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  1. #21
    boczom1's Avatar
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    I hate to pile-on here...but i'm another one that started promoting Windows Casino back around 1999, with at-least a couple depositing players on our account. Only for my account to of seemed to of disappeared, with them telling me i'd need to fill out a new app.

    then again, the same thing happened to me with Captain Cooks affiliate program.... right before switching to Rewards Affiliates.

    when they switched to Rewards Affiliates, all my players disappeared. (we had 50 to 100 or more depositing players at that time....all wiped out)

    not sure what type of issue occurred during the 'transitional' process , but nothing bad to say about Rewards Affiliates since beginning with em.

  2. #22
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    I hate to pile-on here...but i'm another one that started promoting Windows Casino back around 1999, with at-least a couple depositing players on our account. Only for my account to of seemed to of disappeared, with them telling me i'd need to fill out a new app.
    What has this got to do with Flash Games ? Also the Casino changed ownership and software type. You would have to sign up again - so not sure that your comments here are relevant.

    Lotso - you have proof of them cheating you ? I was the program manager at the time and i dont remember even having these flash games or doing any exclusive deal with you on them. We have been over this old chestnut a number of times now on various threads and all you do is make accusations with no factual basis.

    Your traffic is predominantly US from what i remember - you got 2 UK players over i cant remember what period and both charged back. Basically you were sending bad traffic to the product. This happens ,you have been told this a number of times and you always seem to pop up to make unwarranted accusations.

    If you are not going to make a valid contribution to what are valid concern re flash games then rather stay out of the thread. I run various sites with these flash games and the way Playtech has set up these games is worrying as i want to ensure that i get paid what is due to me.

    As various parties have pointed out this is not an issue restricted to WJ it is a Playtech wide issue.

  3. #23
    manman is offline Public Member
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    Smile 888games

    You can use the 5 Free on 888games as well, they are offering free flash slots...

  4. #24
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    Lotso - you have proof of them cheating you ?
    Enough proof for me.

    g-man I don't know who you are and your information about me is incorrect.
    I started promoting Windows casino when Mark Friedman owed it and I promoted them thru two different owners, I never had to re-sign up once.

    I think the attack by the g-man, trying to discredit me and my traffic(that has nothing to do with this conversation) shows what kind of people are behind wagerjunction...

    If you don't want to get ripped off, take my advice and avoid wagerjunction... or you can do business with them and in a few months you will be posting here about how wagerjunction tracking is not accurate and how your conversion rate with wagerjunction has dropped.

    Also unlike the g-man I don't have a financial motivation to post about wagerjunction (other than they ripped me off).
    I just don't like seeing people get ripped off by a bad program ran by untrustworthy people, like I did.
    Last edited by lots0; 21 August 2012 at 9:26 am.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    Also the Casino changed ownership and software type. You would have to sign up again - so not sure that your comments here are relevant.
    well then, it should at-least be a wake up call for affiliate programs deciding to make changes in the future. That merging / changing ownership doesn't take you off the hook. If you're going to change owners, let the people that referred them keep their share.

  6. #26
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    boczom1.. what the g-man is saying is that wagerjunction ripped off your players.
    Why would you have to re-sign with a program after ownership changed and not keep your prior players? That is a ridiculously stupid statement by a shill for wagerjunction.

    Like I said I promoted them thru two different owners and more aff managers than I can count and I never had to re-sign with them to keep my players.

    Of course, I did end up losing all the players I had accumulated in YEARS of promoting windows/wagerjunction... keeping regular players on an affiliates books is not a wagerjunction strong point.. if you get my meaning.
    Last edited by lots0; 21 August 2012 at 9:59 am.

