Why so many Complaints?

[mojo]

Affiliates are so unhappy on so many levels.

Why is that?

[TheGooner]

I read somewhere recently that 80% of small businesses fail in their first year - and that another 50% that survived fold in the second year (90% total).

If we consider a website/affiliate as an inexperienced small business person (as most affiliates don't even have a registered company or LLC structure) then we might see an even higher failure rate - and perhaps the "unhappiness" is an expression of that frustration?

Those that do succeed in this "game" enough to be able to move to full time work ARE generally happy. Of course they don't spend time posting about their joy in the forums - they get on with profitable tasks at hand.

So it's not surprising that a forum like the GPWA is mainly comprised of initial complaints or requests for help - followed by responses. That is the nature of forums.

Becoming a successful affiliate is very rewarding - especially when compared to mainstream salaries in the "real world". But it requires a large set of skills such as computer literacy (or support), a very high work ethic, business competance, financial planning and an awareness of both tactical and strategic planning in order to succeed.

--------------------

In summary :

Most affiliates that survive the first two years and succeed are happy - but we generally don't hear much fom that group. That forum fallout tends to be from people who are crashing and burning ...

[giggles7p]

Well geez Gooner, no wonder i suck! LOL

Thank god you big time affiliates need writers!

LOL

Have a great week everyone

Pat

[Puma]

I think all you have to do is look at a few threads in the gpwa forum to understand why there are so many complaints. Lack of trust in what is probably the most dishonest business in the world. Its hard to find the positives with so many issues.

[raphnix]

As what TheGooner said, forums like this is either for rant off of some players and affiliates or for promotion of such.

However, forums can also be used as Q&A guide for newbies that's why most who post here are newbies like me in affiliate. When they got off to success, they mostly tend to attend more business meeting than chatting in the forums.

[thepokerkeep]

I agree with what most have said in this thread.

The other major reason is lack of homework! Most complaints/problems could be avoided if new affiliates did more research into the business and the programs they do business with.

The forums are full of posts from different people complaining about the same programs.

[satya]

I agree with what most have said in this thread.

The other major reason is lack of homework! Most complaints/problems could be avoided if new affiliates did more research into the business and the programs they do business with.

The forums are full of posts from different people complaining about the same programs.

Very true!

The problem arises when there is a gap between the expectations and the offering.

New affs should make a checklist of what they need and verify with the affiliate programs before starting to work with them. They should document everything discussed through IMs to make sure they have proof of the communications and special deals if any. Also make sure that you ask the established affiliates and check historical posts on different forums. Better to have an established affiliate as a mentor.

There are 100s of programs around and you will never run out of programs who meet your requirements.

[GamTrak]

Becoming a successful affiliate is very rewarding - especially when compared to mainstream salaries in the "real world". But it requires a large set of skills such as computer literacy (or support), a very high work ethic, business competance, financial planning and an awareness of both tactical and strategic planning in order to succeed.

You spot on with this statement! You have to wear many hats!

If I had not had my many years of technical experience and working in corporate america then I would have given up a long time a go. It also helps that I'm a 'information pack rat". I save everything that I want to learn about, valuable tips, etc in MS OneNote to come back to.

This is not a job that just anyone can do and be successful at by any means and you have to constantly be creative.

As an example of how you have to 'think out of the box', this morning I just completed my first GamTrak Commercial for my new project! GamTrak Software & Affiliate Program.

Sorry for the plug, but I could not resist.

[casinojack]

I was lucky, when I started you could still PPC everywhere, so my first month I made money. Was also at a time was still kind of new, so a lot of room , not as much competition.

Now, you have to know you stuff. I think a lot of affiliates were like me. We kind of just worked, and did not get on forums as we saw them as waste of time. AS an AM I love it, and I am glad to be active now on a few forums. I have shared some of the ways I make money, but I think my goals are still realistic.

I think goals need to be set first, and also see how they are made. for example, If I have anew site, and by week 2 I expect 500 visitors a day and 10 new clients a day, I must be smoking something. There is not get rich fast formula I know of.

Might be nice to share some sucess stories to help improve some affiliates hopes and dreams ?

[universal4]

I think there is an entire list of things that haven't been mentioned....I may mention a few but I am sure this is not an entire list.

One only has to look at the changes we have all had to endure (with the law making drastic changes in both operator and affiliate camps) and ever since then many programs have consistiently been making many more changes to the structure of their programs, commission changes, terms changes and more.

Geez, just look at how many programs have forced link changes on us the past year or so.

Look at how many programs changed their back-end reporting suite, many of which now offer less tracking capability concerning visitors than they did before the changes....

Look at how many of the forums are full of questions and issues that have NEVER been dealt with, even after many months of waiting.

