Theft?

**Anonymous** · 24 April 2002, 2:51 pm

Edit - This situation was corrected by Captain Cook's in May.

Well,I got a letter from Captain Cooks today that is making me mad,and I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

The Captain Cooks Casino uses a cookie based tracking system. When a player visits the Captain Cooks Casino site as a result of clicking on your banner (or other link with your btag),a cookie with your btag will be written to the players PC. The current "lifetime" of this cookie is infinite.

If the player subsequently decides not to download,but then does so at a later date you will still be credited with that player (provided they have not flushed their cache). This remains true even if the player returned to the Captain Cooks Casino site as a result of clicking through via a Captain Cooks Casino paid-for advertising link or another affiliate banner.

The issue concerned is one of covert cookie tagging -eg web site "X" loads Captain Cooks Casino in a frame virtually invisible to the visitor. The visitor is then 'cookied' with web site X's tag,even though they've never deliberately visited the CCC site. Effectively web site "X" have grabbed the player and marked them with their btag and that player then "belongs" to them - even though the player might finally visit CCC voluntarily as a result of someone else's (CCC or
another affiliate's) advertising.

Where we want your input is

1) On the use of enforced/hidden pop-up on affiliate web sites (of the type described above)

2) and whether you have issues regarding the lifetime or duration of cookies
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx

Personally,I think the use of these hidden/forced pop ups is criminal. It forces someone elses (captain cooks) cookie into the cache belonging to an ususpecting person. Neither captain cooks (or any other casino this is done to) nor the website visitor has given permission to do this.

It is direct stealing from websites like me,who are spending ungodly hours and huge sums of money to make a go of a business. I am totally outraged about this and will do everything in my power to put an end to it. Talk about unethical!

I am all for the lifetime cookies,but deadset against secretive implanting of same!

What do you think?

--------------
Dominique

www.gamesandcasino.com

**VPJunkie** · 24 April 2002, 3:25 pm

Thank you,Dominique!! We feel the same way! In fact,it's because we confronted Captain Cook's on this issue,that they're sending this letter out to everyone.

It's not the fact that they're using the cookies,but that the cookies are not overwritten when another webmaster sends the player to Captain Cook's.

There are very large affiliates out there,that have been tagging their visitors 'invisibly'. The visitor has NEVER gone to the Captain Cook's site,yet still has been 'cookied' by these unethical and unscrupulous affiliates. Then,no matter who 'makes the sale',the unscrupolous webmaster who used and abused Captain Cook's system of cookies,is the one who gets the credit and the income from that player.

Captain Cook's is a little upset with us at the moment because of this confrontation,but we're urging every webmaster to protest the use of un-overwritable cookies at any casino (and there are a few that use them). Forcing the casinos to give credit to the webmaster who 'makes the sale' will level the playing field for all webmasters,new and old,large and small.

Dominique - how long has your website been online? If 3 months,then please apply for admission to the private forums!!

**arkyt** · 24 April 2002, 4:12 pm

delete

**OnlineCasino-Guide.com** · 24 April 2002, 4:51 pm

You're Exactly Right Dominique!

I've promoted this casino (the legitimate way) for over a year. I've never made any money from them. Also,I've seen posts from sites that are much bigger then mine that also don't make any money from CCC. Now we're finding out why!

I believe we should all STOP promoting the casino until this issue is fixed. In the meantime,go ahead and covertly cookie your visitors if you want,maybe make a few bucks from them for a change!

Dave

**Professor** · 24 April 2002, 10:23 pm

It's been mentioned that the people doing this are larger affiliates,I take it then that these people have been identified? Can we "convince" them that this is not the way to procede and that we collectively are aware its being done and would like to see it stopped?

**VPJunkie** · 24 April 2002, 10:47 pm

We have a couple of them identified,but it's impossible to police this for the casinos. Not to mention,if they don't care that they're screwing us to start with,why would they listen to our requests to stop?

The system needs to be changed.

**Professor** · 24 April 2002, 11:15 pm

While we can't really police things for the casino,if a few people are stealing revenue from other affiliates I think it would be advantageous to know who they are.

