How much exactly do Aff Programs pay to go to Conference?

[AE-Martyn]

One AM told me awhile back it was extremely boring and he dreaded it. It's all what you make of it. I have a good time no matter where I go.

It's what they make of it.

Are you saying I should not speak up on these because I don't go them? It's not rocket science these things lol.

Yes.

[mojo]

Yes.

LOL Martyn. So if I go to one then I have your permission to talk about it? Too funny!

You could always block me or not read my posts. It works really well.

[AE-Martyn]

[QUOTE=mojo;666194]1. Spam - Conference spam?
2. Unable to get ahold of reps during the numerous conference days - I take my laptop and follow up every day.
3. Programs changing terms and claiming poverty all the while spending 10's of thousands on these - We dont claim poverty, but we do spend many thousands. Joke
4. More Spam - No thanks I'm full.
5. AM's taking off to conferences without paying affiliates - Sorry. But our accounts handles that and they dont go to conferences.
6. Conferences allowing booths to rogue programs like bwin - Alex is a bad man.
7. The pictures aren't my fault, I didn't post them. - Calvin Ayre has a lot to answer for.

[mojo]

Ah but you are just one man Martyn. There is a lot more out there.

Maybe that list will go down someday. Cross off some items. That's my hope anyway.

You guys are so funny, I like a good debate with you but now I need a nap.

[xecutable]

I am with Martyn on this one. No presence no opinion. Most business work like that, if you haven't bought the product you can't rate or comment on it. And where's the ignore button, I would gladly use it, as there's enough negativity in the world in general to have to read it all day here as well.

[AE-Martyn]

You guys are so funny

We're even funnier when we are drunk on free booze at a conference. See you in London

[mojo]

I am with Martyn on this one. No presence no opinion. Most business work like that, if you haven't bought the product you can't rate or comment on it. And where's the ignore button, I would gladly use it, as there's enough negativity in the world in general to have to read it all day here as well.

It's in your profile. Good luck!

[xecutable]

Cute found it!

[mojo]

I went to G2E. Does that count? See you in Vegas!

[grem]

conferences are worth attending and to say otherwise without attending a show doesn't make sense

[greedygirl]

I went to G2E. Does that count?

Not really. Even in the best days for i-gaming at G2E (2002 - 2004), there's never been the sort of concentrated, focused environment for online gaming affiliates as you'll find at LAC, the Supershow's, etc. It's really apples and oranges.

I truly wish that you would attend one of these shows. I honestly believe you'd have a different take on things and you'd probably forge some really special relationships that you might not otherwise have the opportunity to enjoy. Conversely, you may find even more things to hate about the conferences, but for now, you're just making speculative judgements.

You can't know what you don't know, Mojo. Hell--you and I could meet up and you might find I'm not so bad! <grin>

[casinobonusguy]

Vegas really does not count as a conference , sorry guys but there is very little group activity in Vegas .I was there entire week and some affiliates I never seen once *bonus streak where were you hiding lol?*

The best event is London IMO too bad it is in January though.Mojo I have given about $10,000 away to GPWA members down on their luck who I have never met ,maybe I don't have the right words for how strong the friendships are that we have with the people we meet at Industry events.
I understand though it is sometimes difficult to justify the expense but I think EVERYONE should go to the London event at least once .
Also I agree some programs pay late when there are conferences coming up but I do not think the few thousand on a conference would affect affiliates ,these businesses have marketing budgets which are probably for conferences ,advertising ,PPC etc.Even if they stopped attending they would not spend that money on affiliates.

[mojo]

Not really. Even in the best days for i-gaming at G2E (2002 - 2004), there's never been the sort of concentrated, focused environment for online gaming affiliates as you'll find at LAC, the Supershow's, etc. It's really apples and oranges.

I truly wish that you would attend one of these shows. I honestly believe you'd have a different take on things and you'd probably forge some really special relationships that you might not otherwise have the opportunity to enjoy. Conversely, you may find even more things to hate about the conferences, but for now, you're just making speculative judgements.

You can't know what you don't know, Mojo. Hell--you and I could meet up and you might find I'm not so bad! <grin>

Nice post GG and made me stop and re-assess where we are now.

I know I'm not the only one who doesn't go to these and we are presented with what we see. For awhile it was pretty much industry gone wild on spring break. Now, you know there are more than just me that feel this way. It's really not about me.

I think Alex has evolved it to focus on the knowledge with presentations, panels and other valuable tips. I find that encouraging.

