Welcome 10Bet Affiliates as a new GPWA Silver sponsor!

[Brokkoli]

We had this 5 player problem in the early days, even stopped promoting them for a while for the same reason. But then they made an exception from this rule and we pushed them harder. And we are happy with them ever since. So I can confirm they are indeed flexible.

Every affiliate can choose which program he wants to work with. We decided to work with 10bet as they are one of the top programs, strong brand, great products, great manager.

My advice to small affiliates is -as with any other programs- to talk to your manager. Share your concerns and listen to theirs. Find a voice. At the end of the day both sides want to make the business happen.

[10Bet Affiliates]

Hi guys,

That is "probably" the intention of the term but the letter of the law could give them the right to reduce if you do something as small as no longer placing their banners within a weekly picks article that you decided to test them out on.

No, my dear friend! It refers mostly to what thebookiesoffers assumed- if a deal for certain exposure has been agreed, which no longer takes place at present, the rev share percentage might get reduced- which is a completely fair flow of the events, or the percentage of the rev share might be decreased due to long period of inactivity of the affiliate account. In both cases the decrease is never below the default affiliate rev share commission of 25%.

Hello Elina,


you can only win, will not earn less one cent, can play a pioneering role in the industry, because I am fed up to the back teeth of fine words from some narrow-minded programs.

As long as webmasters are de facto and de jure outlawed in the industry, pushed increasingly more and more into the role of supplicants, as long terms should be more an encouragement than another blow.

Leopold

Affiliates who work with us closely know our professionalism and care to the tiniest detail and enjoy great partnership with us for the long run, however a better outlook of the terms presented to the newcomers might really be considered, but as I’ve already mentioned: some of the terms are being in place to simply prevent fraudulent activities. Anyone who works with my team and me could support my words.

Thanks again for your comments and feedback, guys! Much appreciated

[10Bet Affiliates]

Reply to Asim's post from January, 21st:

Hi Asim,

Thanks for your comments!

Please note that 10Bet Affiliate Terms have been set to ensure that both parties: the affiliate and the bookie get the most out of their mutual business partnership.

It seems like you haven't previously contacted us regarding requesting a payment, so I’d be happy to discuss with you ways of improving our partnership together and make sure that both parties are getting the most out of it

Feel free to PM/ skype/ e-mail me and I’d love to fill you in on how much more we now have to offer!

Kind Regards,

[Roulette Zeitung]

"I’ve already mentioned: some of the terms are being in place to simply prevent fraudulent activities."

The 1st time it was a "benefit", now a fraud protection?

Explain me, how 2.6, 3.6 and 4.6 can be a fraud protection.
Explain it public in this thread please!
With examples!

----------------------

the letter of the law could give them the right to reduce

This is the point. This thread does not only concern 10Bet Affiliates ... the whole industry.

If you open a website and put some banners on it, then you are not automatically a "businessman". There's more.

Words of law (and terms) are not a traveling circus attitude or a hotchpotch of old boys jokes. I am not talking about criminal activities of some programs, who are stealing the money with more than only terms.

The truth?

Many webmasters are too lazy to read terms, but as soon as it begins to rain, if black water splashes onto the screen and problems reaching for the skies, then there will be a big hue and cry afterwards.



Only one example shows, how a (only) fair-weather program with an excellent reputation (in the past) can change within weeks into a shady honky-tonk:

===> Chipsplit Rogue (Carbon Poker Casino Sports and Aced Poker)

Anybody, who take terms and the risks not seriously, is no businessman but a gambler, a soldier of fortune ...
And every program, that wants to turn (affiliate manager) rhetoric into action, don't need terms for cold days ...

There is no (ethical) reason for it.
No benefit or fraud protection or ........................ nothing!

A backdoor term is a loaded weapon and nothing less.

This logic is simple.
And a fact.
(Some) affiliate managers come and go (to the next company) but terms remain.

Leopold

[Asim]

I will reply to your email later today Elina. I also want to clerify that we have got some payments from 10bet. That was when they started up with a affiliate problem. At that time we had more than 5 active players in a quarter and got paid after requesting it. Afterwards they have refused to pay us, because of the "5 active players last quarter rule".

We have contacted 10bet several times before regarding payments.. last contact was more than one year ago, when we got a big NO for commisson payment because we did not have 5 active depositing players last quarter. As I recall was commision due at that point was over €2000 (now is over €4000!)
Unfortunately I cant find the emails from last conversation with 10Bet. Think I deleted them. But I did find some older conversations :

--- On
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Roy Meckenzie <roy@10bet.com></roy@10bet.com> wrote:
<b id="yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1391081481624_67018">Wed, 8/19/09, Roy Meckenzie <roy@10bet.com> wrote:

From: Roy Meckenzie <roy ...10bet.com="">
Subject: RE: 10Bet Affiliates
To: "bonus tip" <bonustip2004.....yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 7:17 PM



You need to refer 5 depositing customers each quarter to be eligible for revenue share.