I support five kids,a wife and an elderly mother strictly on the income I earn online. I do this by working the system honestly. I maintain over 70 domains,I start work at 6:30 am and hang in there until 11:00 pm most days. I advertise agressively and I have no problem competing on a level playing field with anyone.

I welcome and encourage everyone to push the envelope as far as they can without stealing from fellow webmasters or affiliates. While the casinos can and should set limits (and enforce them) I do not believe it is ok to steal my players with fraudulent tricks.

Theft is not justified simply because it wasn't expressly prohibited. Common sense and courtesy should come into play.

I couldn't visit WalMart and go strolling out with a new video camera because there wasn't a large sign attached to it that says "you may not steal this camera". Why is this any different? I doubt wether a judge would support my argument that Walmart was at fault for not properly defining theft.

I follow your points and want the casinos to do all they can to stop this. I just think that a little peer pressure might help the situation also.

**VPJunkie** · 24 April 2002, 11:21 pm

I couldn't visit WalMart and go strolling out with a new video camera because there wasn't a large sign attached to it that says "you may not steal this camera". Why is this any different?

A WONDERFUL analogy!! It's the best one I've seen yet!

Peer pressure has not worked in the past with the primary perpetrator,when it came to other unethical behavior. It won't work in this instance,either.

**Professor** · 25 April 2002, 5:16 pm

What a hornet's nest this turned out to be!

**Dominique** · 25 April 2002, 7:25 pm

I think we do have resources to put pressure on the culprits - such as remove all our links to them. Even the biggies will not like it if nobody links to them.

Personally,I would very much like to know who is doing it. Maybe you can email it to me if you don't want to post it publicly. If nobody tells me then I have to assume all the extra large sites are doing it and that would likely not be fair. Also,who else has such cookies? Everyone is mad at CCC but there are others like it? Why is nobody talking to them?

I had replied to CCC and then decided to add something a day or two later,so I fired off a second reply and got an answer back from ispy that the message to Peter was undeliverable. What's up with that? Did they get too many irate emails?

The professor made a comment elsewhere that gator,hotbar,morpheus and others are doing the same. If that is so,then this is a lost cause. The only thing left to do is to try to pressure all the casinos who use these cookies to stop using them.

Unfortunately Games and Casino has only been online for 2 months. I'll apply when the three months are full.

**deaning** · 23 July 2002, 11:01 am

Prof...I have admired you from way back.
So, here ends the kissy ass.

Keep Mom, she will still make sangers (sandwiches) no matter what. Get rid of the kids ASAP as thet will just tie up valuable online time.

You can then get up at 10am, work until 4pm, and go out and have a social life. This is important.

Why? There are a ton of fun people out there, hell you may even meet some without hangups! They may even accept your gambling habits!

Go for it!

Maybre I will take my own advice someday....

**Professor** · 24 July 2002, 11:02 am

Thanks for the advice deaning.

Mom does make a mean Grilled Cheese sandwhich!

The kids refuse to leave, I tried dropping them at the mall but they always turn up again several hours later!

I am not allowed a social life (or much else) as I am married. Wife has forbidden all forms of recreation and insists I work a minimum of 12 hours per day. Good news is she considers my Gambling work and allows for a few hours of poker or slots each week as long as she can spend the winnings.

Ive thought of running away and can have my bags packed and ready if you can swing by and pick me up. (Watch out for my wife, shes armed and dangerous)

:LOL:

**deaning** · 25 July 2002, 12:16 pm

Main chief perp of the cookie issue is (perpetrator):
casinoprophet.com

By my guesstimation dear old profit has cookied in excess of a million visitors covertly.

He was also pulling the same stunt with most RB casinos and RB vow and declare this is not the case with their cookies.

Lasseters also use a lifetime cookie and some members are promoting them. As the closest (they are an Oz casino, land based,) I brought it to their attention. They are "looking into it".

I suspect profit is still using covert encoded scripts...Croups will be able to decode this from his popup on the main page:

HERE IS HIS MAIN PAGE... anything unusual here Croups?

Uh huh.

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