In God We Trust Battle

[PokerNations]

HE does and that is why HE is so awesome!

In the vast majority of examples of life on Earth, we see that females are most commonly the bearers of offspring. As such, why would God be male?

It would make more logical sense for god to be female, or perhaps both sexes.

Perhaps because men in power wrote religious texts to make females out to be troublemakers (Eve, the serpent and the apple, or Pandoras Box for instance) and solidify the male dominance in society?

The purpose of this thread was to ask opinion about -
Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center

Let's try to stay on that.

You are correct sir, it's difficult to not go off on a tangent sometimes

[Fergie]

The title: "In God We Trust Battle"

The hypothesis: Based on the following quote, presumably is whether or not United States should have a religious quote on their currency, and, if so, what if it were "In Allah We Trust". In other words: How many people would be against having a religious quote on their currency if it did not reflect upon their personal religious beliefs?

(By PokerNations Anthony) I'm sure there will be plenty of people who feel this is just stupid and not a big deal to have the word God in there. What about if they changed that instead to read:

In Allah We Trust

Would you have an objection then?

I think people have pretty much stuck to this topic(s), prefacing their comments with their own beliefs and thoughts in order to lend their opinions some context.

Interesting subject, Anthony!
I'm happy to see everybody voice their opinions without becoming upset.

[Jinnia]

So if you're ok with In God We Trust, you'd be ok with In Allah We Trust being on public/government buildings as well?

If this was a Muslim country, then no, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it is not, it is America.

Over a century you say? Wow. You know slavery was in the US from 1607 through 1865 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._United_States

Why yes, I do say!

The motto was first used on paper money in 1957, but it was was first used
on coins during the Civil War. I believe the bronze two-cent piece which
was issued from 1864 to 1873. I may be wrong, but will check on that.

Since it was around so long, why bother having an issue with it, right?

Wrong! Have an issue about anything you want, that's your right.

Most Christians wouldn't like it if our government was pushing Islam, Buddhism or whatever else upon them, so why is it acceptable to push Christianity upon those who don't follow it?

I imagine many people might have an issue pushing Buddhism, Islam or
whatever, since this is America, but who knows without doing a survey/poll
on it.

It's not being pushed on anyone, it's a motto. If you're against it, that's
your right not wanting it displayed, so go out and try to get it changed, as
it is the right of the others who are for it wanting it displayed and will try to
keep it.

[Jinnia]

BTW I'm not claiming to be an expert and won't comment on a lot of this stuff posted as it's not of interest to me so if I don't reply to all or a particular post then don't anyone take it personal! I just don't have the time for an in-dept debate.

Exactly Right GamTrak!!

I have 'important' things in life to do, like taking care of elderly people, making sure they eat, they are clean, homes kept clean, etc., THAT is important and very time consuming!

[PokerNations]

If this was a Muslim country, then no, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it is not, it is America.

Ok, so you:

1. Admit that you'd have an issue if it was "In Allah We Trust"
2. Equate "America" with "Christianity" and no other religion?

It's not being pushed on anyone, it's a motto. If you're against it, that's your right not wanting it displayed, so go out and try to get it changed, as it is the right of the others who are for it wanting it displayed and will try to keep it.

"in God we trust" is a religious motto that has no place as being representative of the government and people of the US, as it violates the separation of Church and State.

[PokerNations]

Ok, so you:

1. Admit that you'd have an issue if it was "In Allah We Trust"
2. Equate "America" with "Christianity" and no other religion?

No worries Jinnia, you mentioned you have more important matters to attend too, and you already proved the point I was trying to make.

[GamTrak]

What are your thought on the government allowing us that pay tithes to claim it as a tax deduction?

Ok, so you:

1. Admit that you'd have an issue if it was "In Allah We Trust"
2. Equate "America" with "Christianity" and no other religion?



"in God we trust" is a religious motto that has no place as being representative of the government and people of the US, as it violates the separation of Church and State.

[GamTrak]

I use the word HE, but it would make since that such a fair being would be a SHE. I'm sure SHE is represented somewhere in the Trinity.

Ok, that's all my time for today.

In the vast majority of examples of life on Earth, we see that females are most commonly the bearers of offspring. As such, why would God be male?

It would make more logical sense for god to be female, or perhaps both sexes.

Perhaps because men in power wrote religious texts to make females out to be troublemakers (Eve, the serpent and the apple, or Pandoras Box for instance) and solidify the male dominance in society?



You are correct sir, it's difficult to not go off on a tangent sometimes

[PokerNations]

What are your thought on the government allowing us that pay tithes to claim it as a tax deduction?

