Change in GAU endorsed programs terms

[Chalkie]

Affstorm are set to make a change in their terms at the end of the month, the change involves the weekly payout threshold, which is to be raised.

The monthly payout threshold will not be changing, however, the full information and the official Affstorm statement can be found here:

GAU

As this change appears to only limit the amount of affiliates that will have the weekly payment available to them and the fact that the change will be for new affiliates only the GAU is happy to continue to endorse this program.

[kwblue]

Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?

[pgaming]

Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?

My impression as well?

pgaming/ shaddy

[Chalkie]

Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?

Andy, before i speak i wish to point out that i have no desire to fall out with you or upset you.

The GAU was set up to protect affiliates rights! Whatever road that leads the GAU down i will not be frightened to travel, whoever that upsets or whom's feathers it ruffles, no matter, because ultimately the GAU is here to protect affiliates and not make friends.

As you know we have call on Affstorms terms and conditions because we endorsed them at the GAU on the basis that we were happy with their terms.

Here is a section from their terms:

. Terms of the agreement
These terms will begin upon your signup with the affiliate program and will end when your affiliate account is terminated.The terms of this agreement may be modified by us at any time, and will announce changes 15 days before, and after consultation with one or more of the following; Association of Players, Casinos, and Webmasters (https://www.apcw.org) and Gambling Affiliates Union (http://gamblingaffiliatesunion.org), hereby known and APCW and GAU. If any modification to the terms is unacceptable to you, your only choice is to terminate your affiliate account. Your continuing participation in the program will constitute your acceptance of any change.

You certified this part of the terms when it was changed as part of our endorsement.

As you know, Affstorm are required to discuss any changes to terms with us as part of the endorsement, we have to inform our members of these changes, we would be failing them if we did not!

I am sorry if you feel that this is the GAU interfering in your field.

Yes our main aim is to offer an arbitration service for affiliates and programs, however, we are also committed to the greater cause, which is to fight for affiliates rights.

AGD will accept programs and certify them when they carry terms like the following:

Upon receipt of written notification by either party, the Agreement will be considered to be terminated immediately. Termination is at will, for any reason, by either party.

The GAU will never endorse terms like this.

You state that you certify programs with affiliate friendly terms, do you consider the above to be affiliate friendly?

We will white list programs with these type of terms to allow us to secure an arbitration agreement, however, we will never endorse terms like this! Our white list is clear in the fact that we are not endorsing them:

Programs accepted for the GAU white list are not endorsed by the GAU

When we endorse a program it is based on their terms and conditions in the main, are we wrong for trying to get fair terms?

I am sorry if you are unhappy with the GAU for operating in this way, however, the GAU will not fail its members simply to appease another organisation.

The GAU will never deviate from its goals and the quest for fair terms will always be on our agenda, should we drop this quest at the expense of our members simply to align ourself with AGD or any other organisation? Of course not, however, this does not mean that we have to be at odds with each other!

Andy, if you make headway i applaud you as i do with any organisation or person prepared to spare the time for affiliates, why not be the same? After all, we are both aiming for the same goal!

It is not a competition!

[pgaming]

Not cool GAU should be spending most of your time chasing those rogue programs down... start with the Virtual Group. Programs who refuse to pay players or affiliates.

pgaming/ shaddy

[Chalkie]

Not cool GAU should be spending most of your time chasing those rogue programs down... start with the Virtual Group. Programs who refuse to pay players or affiliates.

pgaming/ shaddy

The GAU will do whatever it can within its means to support affiliates in all issues.

We do not pick and choose, any GAU member is well within their rights to ask the GAU for support regarding anything that they require assistance on.

[Betpartners]

Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?

This is on the GAU mission statement available on their site

The Gambling Affiliates Union will fight for a legislated and regulated industry.


The Gambling Affiliates Union will work with the affiliate programs to develop terms and conditions that are fair for all.


The Gambling Affiliates Union is dedicated to improving the public perception of the online gambling industry.


