Please be cautious with BetRebels: not paying earnings, refusing to communicate

[dirk20]

Hi there,
it seems like there's no thread yet discussing the BetRebels affiliate program. Unfortunately, I have trouble with them, so I first raised a complaint on the AskGamblers website ( https://www.askgamblers.com/affiliat...o-pay-earnings ).

I will quote the complaint here in order to describe the issue:
I've been in contact with BetRebels in June in order to withdraw my balance of 217.13 Euro in the affiliate account, including all revenue share until end of May. Unfortunately, communication ended with their denying to pay my earnings without giving reasonable explanations. I tried to reach them again but suddenly, they keep ignoring my emails.
217.13 Euro might not be that much of accumulated money, indeed, but I just cannot see why should I give this away!? I saved a copy of their terms and conditions and tried to find any paragraph justifying this, seems like there's nothing ...

Well, they did not address the complaint as you can see. Even weirder, someone called Olga C. from BetRebels contacted me on July 11th in order to talk about promoting their brand again, indicating she had no clue about the ongoing troubles. Of course, I told her immediately, such a proposal doesn't really make sense if I don't get paid. Since then, total silence again.

So, BetRebels also seems to be pretty badly organized on top on not paying. That's nice. If you have any ideas, please tell me. In any case, just wanted to warn against a cooperation.

[matthewt]

They need you to generate some depositing players, so they can come up with capital to pay you what they owe, right? They don't want to tell you, 'cause it is not good business practice.

I would give them more exposure for a month, before removing their links. If they don't pay after that, just move on and take the hit.

[dirk20]

Hi there,
I'm afraid, the problem is even more complicated. On June 20th, cs@betrebels.com wrote to me in reply to my withdrawal request:
"Thank you for contacting us.

Kindly note that you cannot withdraw from the affiliate account directly. All you need to do is create a player's account under your affiliate page (clicking on our banner at your webpage) and let us know which username you will be using.

Then, you can ask the withdrawal through this account."

So, back then, they were still willing to pay, sounds good. Except that a I cannot access my player account, the login stored in my password safe doesn't work and the password forgotten function claims that the appropriate account doesn't exist. That's weird but first I thought, this due to the fact that BetRebels launched a new website for their clients sometime ago and I registered on the old website. Fine, so I tried to register a new account, guess what happens? It's literally not possible, different errors occur like email already exists in the system. Which means, my old account is still known at BetRebels, though I cannot access it. Okay, I tried to use a different email address in order to by-pass the problem - no chance, their system still seems to recognize me due to the combination of name and date of birth, I guess. So, no way to register a new account without providing false personal information and also no way to access the existing player account.

I contacted BetRebels again but then, they seem to have decided, it's easier to get rid of me instead of solving their technical issues somehow!?
As you can see, advertising them again cannot be an option at the moment. They need to enable their withdrawals process again for me, otherwise all future earnings would be in vain, anyway.
I would also be perfectly fine with writing an invoice to them first, so BetRebels could send the payment directly to my business banking account where it needs to go anyway. But they are just denying communication ...

[Cash Bonus]

Hi Dirk, have you tried a different approach like talking to them on Skype?

This is there Skype address: live:betrebels.affiliates

You might be able to get a hold of an affiliate manager this way who will personally look into this issue for you. I know from personal experience.

Good luck.

[dirk20]

Thanks. Olga responded via Skype and said she's waiting for the management to be back in the office in order to look into this issue.
Weird that emails to different addresses get ignored for many weeks and all of a sudden, at least someone is alive again ...

[dirk20]

Hi guys, this was a bit optimistic, I guess. 8 days have passed by since my last post.
Since then, guess what has happened? ............................ Absolutely nothing.
No email from BetRebels, no Skype message, and - of course - no payment.

This is their message on Skype from July, 18th: "Please understand, there is no way I can answer your question until Management comes back from the Conference, neither CS can do that. As soon as they reach the office, we will reply to your email."

Last sign of life. So, what does it mean, is it still lousy management?

[Former Member 14]

I would give them more exposure for a month, before removing their links. If they don't pay after that, just move on and take the hit.

Surely you say this in jest.
No one in their right mind would seriously suggest to continue to promote a program who is, well, this incompetent.

@dirk20 - Honestly, if they haven't paid you yet, and with all the incompetence you've posted, I highly doubt they'll pay you.

I'd mark this down to experience. Just forget about it and move on.

Posting warnings to other affiliate forums might be time better spent, than continuing these follow ups with these clowns

[dirk20]

@AussieDave: You're right, I have little hope, the amount wasn't so big either. Just wanted to point out to others, they might be trouble.

[matthewt]

Surely you say this in jest.
No one in their right mind would seriously suggest to continue to promote a program who is, well, this incompetent.

@dirk20 - Honestly, if they haven't paid you yet, and with all the incompetence you've posted, I highly doubt they'll pay you.