Look at the recent thread where we discussed the different support levels for small affiliates as opposed to the level the larger affiliates recieve.

I agree that in business things change, and businesses have to adjust to those changes, but the direction some groups have been heading is clearly NOT in the affiliates' best interest and many affiliates are upset with that and have been voicing their concerns in hopes of making the changes in more positive directions.

I think part of that will come from the more seasoned affiliates and senior members of the various forums to help the programs understand that they need to study the issues being raised and work more closely with affiliates large and small on solutions that will be benficial to all sides now and into the future.

Rick
Universal4

[giggles7p]

I am by no means a "big" affiliate. But i have been doing it for about 4 years now, and 2 more working for other webmasters as a mod, and i can genuinely say that until this past year or so, i was extremely happy as an affiliate. I did not make alot of money, maybe 1500 a month on my programs, but i was happy with that, i don't need to make a lot of money, just enough to help out the household, more would be great, but i was happy with my work, and the type of peers i worked with, other webmasters, affiliate managers..etc..and i can honestly say everything was great until......UIEGA.

Now, as an affiliate, there is more stress, more disappointment, and if you are a "little" affiliate like myself, you can not survive on commissions anymore, you have to branch out to something else, like i have with content writing, doing this, or anything else an affiliate needs to do to get through this period in time, is the only way i see the newer affiiates making it until the laws change and the affiliate programs loosen up and start being affiliate friendly again.

Pat

[HorseFoot]

A lot of very useful information on this thread. Thanks guys.

[Dominique]

IMO there is a deep rooted distrust that is the basis of much of the issues.

There is a lack of transparency, affiliates are forever suspecting programs of shaving. This could only be fixed with proper, regular audits.

Of course recent events, like Grand Prive and possibly the future structure of Vegas Affiliates are also contributing to the distrust.

What point is there in building up a player base over time if the programs just yank it out from under you and refuse to pay your earned share? What future is there for affs?

Makes you very leery of sending too many players to any one place.

It also means that we are not only working in an industry that offers no benefits such as insurance and retirement and such, but also in one that can pull the plug on you at any time and refuse to pay monies owed.

The player base we create is our only insurance for things like sudden drops in google or accidents or what have you.

The current trend to install quotas (minimum player rules) means that there is little room for serious affiliates anymore.

Between outright discontinuation to pay monies owed and quotas, it is getting to where relying on this income longterm is an enormous risk.

If this quota trend continues, I will likely be looking for greener pastures. I have staff, several families with children depend on me. If I can't depend on the revenues we worked for so long and hard, how can I let these good folks depend on me in good conscience?

So, it's not just new or small affiliates struggling, it's all of us facing the same issues.

We ALL need to stick together and stop this industry from becoming a really bad working environment.

[TheGooner]

There is a lack of transparency, affiliates are forever suspecting programs of shaving. This could only be fixed with proper, regular audits.

Of course recent events, like Grand Prive and possibly the future structure of Vegas Affiliates are also contributing to the distrust.

Makes you very leery of sending too many players to any one place.

I certainly see these concerns being posted on the forums but frankly I think that affiliates need to choose better partners.

OK that might be easier for me to say as I predominantly look at the European gaming space - where the quality and integrity of programs is much better due to better legislation - but honestly NONE of this is an issue for me WITH ANY OF MY PARTNERS - and I have half a dozen North American facing programs too.

There are a lot of less successful outfits with high CPA and percentage enticements - but really reliability and trustworthiness for players should come first and foremost - and if it does then the affiliate gets a better deal too.

It also means that we are not only working in an industry that offers no benefits such as insurance and retirement and such, but also in one that can pull the plug on you at any time and refuse to pay monies owed.

You've set up a business for yourself - it's up to YOU to provide these things for you and your workers. That's true of all industries - it's the companies the provide worker benefits not some higher force or "industry" body.

The current trend to install quotas (minimum player rules) means that there is little room for serious affiliates anymore.

Actually I think that "serious" affiliates don't have the problem as the quotas are usually quite a low hurdle - it's the casual affiliates that get hit by this rule isn't it?

--------------------------

Dominique - I don't mean to make light of the issues - or suggest that everything that you've mentioned doesn't exist ... but ... these sort of issues are true for almost any small business person in any industry.

Selling casinos, poker rooms and sportsbooks to the internet public is only one facet that an affiliate has to master in order to succeed.

They also need to be fiscally prudent - set aside sufficient cash to meet payroll and benefits for 3-6 months in the future (even if "payroll" is only paying yourself at the start) - and make good decisions on who to partner with.

