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  1. #1
    lowrisk is offline Private Member
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    Default 888 and Ufilliates - Possibly the worst program ever

    I just wanted to make everybody on here aware of just how shockingly bad 888 and Ufilliates truly are, and to advise people to steer clear of them if they can afford to.

    I should have gone with my gut from the beginning really when I logged in to their appalling back end, and read the details of their appalling commission structure. Or the fact that all products except for sports were negative rolls over. Or, even the fact that I have had three different managers in the short while I have promoted them.

    Most commissions for most products are as low as just 20%, 20% for a company as large as 888.

    Anyway, I have promoted them since about August 2010, and have invested money into their brands and of course, a lot of time too. Well, I made the decision in October 2011 to start promoting 888 games, and their offer at the time was a free £5, with no deposit needed. I managed to build links for the brand, and got it to number one for 888 games free £5 and 888 games £5 free. During December, we got around 200+ sign ups, which I was obviously very happy with.

    I was contacted before Christmas by a guy called Meny, who had just taken over as the manager of 888 games and 888 play. He wanted to do all he could to ensure all new players deposited, and wanted to evaluate where the players were from, and the games they were playing. He drew my attention to the fact that a lot of the players were from Belgium, and asked if I was aware of this. When I checked Google analytics, there wasn’t a large enough amount of Belgian traffic to justify this, so I started suspecting fraud. I immediately put a full block on all Belgian IP address via my .htaccess file.

    On the 26th of December 2011, I received this

    “My name is Liraz and I work for the 888.com Affiliate Operations Team.

    The Affiliate Operations Team constantly reviews not only the work done by our affiliates in order to bring new players to 888.com but also the actions taken by those new players generated by affiliates.

    We have been reviewing the accounts of the new players which you have generated and unfortunately I have to inform you that we have noticed that some of the players you have brought to 888.com are abusing the policy and are in violation of their user agreements and they are suspected in fraudulent activity.

    As you will know Section 5 of the 888.com Affiliate Agreement which governs the relationship between you and 888.com provides us with the right to review all commissions to be paid to you for possible "Fraud" (as such term is defined in the 888.com Affiliate Agreement). The purpose of this letter is to inform you that we are currently undertaking such a review and for a period which will not exceed 180 days we shall withhold all commission otherwise due to you, pending the outcome of our review.

    As soon as we have reached our final conclusions from the review we shall be in touch with you to provide you with an update. We regret that we have seen fit to take this action and we hope to be able to transfer commissions to you shortly.

    Regards”


    At the time, my manage was Itay Barach, and when I questioned him, he told me it was because of a “bonus abuse” and also said

    “The suspension period will allow us to see the performance of other players coming from your affiliate account and decide if they are genuine or not.

    There isn't much you should do on your end. The more players we get from your account in this period the faster we will be able to investigate the nature of your players.”


    The 26th of June 2012 was exactly six months since the start of the six month fraud review, and I have been told that the account can’t be re-opened, but nobody will confirm why it was put in fraud review anyway, and won’t give me any details. I was told I would be paid any outstanding commission, which isn’t massive due to their appalling commission structure; it’s only about $208. I was made to feel they were doing me a favour, and told that I was told to remove all banners, yet I hadn’t, but they would pay me up until today regardless. When I pointed out the above, where I was asked to leave links as they were, nobody could provide proof contradicting this.

    Still nobody will give me an explanation, or any details as to why they took this decision initially, or why they aren’t prepared to go forward. I suspended the 888 games in December as I suspected that was the main centre of the “abuse”.

    As it stands now, I have no confirmation as to why the account was suspended, or why we can’t continue, and also have nothing but fabrications when I query this.

    My advice to anybody would be to not even bother with this program; they have brought me nothing but hassle from the beginning. Also, the fact I have had three different managers in just over a year would suggest they aren’t too great to staff either.

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  3. #2
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    I'd go further and say be very wary of all affiliate programs managed out of Israel. All AMs across all programs know each other and the level of ethics is not on a par with programs elsewhere. I trust willhill now, but look what they had to do to clean up that train wreck.

  4. #3
    thebookiesoffers is offline Former Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbookies View Post
    I'd go further and say be very wary of all affiliate programs managed out of Israel. All AMs across all programs know each other and the level of ethics is not on a par with programs elsewhere. I trust willhill now, but look what they had to do to clean up that train wreck.
    wouldn't agree with that, Ayelet is my affiliate manager at Titan Bet and has a reputation across the industry as one of the best going

  5. #4
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    You don't have to agree with it. From what I have read about Titanbet I would not promote them. That's just me.