  7. #27
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    well then, it should at-least be a wake up call for affiliate programs deciding to make changes in the future. That merging / changing ownership doesn't take you off the hook. If you're going to change owners, let the people that referred them keep their share.
    Bozcom1 - Affiliates kept their players generated on the RTG affiliate program which is what Windows Casino was on . The new owners who i worked for at the time totally cleaned up the RTG program that Windows was on and made it a place that was safe for affiliates to promote. They got rid of all of the false advertising and hidden affiliate charges and in response Windows got removed from loads of blacklists etc and business rocketed.

    What happened next was that UIGEA was brought in and Windows Casino stopped accepting play from US citizens. They were i think at the time the only RTG to implement this. This was an extremely painful experience for me. It was one of the reasons as to why i became an affiliate.

    The owners then moved both Windows Casino and King Solomons Casino to Playtech and all affiliates were mailed re this numerous times. There was no migration of players - there was also no sale of DBs to other RTGs and no cut out of affiliates as you have seen with other brands.

    Essentially these two products launched on Playtech were brand new casinos that affiliates could promote and earn revenue off and do to this day.

    Lotso - i dont need to discredit you - you do a good job of that by yourself in your various rants in various threads on this forum . You have nothing of value to add to this thread. It is obvious you have an axe to grind so go ahead and grind it.

    The same people that own WJ have launched and run some of the biggest bingo sites in the world as well as running one of the biggest bingo affiliate programs. Tons of affiliates promote them and their products simply because of the exemplary treatment they have recieved by a team that i set up that works across multiple products. And yes it is a team that i am proud of and an accomplishment. If they make the occasional blooper - well every program does that . They do correct things though and dont hide anything.

    The reasons that i continue promoting their products is that i know them and i know the values that they ascribe to. Make of that what you will, as far as calling me a shill - well again thats your choice - utter venemous garbage is what you usually pen and i see it has not changed much in the years.
    Last edited by theGman; 21 August 2012 at 10:33 am.

  8. #28
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    By the way Bozcom1 - if you had non US players on the RTG they would still be tracked on the RTG affiliate program which is still alive and maintained despite the loss of major markets. That is because Windows is still paying its RTG affiliates for earnings. I dont have any as i was working for them at the time but i do know that it is there.

    I just wonder how a Playtech Flash games link issue turns into this ?

  9. #29
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    Lotso - i dont need to discredit you - you do a good job of that by yourself in your various rants in various threads on this forum . You have nothing of value to add to this thread. It is obvious you have an axe to grind so go ahead and grind it.

    The same people that own WJ have launched and run some of the biggest bingo sites in the world as well as running one of the biggest bingo affiliate programs. Tons of affiliates promote them and their products simply because of the exemplary treatment they have recieved by a team that i set up that works across multiple products. And yes it is a team that i am proud of and an accomplishment. If they make the occasional blooper - well every program does that . They do correct things though and dont hide anything.
    Oh I know who you are now... one of the many aff managers that used to work at wagerjunction.
    I forgot, how long did you work there? was it 4 months or 6... there were so many incompetent aff managers that went thru there for a couple of years, it was hard to keep track of all of them.

    I understand you still work for this large group...
    Arn't you still an aff manager for one of their Bingo sites while you run your 'personal' sites on the side?

    Does it ever bother you that most of the ideas for your 'personal' sites were 'borrowed' from the most profitable affiliates that you as an affiliate manager worked with in the past?

    They don't hide anything.. you are a funny man... OK, if they don't hide anything... Who is the Owner?
    What are the 'other' properties they own/run? Please don't HIDE these important facts from us all...

    //added So far I don't think this qualifies as one of my Rants... But stay tuned, you just never know about me....
    Last edited by lots0; 21 August 2012 at 11:57 am.

  10. #30
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Default Lol

    I understand you still work for this large group...
    Arn't you still an aff manager for one of their Bingo sites while you run your 'personal' sites on the side?

    Does it ever bother you that most of the ideas for your 'personal' sites were 'borrowed' from the most profitable affiliates that you as an affiliate manager worked with in the past?
    You have amazing insight . Did you just pull this out of your thumb ?