The Gambling Affiliates Union recognizes the need for player protection within the industry and will consider player protection as an important objective in the interest of the affiliate community.

So to be fair they have made it quite clear for everyone to see what they are about.

[casinobonusguy]

I have to say my two cents here.A while back I think it was Cap talking about doing a system similar to AGD and every affiliate backed Andy then.It was wrong back then for CAP to steal Andy's work and GAU is stealing that same platform now.I cannot believe you have the nerve to say it is in the best of affiliates and more or less you will run over everything on the way.I am not a member and after this statement i will NEVER be a member.You are a copy cat and you have some nerve even questioning Andy and his site ethics.If there was EVER a site that was built to service affiliates it is what Andy has built and I for one will not support a two month old project that suddenly thinks it is an 'Authority' site and a leader who think this way : Whatever road that leads the GAU down i will not be frightened to travel, whoever that upsets or whom's feathers it ruffles, no matter, because ultimately the GAU is here to protect affiliates and not make friends.
You cannot throw Morals and Ethics out the window and go on what ever path you choose.
Andy posted ' Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?'
and then you posted the reply you did because you know GAU is stealing his platform.

[Betpartners]

I have to say my two cents here.A while back I think it was Cap talking about doing a system similar to AGD and every affiliate backed Andy then.It was wrong back then for CAP to steal Andy's work and GAU is stealing that same platform now.I cannot believe you have the nerve to say it is in the best of affiliates and more or less you will run over everything on the way.I am not a member and after this statement i will NEVER be a member.You are a copy cat and you have some nerve even questioning Andy and his site ethics.If there was EVER a site that was built to service affiliates it is what Andy has built and I for one will not support a two month old project that suddenly thinks it is an 'Authority' site and a leader who think this way : Whatever road that leads the GAU down i will not be frightened to travel, whoever that upsets or whom's feathers it ruffles, no matter, because ultimately the GAU is here to protect affiliates and not make friends.
You cannot throw Morals and Ethics out the window and go on what ever path you choose.
Andy posted ' Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?'
and then you posted the reply you did because you know GAU is stealing his platform.

I was thinking what words to describe your post, words like nasty, spiteful, awful, uneccasary and i thought better of it and decided to ask you a very a couple of simple questions and then to look at the points that you raised.

Points that could have been raised in a far more respectful manner may i add.

The questions are

Did you even read the mission statement that has been up there since day one?

If you did why did you or Andy not say something at the time.

If you did not why did you or Andy not say something when Paul was dealing with Affstorm terms and conditions weeks ago.

Why choose this moment and not any of the many many opportunities you had previously to question Paul and the GAU about his involvement in terms and conditions.

Now lets deal with the points you raised.

I have to say my two cents here.A while back I think it was Cap talking about doing a system similar to AGD and every affiliate backed Andy then.It was wrong back then for CAP to steal Andy's work and GAU is stealing that same platform now.

Really, so Andy has that monopoly does he, no one else can ever get involved in terms and conditions, only Andy? is that what you are saying.

All the affiliates backed Andy back when Cap did it and yet this time they have signed up to the GAU in their hundreds and again please note the mission statement was there for every single affiliate to read from day one.

I cannot believe you have the nerve to say it is in the best of affiliates and more or less you will run over everything on the way.

Well he never said that but fine twist words to support your point of view no problem there and even if you are right i agree it is terrible that an organisation will protect affiliates to best of its ability no matter what

Terrible that just terrible.

I am not a member and after this statement i will NEVER be a member.

Good for you and i respect your decision to choose what YOU want to do, shame you cannot extend the same courtesy to Paul.

You are a copy cat and you have some nerve even questioning Andy and his site ethics.

Copycat? i think if you read what Paul wrote he set out quite a different agenda and method of operation to Andy, as an example Paul said he will never endorse terms that have a term that allows affiliate programs to terminate an agreement at will

A significant difference and i will leave it to others to judge if allowing programs to terminate at will is good for affiliates.