I beleive that the barrier to entry into this affiliate business is so low that we see many people get started without any idea of how to succeed, or what pitfalls lie in wait.

[Dominique]

Gooner - as I usually preface comments to you - I have no idea how things work in the sportsbetting sector.

But - Grand Prive was as trustworty as they come. I started with them when they were Referspot. I was with them for some 7 years and built up a nice little playerbase. I did so under contract. There was no reason to believe they would just stop paying.

The quotas are not an issue for me personally now at all, but they are very much so for smaller affiliates. They can completely strangle a smaller affiliate.

It is the principle - I remember well how it was when I was struggling. If I sign up for xx% comission, that's what I expect to see. If I hadn't sent the players, they would not have them. I don't see the problem, we only get paid a percentage of the profit that a casino makes off our traffic. If the player is playing, we should get paid.

All the time I have worked in this industry, I strived to create good sized player bases with programs. I was told I would be paid for the player for life. That was the contract.

I used to be happy to send a lot of players to one program. Not anymore. Now more than ever, I make sure my eggs are in many, many baskets. If one of them drops out, I still have the great majority of eggs intact.

What Vegas affiliates is planning to do is to get rid of US affiliates who are not yet established in other countries. These affiliates have driven traffic for years and have nice player bases, but they are not driving traffic now due to the MGS exit from the US. So now these affiliates aren't necessary, so why pay them what is due?

It's not the way business used to be. The worst we worried about was shaving. Now we have to worry about our revenues just being taken, regardless of what contracts we signed.

That is just wrong.

[Puma]

What Vegas affiliates is planning to do is to get rid of US affiliates who are not yet established in other countries. These affiliates have driven traffic for years and have nice player bases, but they are not driving traffic now due to the MGS exit from the US. So now these affiliates aren't necessary, so why pay them what is due?

There were posts done years ago about how Vegas affiliates could not be trusted. I am sure many took those posts with a grain of salt. Its too bad because there was fair warning about them. Tracking issues, lack of responses from managers etc.

[mojo]

I think that Dom has summed up much of it well. I also will not put all my eggs in one basket. We never know what's coming next.

I think the min player rule affects many affs. I struggle with that at some places. If you have 4 new players and one is a high roller, ouch. I won't touch a place that does that.

Then we have the new software changes where suddenly players stopped playing.

Then there is this High Roller term.

Then there is bundling, neg carryovers, chargebacks. The list goes on.

I do enjoy doing this but it's the constant battles that can wear us down. But if we don't battle, none of us would be in business.

Some great responses here. Giggles, I think that what you are doing is great. It keeps you in the biz and surviving while you build. Perserverance and not quitting is what it takes.

Gooner I finally took your advice and made myself a sole proprieter for now.

Originally Posted by Dominique We ALL need to stick together and stop this industry from becoming a really bad working environment.

Amen.

[giggles7p]

Thanks Mojo.

You know, i don't even mind a bigger business, that i work for, and refer customers to telling me, that i am not keeping up my side of the contract by not sending any new players to them, and they are considering dropping me as an active affiliate. Thats there right as a business, as long as they contact me in advance and give me the chance [if i wish] to step up my campaigns with them and try and become more of an asset to them, but, if they decide that i am not sending enough, so be it, MY PROBLEM IS, they can end a contract, the proper way, BUT, any players that i already have, should not be taken away, those are mine for life. If they continue playing, then i should continue earning. period. Is this to much to ask from a "descent" company that wants to be respected in this business?

Pat

[raphnix]

So far, from my observations, the complaints are getting worst nowadays than before since more competition are emerging thus some are desperate to go rogue.

The scene is becoming worse with villains and heroes of the industry plunging to a total war in the internet.

[AndreS]

I think the most important statement here was Dom saying that there has to be audits of affiliate programs. It is amazing to me that I have been in this industry for five years now and no smart, savy, webmaster or group of webmasters has created some kind of clever auditing site. I think this is hugely important and would solve sooooo many trust issues.

My #1 concern from the beginning as a smaller affiliate and now still as a large affiliate is whether I am keeping my players. I find it odd how players mysteriously disappear, how 1000 hits can lead to no new players, etc. I also don't trust that when a player deposits that we see 100% of everything they ever deposit. I also don't trust that a high roller isn't contacted and told to go to a different brand under that affiliate group so they can get the player on the other casino without an affiliate code.

Also, another main reason why affiliates in this industry aren't happy is because although you can be making money, even big money, for a short or long period of time, if you depend on the search engines, all it takes is one minor tweak to an algorithm, one wrong link, one wrong site adjustment and all of a sudden your rankings are gone and so is your income.

Lack of trust and lack of security are the two main reasons, imo, that affiliates in this industry are not generally happy.