I would think that donations to any legally recognized non-profit would be acceptable for tax deduction purposes, regardless of whether it's religious or not.

My issue is with people not having a problem with religious mottos being emblazoned upon our currency and government buildings, as long as it meets their own personal set of beliefs.

As soon as the motto changes to something that doesn't match your personal set of beliefs (i.e. In Allah We Trust, In Yahweh We Trust, In Buddha We Trust, In Elvira Mistress Of The Dark We Trust, etc); only then do you have an issue with it.

As such, you should recognize the stance that Atheists and Agnostics have regarding this issue, as you can see the problem from your own perspective if the tables were turned.

[GamTrak]

Because that's just the way it is Anthony. The majority always rule. It's like that for most everything.

Take our industry for instance. If the majority of folks gambled online then we would all be extremely happy instead of fighting for our right to earn a living as igaming affiliates.

I would think that donations to any legally recognized non-profit would be acceptable for tax deduction purposes, regardless of whether it's religious or not.

My issue is with people not having a problem with religious mottos being emblazoned upon our currency and government buildings, as long as it meets their own personal set of beliefs.

As soon as the motto changes to something that doesn't match your personal set of beliefs (i.e. In Allah We Trust, In Yahweh We Trust, In Buddha We Trust, In Elvira Mistress Of The Dark We Trust, etc); only then do you have an issue with it.

As such, you should recognize the stance that Atheists and Agnostics have regarding this issue, as you can see the problem from your own perspective if the tables were turned.

Edit: HE just put in my mind about the Holy Spirit aka The Comfortor. SHE may be in that role? The Father is God, The Son is Jesus and the Holy Spirt is Her.

[PokerNations]

Because that's just the way it is Anthony. The majority always rule. It's like that for most everything.

So as long as the majority is ok with something, it's alright to infringe upon the rights of others, because "that's just the way it is"?

[GamTrak]

That's how we did it for the first african american President! I'm sure there are a great number of believers and athiest alike that are foaming at the mouth about having it 'forced' on them, but that's life. They have to deal with it.

Same goes in this situation my friend. I don't see it changing in our lifetime so it's a battle that is not really worth fighting.

So as long as the majority is ok with something, it's alright to infringe upon the rights of others, because "that's just the way it is"?

[AmCan]

Majority Rules? What about the supermajorities for cutting off debate in the senate, or rules for amending the constitution. What about the bill of rights?

So the majority votes that Islam/Atheism/Buddism, etc should be banned because "America is Christian Country?" Elections are settled by majorities, thankfully the constitution isn't.

It amazes me how blind the Christians are to the notion that other people don't accept their religious beliefs and how offensive it is to the minority and it's not Constitutionally allowable. How people can read the bill of rights and think that putting religious slogans/symbols on government buildings, etc. doesn't violate the notion of the state establishing a religion eludes me. Putting "In God We Trust" on government buildings, money etc. certainly doesn't establish a state religion, but it's clearly an endorsement of the Judeao-Christian point of view.

The government isn't supposed to be pushing a "favorite religion" no matter how big the Christian population is. The US isn't a theocracy, it's not Iran, Afghanistan or even Israel, which all have official national religions.

[PokerNations]

That's how we did it for the first african american President! I'm sure there are a great number of believers and athiest alike that are foaming at the mouth about having it 'forced' on them, but that's life. They have to deal with it.

Same goes in this situation my friend. I don't see it changing in our lifetime so it's a battle that is not really worth fighting.

Wow, just f'ing wow? Are you serious? This blows my mind. If that was the attitude of everyone, we'd still have slavery here in the US.

I'm sure there were plenty of people who just felt the slaves should "deal with it" and that it wasn't a "battle really worth fighting" because it didn't impact their lives personally.

Granted, slavery vs. religious rights isn't a fair comparison, but it's the principle of the matters here.

If we just accept the status quo and don't bother fighting for our rights, we'd still be burning "witches" at the stake and so forth as well.

Hell, back when your buddy Jesus was roaming around, they were crucifying people, why really bother fighting against it, no one is nailing you personally to a cross, so not your problem.

See, you have zero issue with something because it doesn't impact you personally. But if the wording was "In Allah We Trust" you'd likely object because it infringes upon your personal beliefs.

[giggles7p]

I would much rather see, "In God We Trust, or In Allah We Trust, or In Jehovah we Trust, ANYTHING, Except......In Government We Trust!"

I believe in God, I do NOT Believe in CHURCH.

All I have to say on this.

Pat

[GamTrak]

I didn't say it was right. THAT'S just how it is.

What can/are you going to do to change it?