If there was EVER a site that was built to service affiliates it is what Andy has built and I for one will not support a two month old project that suddenly thinks it is an 'Authority' site and a leader who think this way :

Who said they think they are an authority site, may i suggest stick to the points and not put words in peoples mouths.

2 months old? is that relevant? does not seem to be to the programs on the white list Paul has created or the GPWA who have created a forum on here for the GAU or the members that have signed up.

Whatever road that leads the GAU down i will not be frightened to travel, whoever that upsets or whom's feathers it ruffles, no matter, because ultimately the GAU is here to protect affiliates and not make friends.

Sounds like good news for affilaites to me

You cannot throw Morals and Ethics out the window and go on what ever path you choose.

Demnading a monopoly and trying to push out any organisation that wants to help affiliates is very moral and ethical is it?

Andy posted ' Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?'
and then you posted the reply you did because you know GAU is stealing his platform.

Or maybe he posted what he did because Andy was out of order, Andy knew full well weeks and weeks ago about the GAU and AFFstorm and said absolutely not a word then.

Now i respect Andy and what he does and i respect Paul and what he does and there is room for both of them but i warned Paul a while back that the little cliques that have developed in this industry will come creeping out of the woodwork and start unwarranted attacks and attempt to dreail the good work he his trying to do.

Rather than attacking Paul you should be helping him and so should Andy, this is not a competition, this is about affiliates and shame on you for this poor attempt at underming a well intenioned project that is ther to protect and defend affilaites rights.

Final point to consider, the GAU is not in to terms and conditions at its core, it is about disputes but as Paul stated quite clearly from day one the GAU will also become involved in ANY subject that involves affiliates without fear of upsetting those that think they have a monopoly in one particular area.

[pgaming]

this is not a competition

Of course not but the complete opposite I viewed the GAU purpose was for. We need someone who is dedicated going after some the scumbags who infest the industry. Maybe AGD will now pick up this niche.

Not a member of the GAU

greek39

[Betpartners]

Of course not but is the complete opposite I viewed the GAU purpose was for. We need someone who is dedicated going after some the scumbags who infest the industry. Maybe AGD will now pick up this niche.

Not a member of the GAU

greek39

I thought that was what AGD, GAU, GPWA, GIA, GAP(the original) etc were all doing mate, trying to get rid of the scumbags in this industry albeit by different methods.

Anyway i am wondering why the derailing of this thread would have been stopped by the GPWA by now.

Maybe Paul should jump in to the AGD thread and start to derail Andys post with questions about the AGD.

That said i would like to think that if Paul had an issue with Andy he would PM him rather than ask a question about a situation in public that he already knew about weeks ago.

But thats just me

Proud member of the GAU

[pgaming]

Nothing more too say other than maybe I will fill that niche. I would like the Virtual Group blown off the webmap by the end of 2010.

greek39

[Anthony]

Alright guys.

We all want to work for the betterment of the affiliate community.

I will contact Paul and Andy and we talk this out before it really gets out of hand. We are all on the same side, we can't move forward if we are bickering with ourselves.

[GCG]

Originally Posted by casinobonusguy
I have to say my two cents here.A while back I think it was Cap talking about doing a system similar to AGD and every affiliate backed Andy then.It was wrong back then for CAP to steal Andy's work and GAU is stealing that same platform now.I cannot believe you have the nerve to say it is in the best of affiliates and more or less you will run over everything on the way.I am not a member and after this statement i will NEVER be a member.You are a copy cat and you have some nerve even questioning Andy and his site ethics.If there was EVER a site that was built to service affiliates it is what Andy has built and I for one will not support a two month old project that suddenly thinks it is an 'Authority' site and a leader who think this way : Whatever road that leads the GAU down i will not be frightened to travel, whoever that upsets or whom's feathers it ruffles, no matter, because ultimately the GAU is here to protect affiliates and not make friends.
You cannot throw Morals and Ethics out the window and go on what ever path you choose.
Andy posted ' Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?'
and then you posted the reply you did because you know GAU is stealing his platform.