What some of us see- trust me it's more than just me - is what the world sees that do not attend and that is presented to the world. Most of you posting here attend on a regular basis. If you look at it as if you never attended it would not seem so crazy to relate to the problems I've mentioned.

The value of meeting someone in person is awesome I'll agree as well. I met my better half online and when he finally came to visit he never left, six years ago lol. I've visited casino city and adore the crew up there. I've had players I met online over for bbq's when we discovered we lived close by. I've had gpwa affilates over for dinner.

It's fantastic to form friendships. No argument there. That can backfire though if it appears to be friendship getting in the way of business. Or they let you down when the program becomes poorly run or some other event. We've seen that.

But all in all it has evolved and maybe more than I thought. I agree I need to look at it freshly today and not be stuck in the past. Maybe then I will attend one lol.

The list I posted above is not speculative judgements btw. How many times have we had to wait until an AM came back from an event to get an answer or payment or what have you. And programs changing T/C's cutting our earnings but making traveling to these more of a priority. I stand by that.

I'll concede that I need to re-elvaluate though. I don't think you're bad at all GG! I admire a strong woman who will speak up even if we don't agree.

[giggles7p]

I don't usually get into these conversations about conferences because, it really doesn't matter to me what you all do there, I just pray you all have a safe flight out and a safe flight back. But i do believe to balance the scales and help wonderful people like Paula not feel so bad about these events would be if the posts after the events were not just about the parties. Showing everyone having a great time is fun to look at and have some real good laughs, which I enjoy everytime you all act stupid.....but if there were also some post or maybe an entire thead dedicated to the conferences themselves and some interesting points of views about what was learned, talked about and shared between operators and affiliates, might show affiliates that don't go because of the "party attitude" and not wanting to be apart of that, could see that there is in fact, business going on, and if it was shared with us when you all come back in an interactive thread here, it would be fantastic and would go a long way to legitimizing these events......JMO

[Betpartners]

I love the conferences, have been to three so far and each time justified the costs involved and trust me even for an affiliate it can be expensive.

Personally I think Paula is justified in some of her comments and does not need to attend a conference in order to make such comments.

Additionally I do feel it is slightly discourteous to give less weight to Paula's comments just because she has not attended a conference organised by Alex.

There is conference spam, that is a fact, does not bother me personally, but for some it is a justified annoyance, one does not need to attend a conference to be able to identify spam.

I can get as many as 100 emails from the sponsors in a lead up to a conference, yes I know one can unsubscribe, but not all programs have the option to unsubscribe from just the one set of emails, it is generally all or nothing.

Affiliates are fully entitled to question programs that are seen or perceived to be ripping affiliates off about how much they spend at conferences.

I am not that naive that I do not understand the difference between a marketing budget and affiliation budgets, though a strong arguement can be made that they are one and the same, but and it is a big but, from a PR point of view it does not look good when a program late pays affilaites or changes terms and then is seen to be spend tens of thousands on conferences.

Do not be mistaken either that generally speaking it is tens of thousands, the cost of the stall is just one single item, there is also visual rentals, PA rentals, sign making, stand creation, staff costs and so on, the cost of the stand is probably no more than 10% of the overall cost involved.

Now, it is none of my business what a program spends when it goes to a conference, but I tell you this, it is my business when you do not pay me on time, every thing you do with your money becomes my business, because while youa re not paying me you are using my money to pay for the conference or advertising or staff wages or whatever, pay me on time and don't shaft me and I will keep my nose out of your business, dont pay me and in comes my huge hooter.

Martyn, you may well have your laptop with you mate and respond quickly when attending conferences, but mate, seriously, you would be a minority, the times I get late responses and then the response does come saying sorry mate was at the conference, is far higher than the responses I would receive if the said person was not at a conference.

I do not feel Alex has anything at all to answer for, he runs conferences and is an affiliate like the rest of us, he does not run programs, it is not his job to police how they conduct themselves either online or in their free time at conferences and so forth, on that subject I will always back Alex up, I simply do not feel he has a case to answer here, at all.

So, in conclusion, it is my opinion and my opinion alone that no one needs attend any conference to have an opinion on them, because conferences do effect non attendees, that is a fact and the sooner programs realise this the sooner the critics will tone down.

Also, the idea that conferences are free for affiliates is very misleading, very misleading indeed.

To attend a conference costs serious money, try renting a hotel near a conference is central London, try paying transportation costs, it is horrendous and on this one I do hold Alex responsible to a certain degree.

