simple fact that this is part of the T&C means that the possibility has been discussed by upper management and a decision has been made that at some point in time the clause could be used.

Do you think this term has been used against any affiliate in all of bet365's history? The only part affiliates should worry about is reduced commission and even then, there has to be reason - and if you were really worried i'm sure you can think of some very simple ways to prove that you haven't reduced or suspended your promotional efforts.

I don't think a company that is built on honesty, integrity and focuses on growth is going to lie to affiliates and close accounts.

I appreciate your enthusiasm.
Being positive 10K over 2 years is chump change, my friend. With some other programs I have bettors who place multiple $5K bets per day. Can you imagine if a player like that goes on a winning streak and gets limited with NCO?!? Bettors of this caliber will most likely lose the winnings eventually (and then some), but it won't happen if they are limited to 5 pounds per bet, now, would it? Do you think I would intentionally send a bettor like that to Bet365???

£10k is pennies but I was referring to those who claim bet365 limited their accounts betting small stakes and winning smaller amounts.

I'd like to know where you send people who will happily lay $5k bets right off the bat? I'd like to think anyone who bets relatively high stakes would choose to bet at an exchange where they have the ability to manage and monitor their liability. I wish I had a few mindless punters like this in my player base.

I'd like to think if this actually did happen, you would be notified / the player would be removed / moved to a separate account but i'm a little skeptical about the whole thing.

True. But that doesn't mean they cannot change their T&C to remove the NCO. They won't do it if affiliates are happy with NCO, however...

P.S. I understand that this thread has gone way off course, but it's still a good discussion. Maybe a Mod can split it to a new one?

Sure - I have no problem with NCO personally but I wouldn't mind if they didn't have it - I may throw my toys out of the pram if someone wins £100k but I haven't had any real issues with it so far.

There is probably some fair median with regards to NCO.

[ogpaper]

Do you think this term has been used against any affiliate in all of bet365's history?

The real question is - what's the guarantee that it won't be used? Clearly in some cases they are prepared to use it, otherwise they would simply remove the term, which is as predatory towards affiliates as they come.
It amazes me how you can risk losing your entire player base and income on a whim and be happy with it. If they had at least some guidelines, like number of players a month or something, before they enact the rule, but no - it's completely arbitrary.

As far as talking your way out of it - as I already mentioned, I've tried getting help before and was met with a stonewall. Maybe I just had the bad luck to land a bad manager, but it remains a fact that they were unwilling to "work with me".

I wish I had a few mindless punters like this in my player base.

You might have. Bet365 is the only affiliate program which does not allow individual player tracking and the larger your player base - less chance you have to figure out if you had a whale, if the whale was removed, how, why it was removed, etc.
I personally find player value to be extremely low, compared to other sports betting programs; this could be because of player limits.

At the end of the day - I have not read a statement by a Bet365 representative disputing player limiting, while there are hundreds of cases of people complaining that they are being limited, especially after big wins.

[universal4]

The real question is - what's the guarantee that it won't be used? Clearly in some cases they are prepared to use it, otherwise they would simply remove the term, which is as predatory towards affiliates as they come.

I think this is a very important point.

Rick
Universal4