Majority Rules? What about the supermajorities for cutting off debate in the senate, or rules for amending the constitution. What about the bill of rights?

So the majority votes that Islam/Atheism/Buddism, etc should be banned because "America is Christian Country?" Elections are settled by majorities, thankfully the constitution isn't.

It amazes me how blind the Christians are to the notion that other people don't accept their religious beliefs and how offensive it is to the minority and it's not Constitutionally allowable. How people can read the bill of rights and think that putting religious slogans/symbols on government buildings, etc. doesn't violate the notion of the state establishing a religion eludes me. Putting "In God We Trust" on government buildings, money etc. certainly doesn't establish a state religion, but it's clearly an endorsement of the Judeao-Christian point of view.

The government isn't supposed to be pushing a "favorite religion" no matter how big the Christian population is. The US isn't a theocracy, it's not Iran, Afghanistan or even Israel, which all have official national religions.

[GamTrak]

Like I said THAT'S the way it is. What can/are YOU able to do to chang it?

Is it life threatening? NO Is it worth wasting valuable time fretting about it? NO. So since you guys are STUCK and obsessing on it then be my guest. It's NOT going to change. Just because you want something changed don't mean it will happen so when that happens to me I deal with it.

This topic has begun to bore me as my view is seen as crazy so I'm done and will now un-subscribe so I can go work on GamTrak Academys launch. Buh bye.

Wow, just f'ing wow? Are you serious? This blows my mind. If that was the attitude of everyone, we'd still have slavery here in the US.

I'm sure there were plenty of people who just felt the slaves should "deal with it" and that it wasn't a "battle really worth fighting" because it didn't impact their lives personally.

Granted, slavery vs. religious rights isn't a fair comparison, but it's the principle of the matters here.

If we just accept the status quo and don't bother fighting for our rights, we'd still be burning "witches" at the stake and so forth as well.

Hell, back when your buddy Jesus was roaming around, they were crucifying people, why really bother fighting against it, no one is nailing you personally to a cross, so not your problem.

See, you have zero issue with something because it doesn't impact you personally. But if the wording was "In Allah We Trust" you'd likely object because it infringes upon your personal beliefs.

[PokerNations]

I would much rather see, "In God We Trust, or In Allah We Trust, or In Jehovah we Trust, ANYTHING, Except......In Government We Trust!"

Heh heh, well, I can agree I'm not a big fan of government either. But I'd prefer to just see the text struck from our currency and not featured on our buildings either.

[AmCan]

I didn't say it was right. THAT'S just how it is.

What can/are you going to do to change it?

Glad to hear/see(i probably missed it early when rushing thru the reading) you aren't endorsing it.

As to what am i doing about? Well i immigrated to a place where Catholic schools are funded by government and where "God Keep"s our land glorious and free.

pretty amazing huh?

But in the US i've always been one of those "horrible" ACLU members. And i have discussions like these to remind the majority what it feels like to live in a "country of Christians" (not a "Christian Country") when you're not one.

The reality is only the majority christian population in the US can change it, because even a supreme court ruling against these sorts of things won't stop the debate and anger. If Christians say "Yes, out of respect of our neighbors we'll leave statements about God off taxpayer funded places/events."

While i don't believe in religion or spirituality, i'm fine with people loving and promoting any of their passions; as long as it's not about hurting and/or denouncing those who are different.

[Jinnia]

Ok, so you:

1. Admit that you'd have an issue if it was "In Allah We Trust"
2. Equate "America" with "Christianity" and no other religion?

I guess you got me on #1, truthfully, I couldn't care less if that motto is on money and buildings, or if it is not.

On #2, I do chose "Pretestant" as my/a religion, ONLY, for the fact that the very first time I was admitted into a hospital, they demanded a religious preference on the admittance sheet. I belief there is something out there, but I belief in the scientific explanation of life also.

As for as being a 'church' goer, I am not. I belief in helping the human animal and ALL other living animals when they are hungry, sick, or just lonely. I go without eating a meal to give it to another. I have and will give my last dollar to another when they are in need.

Now THAT is my 'religion/way of life'!!

"in God we trust" is a religious motto that has no place as being representative of the government and people of the US, as it violates the separation of Church and State.

Keep up your fight, who knows, you just may get the motto removed, more power to you and the rest!

Since this thread was started about "Atheists", I wonder how many of them that's watching thier child, parent, a loved one say, "Please don't let them die", words as such. Who are they speaking/praying to?

I personally heard a proclaimed atheist praying for his Mother to get better.

Now, I'm done with this thread, I'm leaving to go take care of my Dad.