I think it is more of the same if GUA is adding programs T&C to its goals, I would expect GAU to help AGD implement the other ones. If GUA wants to do the same I feel Andy does not get awarded anymore for that, we all want that he will continue his good work.

Second if you think T&C the most important for GAU you are plain wrong.

We need a Union to defend us from those who left the party without paying us and those who are partying with us to pay us for what we are entitled to. To verify the latter we need more testing and auditing THAT IS the most difficult part and not the other way around to make sure we get the paycheck...

[Shaun O'neill]

I dont currently work with GAU or AGD i think both are offering a great service and both are in the business of looking after you the affiliate in my mind i would embrace this rather than starting a war between the two.

I applaud Andy in what he has achived with AGD and at the same time i also think what Paul has achived with GAU in such a short time is great.

I thinking the community has space for both sites.

Shaun

[Chalkie]

I have to say my two cents here.A while back I think it was Cap talking about doing a system similar to AGD and every affiliate backed Andy then.It was wrong back then for CAP to steal Andy's work and GAU is stealing that same platform now.

I am pleased that you have posted in and expected it, of course i did, however, not in the manner that you have chosen.

Let me say, i was clear in what i said, however, you choose to read it a different way and add assumption and accusation where it is undeserved. Where was it i said i was concentrating on terms, where was it that i said i was stealing off Andy?

Have you read the mission statement on the GAU, a statement that has not changed since day one? The statement that led everyone to sign up as members.

I am not stealing off of anyone, i am not a thief and you are completely out of order to say that! I would never go around accusing anyone of being a thief and to be accused of such when all i am doing is helping third parties for no reward whatsoever is very hurtful!

I cannot believe you have the nerve to say it is in the best of affiliates and more or less you will run over everything on the way.

I did not say this either, you are doing a very good job here of twisting my words! What i said was i will not fail GAU members (affiliates) by being weak and by being scared to upset people! I have to do what is needed for affiliates.

Quite obviously, the GAU getting a program to change its terms for the better has upset Andy, should that matter to me or anyone? Should people not applaud the fact rather than get worried that the GAU are stepping on someones toes?

Should i have not got a program to change their terms because it would upset the apple cart?

Surely to do so would be failing my members?

I am not a member and after this statement i will NEVER be a member.

That of course is your choice, i have no issue with that, however, as a crusader for all that is good, what does that represent? A crusader for all that is good not supporting an organisation that is designed to help affiliates for no reward?

I support 100% every organisation that is prepared to fight for affiliates, irrelevant of whether they show the GAU support or not! I support AGD, even now, Andy is doing a great job in many ways, i will not lose my support for AGD just because AGD does not support the GAU and is offended by what we do!

You are a copy cat and you have some nerve even questioning Andy and his site ethics.

Where did i question Andy's ethics? I never did!

Copy cat?

If i am a copy cat for having the aim to change bad terms then i am, however, so is AGD and many others, as i am sure that many tried before ADG ever existed to get terms changed!

If i am a copy cat for launching an organisation to fight for affiliates rights then so are many others!

Thing is, i am not copying AGD am i? What part of me not liking terms that Andy accepts is me copying? I see that as the opposite not copying!

If there was EVER a site that was built to service affiliates it is what Andy has built and I for one will not support a two month old project that suddenly thinks it is an 'Authority' site and a leader who think this way : Whatever road that leads the GAU down i will not be frightened to travel, whoever that upsets or whom's feathers it ruffles, no matter, because ultimately the GAU is here to protect affiliates and not make friends.

I am not saying that Andy has not built a good site, neither am i saying that Andy does not offer a great service to affiliates.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT THE GAU WILL NOT BOW DOWN TO ANYONE FOR ANY REASON AT THE EXPENSE OF AFFILIATES.

