fulltilt - no affil program initally until march 2013

[poker-freerolls]

what do poker affs make of this? smart move, but huge sigh [as a poker aff] IMO.

[GFPC]

to be honest - I personally do not care whether they have an affiliate program or not. Historically they have treated affiliates very poorly as the previous company. Now that PokerStars is taking over it appears to be even worse. For example they refuse to pay affiliates for past earnings and their are going to be clawbacks on even player accounts.

The thing about it is - most affiliates will bend over and take it hard up the sphincter so they can make the terrible $75 CPAs PS has to offer.

There are so many other good poker sites to promote. I really do not see any advantage to pushing FTP at all.

[Maria F]

I think many poker affiliates feel the same way you do.

[bboyspyder]

It is sad that Full Tilt Poker threats aff like this. Affiliates were the ones responsible for making Full Tilt Poker so big. But as PokerStars took over they have another way of dealing with affs.

They think that PokerStars is so big as a brand that nobody needs to go through affiliates.

[GFPC]

Indeed most affiliates would feel the same way I would think - but I still think most affiliates will "BEND" and even though many of them lost hundreds or thousands will still promote them. This is why Poker Stars did this. They know affiliates as a collective are weak. As a whole the affiliate community is weak and because were not all together to stop these types of behaviors they will continue. Even GPWA is not supportive enough in their efforts to help protect the Affiliate community. Not that i fault them - they are just another affiliate wanted large fistfuls of cash. I get it

[Maria F]

It is like a vicious circle. These brands are so popular amongst players; it’s so difficult for affiliates to stop promoting them.

I do feel that affiliates are vulnerable when it comes to issues like this. This Industry is pretty new and perhaps in the near future you will have a union (unity and communication are the key) where affiliate will be able to demand the right treatment.

[grem]

But pokerstars appears to now own full tilt poker so maybe you can look at both programs as not being friendly towards affiliates

[GFPC]

Poker Stars and Full Tilt have both traditionally not been very affiliate friendly but because they were the top 2 sites to promote and conversions were very easy to get it was easy to make money with them. If you could get positions in google that is as it was fierce competition. 100% though both companies were not supportive of affiliates. On the one had they used us to generate traffic but on the other hand treated us like parasites.

At any rate FTP as a company is dead - and really Full Tilt Poker is Poker Stars just with another name. I would not be surprised if when promoting both brands you will only get credit for one of them. Not both.

Lets assume they do not offer Rev Share for FTP when it opens - do you actually think they will pay for new players who already have an account with them on Poker Stars. Likely not! On the CPA that is. But their rates were really poor anyways.

One other thing - they do not offer any casino/sports/ side games -- which really to me is another discouragement. I would really prefer to promote brands these days that offer the whole gambit of verticals anyways...

[Anthony]

I think if PokerStars was truely affiliate focused they would have paid the Full Tilt affiliates. By not paying the current affiliates and then planning a re-opening of the affiliate program, they put themselves in the same class as Grand Prive, IMO.

https://www.gpwa.org/article.asp?id=202879

[GFPC]

I totally agree Anthony - they are basically as bad - good point.

[DaftDog]

The thing about it is - most affiliates will bend over and take it hard up the sphincter ...

I'm glad you didn't mention the word 'Vaseline' in that sentence, you may then have had your post censored.

[poker-freerolls]

interesting perspectives. feels like promoting them is a 'must' sadly. I will personally be pushing them, but certainly only to mop up the dead money as players will all 'want' an account on stars/ftp due to their exceptional PR.

As for the idea that there are 'loads of good poker sites to promote' - this isn't really the case IMO. most poker sites are pretty rubbish [in 2012, this amazes..] - all that is really left is a few networks with ailing traffic #s and bad software [ongame = horrible, ipoker = horrible.. etc]

[Doolally]

I think if PokerStars was truely affiliate focused they would have paid the Full Tilt affiliates. By not paying the current affiliates and then planning a re-opening of the affiliate program, they put themselves in the same class as Grand Prive, IMO.

Well said Anthony.

[samantha.pacquiao]

It is like a vicious circle. These brands are so popular amongst players; it’s so difficult for affiliates to stop promoting them.

I do feel that affiliates are vulnerable when it comes to issues like this. This Industry is pretty new and perhaps in the near future you will have a union (unity and communication are the key) where affiliate will be able to demand the right treatment.

I second this.