Yes! I have done that too. I say give them more exposure, "cause a good paying program does not come easy. Sometimes you have to give more, to get. They might not pay now, but you could see indirect increase in commissions 1 to 5 years down the line, when someone remembers you as someone who gave effort (1 more month at the top, after you compained) to make a business relationship work.

[BetRebels Team]

Dear Dirk,

Thank you for sharing your experience with BetRebels.
We highly appreciate the feedback from our partners and players.

As the complaint was explained to you personally, then discussed and closed on askgamblers, will explain it here one more time so that we could be clear and sound on this subject.

On February 13th, 2017 - you sent an email to BetRebels stating that you have closed your websites and consequently, you will no longer promote any brands.
At that point you have been paid all the commissions.
Since the date your website got closed, your activity with us ended as well.
Once you closed your resource there was no way for new players to come from your side.
We have sent you the screenshot of your account results until the moment you reported this situation.
There you can clearly see that the last results from you were in 2017, as already mentioned.
And for the period you promoted the brand you received the commissions.

Please be informed that "life-time" - stands for the time period you promote the brand.


Best Regards,
BetRebels Team

[Triple7]

Please be informed that "life-time" - stands for the time period you promote the brand.

Lifetime is related to player activity not to webmaster activity. This is a nonsense argument to not pay out. In case it's about webmaster activity, this should be clearly mentioned in the terms.

[Roulette Zeitung]

"Lifetime is related to player activity not to webmaster activity. This is a nonsense argument to not pay out. In case it's about webmaster activity, this should be clearly mentioned in the terms."

Right.

They also cannot pay, because this is one of those financial lightweight casinos, with a thin financial budget.
Players are permitted to win more than €10,000.00 a day!
No, I am not joking!
What kind of casino is this?

And what happens, if one hits a huge jackpot or a high roller bets 100€ on a number and the same amount on the two neighbors left and right in the wheel, hits three times in a row and is already 9,000+€ in profit after 3 spins?

The player has now to finish his game immediately or he will be declared being a "cheater"?!

Yes, because I guess, they feel free to confiscate winnings from big winners, claiming, they are "violating" this player rule:

"2. Participation in the BetRebels Casino, Games and Live Casino

[...]

2.11 The maximum net winnings permitted in one day are €10,000.00 including the sum of winnings obtained on different products"

Source: https://web.betrebels.com/casino/terms-conditions

And this is also a disservice for the webmaster, because if a player is hot, winning 10,000€ and has to stop, the odds, that he will lose it all again in another session, are proven lower, after he was forced to sleep a night, can calm down and can think about to cash out or lower the bets after that lucky streak instead of moving on with the same style.

Both, lack of intelligence and a thin financial budget with an insane winning limit makes BetRebels to what they are:

A flop.

Leopold

[dirk20]

Lifetime is related to player activity not to webmaster activity. This is a nonsense argument to not pay out. In case it's about webmaster activity, this should be clearly mentioned in the terms.

Indeed, this seems to be obvious to me. I asked BetRebels 100times which part of their T&Cs covers this action. Of course, they refused to show this to me - because there isn't anything.
Even if you were to define "lifetime" related to the webmaster's activity (different than basically all other affiliates), then you would need to define _precisely_ when "webmaster's activity" ends - beforehand and also not after recent earnings were already paid onto your affiliate account ...

AskGamblers did a very bad job in this case, by the way. I guess they must be somehow personal friends with BetRebels or so, very weird. See this suspicious testimonial here: https://www.affiliatesrebels.com/testimonials.html
The current state is that AskGamblers labelled my complaint as "resolved" - which is insane to say the least. Furthermore, they disallow me to post any statement or continue the discussion, I've never seen them so far away from being neutral, which they obviously should be in their role.

[FSB]

Many affiliate programs offer life-time commission from a registered player, but later the reality becomes more brutal. From my experience, it looks like this:
- programs change a percentage of commission after some time (without notifying partners)
- add new terms to the contract (min, 5 FTD per month, at least 1000 EUR income per month, etc., so that the commission is payable)
- if it is a high roller, often also transfer his account to VIP depriving the commission
- close partner accounts if you do not generate an adequate income or fail to bring in a certain number of new players in the period
- adding more administrative costs and taxes (often without informing).
- they do not transfer "valuable" players when they migrate to the new affiliate system


There are more sins, but these are only my observations so far, so it is worth being vigilant.


Btw, any change to the provisions of a previously concluded contract should be mutually approved to implement them. Alternatively, each party may terminate the contract, subject to the terms of this termination and respect for the law.

[Cash Bonus]

Dirk, I'm sorry to hear that. Have you tried reaching out to someone else? Maybe GPWA can help you with this issue.

[dirk20]

@FSB: Thanks for your thoughts. One of the biggest issues with BetRebels seems to be that their T&Cs are too short in order to cover anything important like this. Furthermore, my contact person at BetRebels' actually claims that certain things are just valid if they just say so without any note in the T&Cs. Which makes me wonder why writing them in the first place ...