  6. #5
    thebookiesoffers is offline Former Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbookies View Post
    You don't have to agree with it. From what I have read about Titanbet I would not promote them. That's just me.
    i take as I find, got a very good manager, payments are on time and on a decent commission. can't argue with that

  7. #6
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    That's fair enough and I am glad they are doing well for you. I am not going to slate them when I don't know much about them personally. I was a europartners affiliate for a brief while a long time ago and the software did not work then. Actually if I recall it was the same awful cpays backend that willhill still uses. That was a worry for me in itself. Affiliate guard dog has some negative stuff too about them so I kind of felt it confirmed my poor experience. You are right to make up your own mind about these programs. What works for you is what matters. I am just cautious having had some bad experiences with other programs closing, not paying, messing about etc. Would rather send players to programs I trust entirely rather than any I have the slightest question mark about.

  8. #7
    lowrisk is offline Private Member
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    888 is the only Israel managed program I have had serious issues with, also with regards to William Hill, I can only speak highly of them, with the exception of a few late payments in the early days. Same for Titan Bet really.

  9. #8
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    Well I promote 888 since 2 years ago and they're the ONLY company that never paid me 1 cent. I work with sportsbook only, and I have them listed in 2 sites, but it looks like no one wants to play or somehow players always win. The affiliates software is indeed the worst I've ever seen. Until last month you couldn't even track clicks. It's simply a joke. The only reason why I keep 2 links to their pages is curiosity. I want to know how long it will take before I finally can make 10 dollars or so

  10. #9
    lowrisk is offline Private Member
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    Apparently I am getting paid at the end of the month, and then it's game over, insert coin

  11. #10
    lowrisk is offline Private Member
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    Still no answer as to why I was put in fraud review

  12. #11
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    Hmmn, interesteing stories here. I started promoting 888poker a few months ago and havent earned anything yet. Guess I wont put to much time into them?
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    www.usalegalslots.com - www.playusaonlinepoker.com - www.4deucespoker.com

  13. #12
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    888 has never been Affiliate friendly... Actually one of the worst programs out there, in my opinion.

    If your a small affiliate or just starting out... I would STRONGLY suggest you avoid 888/Ufilliates... I have had 888 on my blacklist for several years now... All because of the way they treat most affiliates.

  14. #13
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    universal4 is offline Forum Administrator
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    Something must be wrong with me....here I am agreeing with Lots0 again.....hmmmmmm....

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    If an affiliate program is not small affiliate friendly (especially small US Affiliate), then they are NOT Affiliate Friendly!

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  16. #14
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    I'm tending to agree with justbookies although I understand the issues raised by the other posters. I think the key problem is that Israel doesn't have a fully defined legal position on the management of online gambling sites: basically as long as the business doesn't accept Israeli players and doesn't not translate their content into Hebrew, they're more or less operating a management company according to the law. There's a lot of room for lack of transparency which I think doesn't exist in the UK or Gibraltar(?).

    Many (not all) operators based out of Israel or with Israeli management from abroad (Cyprus/Malta/Panama/Bulgaria) are connected to one another with the same overall owner - they appear to be independent from one another but all managed in coordination; employees leave/join/are seconded to these sister businesses, and this potentially opens the door to the problems affiliates experience. The problem is compounded if the software supplier also has connections to the operator's management.

    Frankly, when Betfair's first scandals exploded a few years ago (and since then) I really thought their management was similar to what I describe above.

  17. #15
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    888 should be avoided like the plague. There is for example evidence that the software is faulty. Youtube will help you.

    Players will be blocked if they win too much. I can swear to that.

    Why should they treat their affiliates differently?

    In my opinion ANY affiliate program is cheating, if the stats are updated only once a day.

    That's always been in the porn industry. In the gambling industry, it will be too.

    Defense

  18. #16
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    Ever since the US pulled out, 888's been going downhill in the way they treat both players and affiliates. I've got one of their AM's pursuing me to place them at the moment - i'll do so eventually for the sake of completeness, but they'll remain at the bottom of the pile as long as there are other better quality venues to place.
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  19. #17
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    One of my big concerns is the inroads that 888 has recently made in the legal/licensed US online market.

    The last thing any affiliate that targets the US market should want is 888/ufiliates heavy in the US 'Licensed' market.
    I believe the ufiliates management/owners will continue to do all they can to completely cut ALL affiliates out of the 'Legal' US Market.

  20. #18
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    I don't think there will be much to fear:
    a) 888 aren't the only ones making inroads- William Hill, Party and some others are also "making nice" with the department of justice there, so there will be some competition

    b) as best as I recall, at their peak in the first half of the previous decade, 888 didn't have an affiliate program - their traffic came from ads in places like Yahoo. (and around those years their casino had only some 9 games!) And since they opened their aff program they've earned a fair amount of criticism over how they run the program

    ...personally I don't think their sites are managed front-end to the same standards as other competitors, so all in all I wouldn't worry...

  21. #19
    Sergej_AGR is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowrisk View Post
    888 is the only Israel managed program
    There are a few more. Winneraffiliates for example

  22. #20
    lowrisk is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergej_AGR View Post
    There are a few more. Winneraffiliates for example
    Can I suggest you read the full post, and not a snippet. What I said was "888 is the only Israel managed program I have had serious issues with"

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