I do not profess to be an authority site, but i will certainly not be quiet for the sake of it! If i am weak and not prepared to fight then i may as well just give up now!

You cannot throw Morals and Ethics out the window and go on what ever path you choose.

Dear me, i must look back and check what language i wrote in! I am pretty clear in the fact that i will never compromise my morals or ethics, that was the whole point of my post!

Andy posted ' Is the GAU now doing terms changes instead of what it was set up to do? Which, I had thought, was disputes?'
and then you posted the reply you did because you know GAU is stealing his platform.

Andy did post this yes!

Why?

What reason do you think he posted this? I can tell you now it was not for the answer to the question because he knows that answer!

We have discussed this subject between ourselves and although i was pretty clear in the knowledge that Andy does not like the GAU dealing in terms and conditions, i expressed in no uncertain terms that the GAU would not stop doing so!

AGD carries a term change for aff storm noting that we agreed and arranged it!

Was that term change for the good? Of course it was and it was very simple to get it agreed too!

This is the reason why i originally posted in the manner i did, because i will not stand for people questioning me or the GAU in this manner. This was a petty post that derailed the thread for no other reason than to call out the GAU and bring it in to dispute for Andy's own reasons. It was not, i repeat NOT a genuine question.

I WILL NOT SIT BACK AND ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN

As i said, i do not want to fall out with Andy, or anyone else for that matter, and in 1600+ posts, i defy anyone to find a handful of posts where i have fallen out in a serious manner with anyone! I am not one that gets involved in political rows or arguments for the sake of it, however, anyone that wants to bring the GAU in to disrepute will find a different Chalkie!

I am willing to discuss and work with anyone, always have been and always will be, however, i will not compromise my ethics for anyone! Is that so wrong?

[Chalkie]

Of course not but the complete opposite I viewed the GAU purpose was for. We need someone who is dedicated going after some the scumbags who infest the industry. Maybe AGD will now pick up this niche.

Not a member of the GAU

greek39

Peter, you know full well the GAU is prepared to go after anyone that steals from affiliates!

Why should we not also try to do other things that are beneficial to our members?

Trying to get terms that stop people stealing from affiliates will make life so much easier in the future, why should we not try to do so?

You miss the point, the point that the GAU is the only one that is free from sponsorship!

Thats the key point regarding the GAU.

Money will not cloud our judgement unlike any other organisation! That was the reason for forming the GAU, as everybody is aware!

What i do is for free, not for financial reward!

[Chalkie]

Alright guys.

We all want to work for the betterment of the affiliate community.

I will contact Paul and Andy and we talk this out before it really gets out of hand. We are all on the same side, we can't move forward if we are bickering with ourselves.

Thanks Anthony, think i just missed you earlier.

I am happy to work with yourself and Andy to solve our little spat and move forward in a more productive manner!

[Chalkie]

I think it is more of the same if GUA is adding programs T&C to its goals, I would expect GAU to help AGD implement the other ones. If GUA wants to do the same I feel Andy does not get awarded anymore for that, we all want that he will continue his good work.

I agree completely, the GAU and AGD should work together!

Agreeing a term change for the better must surely be the GAU helping AGD not hurting them!

I do not want an award for helping out, the solution is reward enough in its own right!

I want Andy to carry on with the good work too!

Second if you think T&C the most important for GAU you are plain wrong.

They are not the most important, however, they are important all the same! Without a foundation, how can one build a wall!

We need a Union to defend us from those who left the party without paying us and those who are partying with us to pay us for what we are entitled to. To verify the latter we need more testing and auditing THAT IS the most difficult part and not the other way around to make sure we get the paycheck...

Agreed totally.

[ddm]

lots of pointless bickering and ego n this thread imo.

my .01c
if there's more than 1 group keeping tabs on what these affil programs are upto, I am down with that.. these groups compliment each other and can't be bad for the gambling Affil community.

thx for the updates and keep em coming GAU.