Dirk, I'm sorry to hear that. Have you tried reaching out to someone else? Maybe GPWA can help you with this issue.

AskGamblers doesn't want to help but protect BetRebels instead, that's for sure. Unfortunately(?), it's just 217.13 Euro they owe me, so not really worth a big investment of time. The basic idea of this thread was to reveal their business attitude and practices, so others are warned.
Still, worth noting that BetRebels prefers bad publicity over paying ~200 Euro, so Leopold certainly has a point in stating their thin financial budget!?

[Triple7]

Ask Gamblers is a commercial website with commercial interests ran by a company that is doing lead generation (their own words). Their stakeholders are interested in #FTD and € revenue, not in # of complaints resolved, etc. Those complaints thing, also for players, is a means to an end.

[BetRebels Team]

Dear Dirk,

Thank you for sharing your experience with BetRebels Affiliate Program.
Each of our steps towards your activity was proven by screenshots that according to the T&C we cannot post on this forum.
However, you received them all by email.
What the term "lifetime" means you knew when you started your partnership with us.
And according to our T&C you have been informed, that once you stop promoting our brand (and in this case you closed your website), your partnership with us ends.

BetRebels is committed to mutual respect, correct and professional attitude and responsible behavior.
The complaint on AskGamblers was closed because we provided the necessary information that demonstrated we are right.
Otherwise, the complaint would not have been closed.
Please also be informed, that each of the Affiliates who works with us has the right to post his testimonials on our website.
You can see this by checking the corresponding Section.

We hope we answered to all your questions.

Best Regards,
BetRebels Team

[dirk20]

What the term "lifetime" means you knew when you started your partnership with us.

Bullshit. I didn't and I doubt any other affiliate does.

And according to our T&C you have been informed, that once you stop promoting our brand (and in this case you closed your website), your partnership with us ends.

Bullshit. I asked 100times to quote the part from your T&Cs handling this, still, until now you're denying to do so.

But I found this interesting quote in your T&Cs under 07.c.:

You shall be entitled to receive Commission on Your Players for their lifetime value, effective from their first deposit, except in the event that The Agreement is terminated for whatever reason.

See https://www.affiliatesrebels.com/ter...onditions.html - so your own terms don't even backup this weird "lifetime" doesn't refer to the player lie you pulled earlier.

The complaint on AskGamblers was closed because we provided the necessary information that demonstrated we are right.
Otherwise, the complaint would not have been closed.

Bullshit. Everybody in this board can read about this: https://www.askgamblers.com/affiliat...o-pay-earnings
The last post states nothing more that you executed your "right" to close anybody's affiliate account whenever you like without reason, nothing more. I asked you afterwards, how could this possibly effect the accumulated and stated earnings before the closure of my affiliate account.
But since BetRebels runs a scam business, you refused to answer this question.

[LeeGwilliam]

Many affiliate programs offer life-time commission from a registered player, but later the reality becomes more brutal. From my experience, it looks like this:
- programs change a percentage of commission after some time (without notifying partners)
- add new terms to the contract (min, 5 FTD per month, at least 1000 EUR income per month, etc., so that the commission is payable)
- if it is a high roller, often also transfer his account to VIP depriving the commission
- close partner accounts if you do not generate an adequate income or fail to bring in a certain number of new players in the period
- adding more administrative costs and taxes (often without informing).
- they do not transfer "valuable" players when they migrate to the new affiliate system

There are more sins, but these are only my observations so far, so it is worth being vigilant.

Btw, any change to the provisions of a previously concluded contract should be mutually approved to implement them. Alternatively, each party may terminate the contract, subject to the terms of this termination and respect for the law.

Whilst affiliates have:

1. Business 'contracts' dictated upon signup to the casino programs rather than negotiating and agreeing own terms (Most affiliates do not negotiate custom terms).
2. No 'true' tracking of data between the operator and affiliate (Most affiliates have 3rd party access right now with NetRefer / IA etc)
3. No one prepared to actually challenge these 'terms' in court.

Then this will not change.

It's only affiliates with super high levels of internal tech who can properly track and catch programs who are messing with them that are truly able to see to an effective level who is operating properly and who is not. There's a caveat here too, in a large business, even if a program is behaving shady, if the RPC/EPC with that program is higher than one behaving fairly - it's likely to still be promoted.

At the other end - Super affiliates where quite frankly, operators just can't really afford to alienate them because the long term loss of business would be hugely detrimental, don't suffer this quite so often.

It's a shame about BetRebels, met a few guys from there a couple of years ago, came to our offices in Malta, seemed decent. Not sure if it's changed hands/staff since or just gone rogue out of choice, either way highly disappointing. Not a big loss to most though, it was hardly an effective product in almost any GEO, much better options out there performance wise.