    Well seeing as they ( my ex employers ) are based in the UK and i am in Cesmealti in Turkey that could be a remote possibility couldnt it ?

    I can tell you must be pretty bored - because if you can dream all of that up and present it here - well, you must be.

    I am not prepared to waste any more time arguing with you and presenting a rebuttal of your wild statements . You know remarkeably little and present no fact in your latest diatribe. At least in that you are consistent.

    Why dont you go off now and find a thread where you can rant about Casinomeister - a man who actually knows what he is talking about .

  11. #31
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    All I did was ask questions...

    Obviously, you don't like my questions...

    Ouch.. your personal comments about me are gonna make me cry... lol

  12. #32
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    my last response - No you didnt ask questions - you made statements - all of which are total rubbish. Dont worry ill send you a box of tissues

  13. #33
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    Trying to follow this and admit I'm confused. There are experienced affs trying to alert us to the problem on flash games and a problem with WJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    As various parties have pointed out this is not an issue restricted to WJ it is a Playtech wide issue.

    Are you speaking as an ex-employee or affilate or both? Are you working with them in another capacity besides affiliating? The reason I ask is that I just want to be clear if your responses are official as a rep of WJ because I would like to know more about the link changing the next day. Sorry if it's already been answered and I missed it.

    Thanks.

  14. #34
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Default more than happy to answer

    Hi Mojo - more than happy to answer your questions. I am an ex employee of WJ and am a full time affiliate in various niches.

    I run a few gambling sites ( Casino and Bingo and other non gambling sites. I left them about 5 years ago and have been doing various things in the gambling space and other affiliate niches.

    I know the last few posts have muddied the waters so to speak and i apologize for my part in it.

    I am not aware of the link changing the next day - youd have to ask the OP re that , but as i stated the only way for these links to change as far as i was aware , was if Playtech changed them and they are not quick at changing things - well at least that was my experience.

    If i am not mistaken the OP posted this link

    hxxp://banner.kingsolomons.com/flashcasino.php?language=EN&id=1&member=&profile=&game=bld&_realonly=1
    I know that when i started the program on the Playtech system that link was controlled by Playtech - meaning that if any changes occurred to the structure of the link, it had to be done on the Playtech side.

    The affiliate program is not able to make amendments to those links. That is totally controlled by playtech. So whenever you see a playtech link that begins with banner. - you know that this is controlled on the Playtech end of things. This might have changed as i have not yet spoken to the WJ guys.

    To add to the confusion , we use WJ flash games but take our games from Marketing tools area and these links begin with ad.wagerjunction .

    So an example of a link that we use for one of the flash games would be :

    htxtp://ad.wagerjunction.com/tracker.php?id=2704&affid=xxxxx

    The original link posted by the OP ( the banner. link) would have been taken from the banner settings area.

    Again in my day everything had to be created in the banner settings area before it can be used in the Marketing Tools area . Banner Settings is not very user friendly, so thats why most Playtech Affiliate programs will set up a marketing tools page for their partners as they control that page.

    Obviously as we use WJ games ( and other flash games particularily Brightshare Microgaming games ) on various Slot pages, i got concerned by the OP. I get quite a lot of conversion and a lot of business via various niche slot domains so i was concerned.

    I reiterate that if there is an issue i personally think that it would be a Playtech issue and not something that WJ would have done to gain players. I dont think that they need to use this kind of tactic and as the OP pointed out - he experienced the same issue at Bet365.

    It is a longish answer but i hope that i have explained the gist of it. Normally i lurk in the shadows reading posts here - i admit i am more of a lurker than a poster - and now i think i will return to lurking and working.

    I hope that has cleared some of the confusion.
    Last edited by theGman; 21 August 2012 at 3:03 pm. Reason: removed link from post

  15. #35
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    Actually the OP was asking about where to find flash games for his site.

    so far in this very short thread you have 3 other webmasters, besides myself, warning affiliates about wagerjunction.