I have never felt the locations are ideal, I understand the argument about airport hubs and so forth, but there are better options that I feel are simply not explored, maybe me and Alex can discuss that when we get plastered in London in January

Finally, while I feel Paula is fully entitled to give her opinion I do wish she would drop her position on the parties etc. Paula, your opinion on them is well known, no need to keep highlighting that my friend, there are far more important issues to focus on than someone getting drunk and making a fool of themselves.

[GFPC]

Next time Judy goes to conference in London I am going with her! LOL - I wanna sit beside her in the plane -as Giggles said she only wants us to fly there safe and fly back safe. I am counting on your Casino Bonus Guy!

I have decided to make it a point to set some funds aside to actually get to one of these events. I really really would love to bump paths with Bwin.

[mojo]

Pat, thank you for understanding and recognizing that this is important to me and all of us. I am not just posting to post. I am trying to make things better even though it is a tough battle. I appreciate you coming in more than you know. Well said.

There is a history to these events that perhaps no one cares to remember lol. CAP started them and I clearly remember reading there that 'you cannot be a serious affiliate (or program) if you do not go to conferences.'

It was there in black and white and maybe still there. I took offense to this as a new affiliate because I was pretty serious. I didn't understand this. I think programs felt the pressure too. Hence, here we are today with programs feeling they have to attend to be successful?

That said, I need to let that go. That said lol, I need to remind everyone that you do not need to go to an event to be successful. We need to move on from this. This applies to programs as well. I fear that programs STILL feel the need to attend or they are percieved as unsuccessful.

Let's get out of the old mentality. This is what I am asking. We are in tough times. As BetPartners said, it IS our business what is being spent. I agree that we could honestly care less what you do if all is well with your program.

There is one of the most successful affiliate programs here that will post that they are budgeted for one or two events at the most per year and that not all staff can go. Bravo. Times are tough. Let's do some marketing yes, but spend wisely.

Thank you BetPartners for your post. It's nice to be on the same side of the fence for a change lol. I know you post from the heart and what you really feel and I respect that about you.

BTW. I did not imply any drunkeness in this thread, please see my original post and subsequent ones. Someone else brought it up. But your point is well taken and I'll try to be good. lol.

Thank you very much everyone for your input. This is a very important subject IMO and not to be taken lightly. These conferences directly affect affiliates whether you attend or not and an everyday part of our affiliate lives.

[greedygirl]

This thread has certainly taken a turn for the better. There are some valid points being made and it feels as if there's more open-mindedness (is that really a word???) in this thread than there's been in prior threads on this subject. I know for myself, I'm seeing some bits that I may not have considered before.

I do agree about AM's falling into a black hole during conferences. There's really no excuse for an AM to not set aside an hour a day just to check on things and deal with urgent matters. If something is not urgent, a simple 'I'll contact you ASAP following the conference' would go a long distance. At least the affiliate would know you're not just ignoring them.

Payments should always be made in accordance to what the program has committed to, regardless of anything. A conference is no excuse to postpone payment. If there should be questions regarding payments (short payment, non-payment, etc.) then an AM or someone within the company should be made available to handle the issue. Anything short of that is unreasonable.

Giggles also makes a very good point about what is discussed following the conferences. Yes, most of us enjoy the nightlife aspects, but the conferences are about the work. At times it does seem as if we 're-live' the good times, rather than giving more due to useful information. I can see where those who don't attend would become frustrated with the imbalance of the party info vs. the work info.

Term changes and programs attending conferences is probably the biggest kettle of fish and the toughest one to tackle (sorry--bad pun). It's a discussion that should be had, but it should be pointed to those programs that are in question and really should not be a reason to cast aspersions on conferences.

At the end of the day, I'm just happy we're no longer worrying about the party aspect of conferences and attacking Alex for things that he should not be attacked on. The real meat of the issue is how programs treat affiliates and whether or not conferences may inadvertantly have a negative impact on these programs' affiliates.

[alexpratt]

*Small Plug* In case you were wondering why you should come to one of our events check this blog post out - 52 reasons, one for every week http://www.igbaffiliate.com/blog/52-...filiate-events

Oh and one other point re affiliates attending free - Agree there are other costs however the message is more related to the actual ticket for example the previous iGaming aff event organiser charged quite a few hundred dollars for a delegate to attend, A4U charges £395-£545, Affiliate Summit charges $99 - $2,749, etc. etc.