---

From: bonus tip [mailto:bonustip2004....yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:09 PM
To: Roy Meckenzie
Subject: Re: 10Bet Affiliates


So bacically youre saying that you have to refer 5 depositing customers each month to get paid??



regards

Asim

From: Roy Meckenzie <roy....10bet.com>
Subject: 10Bet Affiliates
To: bonustip2004....yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 7:04 PM</roy....10bet.com>

You have accomplished 0 successful acquisitions during the last quarter. In order of receiving your monthly revenue share, a minimum of 5 acquisitions should be achieved no later than the 5^th of September.


Kind regards,
Roy MecKenzie

</bonustip2004.....yahoo.com></roy></roy@10bet.com>
As you can see the rule is/was that you in last quarter must have 5 active players to get paid.. We have hundreds of players in our account, but only 2-3 regular players for the last 1-2 years. There are two main reasons for that :

1 : I/we dont like to get forced to promote a site just to get paid every month. There are so many good bookmakers out there, and we try to not to put all eggs in 1 or 2 baskets. We work closely with maybe 8-10 sites, and give them all almost same explosure. Only exception is Bet365 because of the player value there, and because we know they pay us quick every month. When 10bet with the rule mentioned in this post above force us to promote them, we instead look for the secure options that gurentee to pay us of for our hard work each month, no matter if we only have one player or hundreds of players in the affiliate account.

2 : Our core market is Denmark. 10Bet have chosen not have danish license. Therefore we cant promote them on our danish sites withour getting in trouble from the danish autorities. This also makes it almost impossible to get 5 active players each quarter.
This is another reason why quota-rules are so bad. A program can choose tommorow to move out of your core market, or forexsample offering no bonus....Suddenly you will find it very hard to refer new players and quota-rule will kill your affiliate account/payment.</b>

[universal4]

I am waiting for the terms to be written fairly for ALL affiliates (small affiliates included).

If the rule can be overlooked, it doesn't need to be there in writing.

Rick
Universal4

[Anthony]

GPWA displays program attributes on our sponsor profile pages. Like it or not these quotas are throughout various sports books. This information is not being hidden from affiliates. If a program has a quota it will be on the program’s profile page and will be published in the welcome thread. We want to provide the information to enable affiliates to make an informed decision. It is important to read a programs terms and conditions yourself. We know every affiliate is different. Affiliates have to choose who to work with and make business decisions based on their own criteria, not someone else's.

There have been affiliates that chimed in to mention their good working relationship with Elina and 10Bet, still that doesn’t mean it is a perfect fit for everyone. But, just because a program is not a good fit for someone does not mean it is not a good program.

I personally have worked with 10Bet and have found Elina to be helpful and engaging. To quote thebookiesoffers, “just my opinion though”

[Roulette Zeitung]

Hello Anthony,

if this is the case...

then there should be no problem to delete (at least) this unethical, semi-criminal backdoor crap immediatly:

3.6. 10Bet reserves the right to reduce Affiliate commission percentages if the Affiliate reduces efforts to recruit new Acquired Customers. The Affiliate's reduced or suspended promotion of our sites will be deemed to represent termination of this Agreement.

There should be no problem ... or?

Walk the talk!

And please, there is no warning or information about this 3.6. pifall displayed on the "program attributes on" the "sponsor profile pages".

Beeing a GPWA sponsor is no carte blanche. The other new sponsor, Rembrandt Affiliates, shows, that they don't need pitfalls and backdoors for cold days, when not enough money flows into the cashbox.

Can you, dear reader read into the future?
Yes or no?
History repeats.
And if not enough money flows into the cashbox, then terms will be the only language ... over the phone ... via email ... and small webmasters feeling like complete morons ... troublemakers

If a program have fair terms, this must not happen, but with backdoor terms.....................

---

I repeat, Anthony...

If this is the case, what you have written in your last post...

...then there should be no problem to delete (at least) 3.6!

It takes 1 minute!

Because if there is a problem, excuses, yadda yadda or silence then the credibility of this program for me is below Absolute Zero, and this will be reported on the German market in public.

Playing "little games" with terms must be stopped. Otherwise in 5+ years small webmasters will be treated as a criminal.

Any takers for this scenario?

Leopold

[webanalysissolutions]

Roulette Zeitung - I would say give 10bet a go and see where it goes. They're not one of the bad guys in this industry and I'm sure if I looked at your sites I could share a lot of experiences about bad advertisers you're using ahead of these guys.

10Bet are not the biggest brand, I'm sure they'll admit that, but Elina is one of the best affiliate managers out there. She is very helpful, honest, and willing to work with you. She's on the shortlist for best aff manager this year - competing with the big brands out there.