    So as much as the g-man would like to make this all about me... it is not just me.


    People don't have to take just MY word that wager junction is NOT to be trusted.
    They have screwed lots of affiliates over the years just ask around.



    There are lots of programs that offer free play flash games, in just about every software platform. if you don't see them in your admin panel marketing tools just ask your aff manager, most of them will be happy to provide the flash game code to you...

    Just avoid wagerjunction unless you like getting ripped off and you like dealing with jerks that think they are gangstas...
    Last edited by lots0; 21 August 2012 at 7:53 pm.

  16. #36
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Actually the OP was asking about where to find flash games for his site.
    - Very true - apologies for that Mojo but i think you get the gist of the matter. My intention was not to mislead merely to inform.

    so far in this very short thread you have 3 other webmasters, besides myself, warning affiliates about wagerjunction.
    uhhh really. We must be reading different threads then.

    So as much as the g-man would like to make this all about me... it is not just me.
    Without appearing to be rude, i totally disagree, what you are is a noise maker who has managed to confuse and distract people from the original issue by trying to score points. This is totally not about you - i wish you would realize that.

    People don't have to take just MY word that wager junction is NOT to be trusted.They have screwed lots of affiliates over the years just ask around.
    Go ahead and ask - more wild fabrications.

    It is amazing that you quote you knew a guy ( Mark whatever his surname is ) at the original owners of Windows who were totally reviled in the affiliate world and really did screw affiliates. That was not even a real name - it was an alias for a Hungarian guy,whereas you knew real people at WJ and their real names.


    Just avoid wagerjunction unless you like getting ripped off and you like dealing with jerks that think they are gangstas...
    Perhaps you need to get out more. Youve moved from schill to gangsta in a very short space and have added precisely ZERO to this thread.

    Funny how life works sometimes. Anyway more noise from a noted noise maker is expected soon at a thread near you.

  17. #37
    Muppet is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    I am not aware of the link changing the next day - youd have to ask the OP re that , but as i stated the only way for these links to change as far as i was aware , was if Playtech changed them and they are not quick at changing things - well at least that was my experience.

    If i am not mistaken the OP posted this link

    I know that when i started the program on the Playtech system that link was controlled by Playtech - meaning that if any changes occurred to the structure of the link, it had to be done on the Playtech side.

    The affiliate program is not able to make amendments to those links. That is totally controlled by playtech. So whenever you see a playtech link that begins with banner. - you know that this is controlled on the Playtech end of things. This might have changed as i have not yet spoken to the WJ guys.

    To add to the confusion , we use WJ flash games but take our games from Marketing tools area and these links begin with ad.wagerjunction .

    So an example of a link that we use for one of the flash games would be :

    htxtp://ad.wagerjunction.com/tracker.php?id=2704&affid=xxxxx

    The original link posted by the OP ( the banner. link) would have been taken from the banner settings area.
    Ok, this shows you have misunderstood my post Gman. Oddly, Stelios from WJ emailed me with a nearly identical misunderstanding and suggested remedy. More on that later.

    For the benefit of anyone else who may now be confused as to what was going on: the link I posted is the URL that the user is redirected to when they click the "Play for real" button in the flash game. The affiliate has no control over this URL whatsoever. The games were embedded into the page using the exact same ad.wagerjunction etc format that Gman posted.

    But then that URL changed to add our tracking profile the day after I emailed WJ after not being tracked for months previously. Maybe WJ spoke to Playtech and asked for it to be fixed. Maybe WJ could do it themselves. I don't know and don't care. Gman however appears to think that the addition of our tracking profile to the link a day after complaining about it being missing is just a strange coincidence.

    Now how is this for another strange coincidence. This is an extract from an email I got from Stelios of WJ about this:

    Our Flash Games that we actively market also do not use the link you quoted in your post above. Saying that , affiliates are able to make use of the flash games via the Banner Settings with the link you quoted ,the way the Playtech Affiliate system is set up means that we have to set up the games in that fashion.