[bboyspyder]

It is like a vicious circle. These brands are so popular amongst players; it’s so difficult for affiliates to stop promoting them.

I do feel that affiliates are vulnerable when it comes to issues like this. This Industry is pretty new and perhaps in the near future you will have a union (unity and communication are the key) where affiliate will be able to demand the right treatment.

Changes are really needed in this industry. The question is how can lead the affiliates to this and how things will be organized for this so called union.

[Maria F]

I think it will take a very courageous and stubborn affiliate to start things going. If you look at the history of unions, you will see that most of the time the person that gets a union going is usually very tired of how the system works and feels passionate about making things right. I believe that eventually that person will come alone and make the change.

[lots0]

After Black Friday I never expected to get paid from FT, They owe me... but I wrote that money off a long time ago.

IMHO - the FT fiasco has all but killed online poker in the USA...
Confidence in online poker among the US Punters, is at an all time low and has been in a steady decline since Black Friday.

With all the negative press about online poker inside the USA... almost every player I know of is avoiding playing online for money.

Most players(USA) I have talked to believe they are either going to get cheated and/or end up in legal trouble for playing poker online... All because of the mass amount of negative things they have seen in the press about online poker.


A Union... No way.
I can't even count how many efforts I have seen to organize gambling affiliates.

Most good affiliates I know are people that have 'strong' personalities, that like to lead or walk their own path and don't like to follow others.

You can't create a Union or organize a group of people, if people either want to be the Leader or they want nothing to do with being part of a group... and no one wants to be a follower...

[TheGooner]

Unions are for workers. People with a specific trade or job that might need protection from exploitation from employers. Retail workers? Sure. Coal miners and oil miners? Yep. Dock workers. OK.

We even see unions for very skilled people playing professional sport - such as NBA, NFL and NHL players. These unions come about because the players only have one league to play for and the unions tend to be a 1-trick organisation - primarily created for the collective bargaining talks.

Unions tend to be there to provide collective agreements for working conditions, pay rates, and unfair working practices.

Union's tend to work best when you have a similar group of people, with similar workplaces, and who are also in a geographically located area so that the mindset of the individuals in each local chapter are similar and can meet and discuss relevant topics.

When you have a group of people like affiliates who are based in 150 different countries, work for thousands of different programs, have their own companies already setup, with their own work practices, and are effectively their own bosses the discussion of a "union" is out-of-context.

The thing that drives most affiliates is freedom of work and individuality. We will resist compulsion. A UNION the wrong label and it's the wrong mindset for affiliates who are individual business owners.

----

However, a group could be created to provide to provide a sounding board, and a spokesgroup for affiliates and affiliate concerns. It would be forum based to allow global membership, and provide a conduit between affiliates and gaming groups.

What's that? Oh yes - it does sound a lot like GPWA, or PAL or CAP or AGD or GIA or GAFFG. But it's not

This site would need to be completely open and not actually in the affiliate advertising area itself - possibly/probably run by a non-affiliate. It could be funded by a combination of affiliate levies and program subscription.

It would probably become an incorporated society - I think that the US equivilent is a registered Association - so the organisation and website is it's own entity not simply a website owned and run by one player. It have open finances and produce an income and expense statement once a year showing all ingoings and outgoings.

Affiliate members could elect regional or area delegates for various channels, to provide additional intelligence to provide support for outstanding discussions. All positions would be up for election on a periodic basis.

It is a significant undertaking, it will take time and effort - much of which will be financially unrewarding for the officers that take part.

------

But that's all future think - and initially this society or association it would probably start off with a small group of passionate people and can slowly attract affiliate members and gaming programs.

This has all been tried and failed many times before - I understand that.

But perhaps there is now a better recognition of a gap in this space? As long as this society or association is set up correctly as an independent registered body and the leadership positions are regularly elected then there is a chance of it staying relevant and succeeding.

It's possible but the first few years would probably feel like a long thankless task.

[edgarf76]

does anyone know if there are going to be any changes as far as payment options? To apply for poker stars you need to have a player account and it they say that all players are paid to their player accounts. Has anyone heard about any changes to be made?

[addysaw]

It is sad that Full Tilt Poker threats aff like this. Affiliates were the ones responsible for making Full Tilt Poker so big. But as PokerStars took over they have another way of dealing with affs.

They think that PokerStars is so big as a brand that nobody needs to go through affiliates.