10Bet as a brand actually converts very well for us. It's one of our best converters when we measure clicks to depositor ratios. If you can generate some good players and good turnover then revenue as a percentage of turnover is very good too. To give you an idea of our traffic too - we get 2.5 million visits per month, so i'm saying this based on big numbers, and having promoted all of the major sportsbooks out there for 10 years.

10Bet also have some excellent regular bonuses and promos on offer, which makes promoting them easier than other brands. They also have a good looking website, and one that doesn't mainly appeal to UK customers - they have a strong presence in Europe and Eastern Europe.

In our opinion 10Bet, although have been around a while, are a strong and upcoming brand. Other positives - 30 day cookie. Cookie lengths are something a lot of affiliates overlook, but when you compare to Paddy Power, BoyleSports, Betway (all session cookie), William Hill - 3 day cookie, Ladbrokes (7 day cookie) - last I checked, correct me if I'm wrong, you've got a better chance of converting them. We did some research on session cookie advertisers and it was taking us 7 time the clicks to get a sign up than it did for an advertiser with a 30 day cookie!

The also do cross product earnings, which people like Paddy Power don't do and as far as I know from my experience they're not linked with loads of other casino brands (which other operators are), and who ultimately cross sell your referrals to without paying you commission (I won't name them, but search the forums for dodgy cross product selling).

There's a lot more to complain about in other operators than 10bet! I don't like minimum quotas either, but you do get paid in full once you reach your 5th depositor. It's not that you don't get paid for the first 4 - your revenue is banked and released once you hit the 5th.

You could do a lot worse in this industry working with probably 70% of the other sportsbooks out there. 10bet are one of the good guys.

[universal4]

Although I think we should be discussing terms elsewhere, I do lean a little toward agreeing with Leopold on this.

I agree that he might be promoting some groups I feel are not the best, my guess is that I also promote some groups you don't like and that you likely promote some groups I don't like, but that is part of the nature of the industry as well as the GPWA. Difficult, but we must respect that.

As far as the affiliate manager being considered one of the great ones, that is good to hear (and can help things imensly), BUT unless the affiliate manager makes the decisions on the terms and conditions, then that should not enter into the discussion about the terms themselves.

I hate quotas in order to get paid. (and by the way, money banked with an affiliate program does NOT pay the bills, only money actually PAID to the affiliate is money earned)

If an affiliate only snags 1 depositing player every few months (there are THOUSANDS of small affiliates in this scenario) than affiliate programs with quotas are not exactly attractive to small affiliates, since in this scenario it could take a year to 15 months to earn the first payment.

Just because an affiliate is small and is not able to convert many players every month does NOT mean they aren't working hard or that they deserve less respect than those converting dozens or hundreds.

For many years I have felt that quotas represented an "elitest" attitude and warned affiliate more than 5 years ago that the day would come when many many more affiliates would be getting involved in the quotas discussions...and that has now come to fruition.

I am not saying that just because a group has a quota it immediately makes them bad, but I RARELY join a group that has one, and highly encourage smaller affiliates, as well as newer affiliates to consider joining groups WITHOUT quotas until they are more established as well as understand their traffic numbers and conversions better since in some cases it could be a very long time before they see a return from groups with quotas.

Rick
Universal4

[Maria F]

Welcome to the forum!

[Roulette Zeitung]

If an affiliate only snags 1 depositing player every few months (there are THOUSANDS of small affiliates in this scenario) than affiliate programs with quotas are not exactly attractive to small affiliates, since in this scenario it could take a year to 15 months to earn the first payment.

Now the end of February is near. Weeks are gone and I have read only cheap excuses. This is my last post here in this area for 10Bet Affilates. More in the future in the AGD section.

But the readers should know, that nothing has changed. Today I checked the terms again and all critical terms (2.6, 3.6, 4.6) are still there!

Including predatory term 3.6!

10Bet Affiliates, you have had enough time. I have shown patience, and it takes 5 minutes to correct bad terms, and don't tell me, that you are too busy to invest 5 minutes for the fairness in the industry and to give small affiliates a happy time if they want to work with you.

But ... the result?

Arrogant ignorance for weeks (!) of a partner program is one of the things I love most ... and remain in my memory.

If you only want to hurt small webmasters, then write it public and with big letters on your website!

Then it's at least honestly.

Leopold

[Triple7]

For players they got the same predatory terms as for affiliates and they explain it with the same cheap excuses. Absolutely no-go this!

They're agressive to get players and affiliates in, but once you're having some "difficult" question about their predator behaviour, they're non-responsive.

[Roulette Zeitung]

"For players they got the same predatory terms as for affiliates [...] once you're having some "difficult" question about their predator behaviour, they're non-responsive."

Well, they are no longer GPWA sponsor (https://www.gpwa.org/member/10bet-affiliates), and this is really good for the community.
I don't like programs coming from Bulgaria.
The only experiences I have had with Bulgaria are extensive doping, tortured dancing bears, tortured children in children's homes, casino scams and negative SEO. That is enough for me, no secret and verifiable for everyone.

Leopold