    We advise our partners and all of them make use of our Flash Games are in the Marketing Tools area of the site and make use of URLs as follows : hxttp://ad.wagerjunction.com/tracker.php?id=2704&affid=xxxxx

    It is a simple HTML code that allows webmaster to test and track traffic if they wish and we find it a better option than using Banner Settings and the URLs you quoted.
    Gman, I find the similar wording and arguments, the misunderstanding about the links being used, the wrong assumption that we got our links from banner settings, the fact you both used the exact same tracking URL with a game ID of 2704 as an example, and the way you both oddly and consistently leave a space between words and commas when you write a little eerie...

    Would you prefer I called you Stelios from now on or are you going to stick with the Gman schtick?
    Last edited by Muppet; 22 August 2012 at 12:38 am.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    Ok, this shows you have misunderstood my post Gman. Oddly, Stelios from WJ emailed me with a nearly identical misunderstanding and suggested remedy. More on that later.

    For the benefit of anyone else who may now be confused as to what was going on: the link I posted is the URL that the user is redirected to when they click the "Play for real" button in the flash game. The affiliate has no control over this URL whatsoever. The games were embedded into the page using the exact same ad.wagerjunction etc format that Gman posted.

    But then that URL changed to add our tracking profile the day after I emailed WJ after not being tracked for months previously. Maybe WJ spoke to Playtech and asked for it to be fixed. Maybe WJ could do it themselves. I don't know and don't care. Gman however appears to think that the addition of our tracking profile to the link a day after complaining about it being missing is just a strange coincidence.

    Now how is this for another strange coincidence. This is an extract from an email I got from Stelios of WJ about this:



    Gman, I find the similar wording and arguments, the misunderstanding about the links being used, the wrong assumption that we got our links from banner settings, the fact you both used the exact same tracking URL with a game ID of 2704 as an example, and the way you both oddly and consistently leave a space between words and commas when you write a little eerie...

    Would you prefer I called you Stelios from now on or are you going to stick with the Gman schtick?

    That is quite a coinkidink. I am impressed that you caught that Muppet. I found myself going back to look for the ,. And the tag cannot be denied along with arguments.

    I don't know what's happening here but I am hoping the GPWA will investigate especially since Gman is a private member. This wouldn't be the first time this happened where a program planted an in-house affiliate here.

    I'll give the benefit of the doubt. It could be that since GMan is so close to this program they have been talking privately and posting the same thing. The best thing would be to explain clearly and honestly.

  19. #39
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Default Omg

    Gman, I find the similar wording and arguments, the misunderstanding about the links being used, the wrong assumption that we got our links from banner settings, the fact you both used the exact same tracking URL with a game ID of 2704 as an example, and the way you both oddly and consistently leave a space between words and commas when you write a little eerie...
    Do me a favour - go and take a look at the first game in the flash games area where you can get an individual code and tell me what the link is .

    Is it such a stretch of the imagination that i might have taken the first game link and he might have done the same . Seriously man - conspiracy theorists abound here.

    You posted a link that can only be gotten from the banner settings area - that is the case on 99% on all Playtechs - so what would you want me to assume ?

    I think i will just stop posting and resume lurking - much less stressful . Go ahead and investigate away.

  20. #40
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    Actually I believe g-mans name is Greg G., he and Stelios are not the same person, at least I don't believe they are.

    However I understand Greg G. and Stelios do take orders and get a paycheck from the same person.

    I still have a little bird insisting that Greg G. aka 'g-man' still works for the wagerjunction parent company that is owed by our old friend T. Sagi, the biggest crook in this business.

    Also take note ALL the promotions on g-mans sites are Sagi properties... the g-man appears to be owned by Sagi.
    Last edited by lots0; 22 August 2012 at 10:09 am.

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