Ignorant Affiliates

[Scampi]

But your English sounds so good, apart from that one word!

[FruityJelena]

But your English sounds so good, apart from that one word!

Thank you very much Maybe that's why sometimes I'm so sure in words' meaning that I have no idea it actually means something completely different..
So who knows which other words I mixed up in my head

[Miles_FTA]

if words get mixed up in your head im sure they enjoy it

[Miles_FTA]

Please help Jelena Out and Change the Title Im sure she only meant good things as she is a good person and a good affiliate manager also

[Scampi]

Please help Jelena Out and Change the Title

If you change the title, the content of all the replies becomes irrelevant.

[Miles_FTA]

@ Scampi No it Doesn't she clearly explains that her use of the word Ignorant was wrong and due to her Language Barier she does not meant Affiliates are Ignorant and she clearly says that and apologizes for the Title it would be fair to chnage it to the way she intended it to be all the content of the post will be valid 100%

[Roulette Zeitung]

Dear Jelena,

don't forget the following: In the moment when the slightest problems with your program will occur, the applause will die away and you will see, that no one of your competitors will stand by your side.

No one!

This is a very normal process.

So don't apologize too early.

If you are very lucky, then this was the right choice.
But only if you are very lucky.

Otherwise your opponents can interpret the outcome of this thread as a sign of weakness.
And they will do.
Because - with a few exceptions - it's all about money.

Sometimes "misunderstandings" are nothing else than a special stroke of destiny.
Laws of chance, that plays into your hands.
Sometimes years later realization comes that things are not so as you thought.

I really wish you, that you will never have bad experiences.
But keep in mind, that you are surrounded by the possibility that bad experiences in this industry will hit you at any time for any reasons.

Leopold

[Syndicate]

A recent example of why i'm ignorant

-------------

THEM


Hi


I am L from company


What will be the cost of getting some exposure for the European championships on your excellent site.


Please refers back to me asap.




——————————————————


ME


Hi L,


Thanks for your mail !!


We can offer you a banner under the slider blabla -price.
————————————————————
THEM


Good to hear back from you.

Interested in the deal very much but difficulty I have is because we haven’t worked together before don’t have quality of stats to be able to pitch the flat fee etc, would you be prepared to do a deal on sliding flat fee scale according to how many FDs bring in i.e. for 30FDS receive 1000$, 50, 1500$ etc.

Being a relatively new bookmaker we have a large untapped market which means we should convert quite good.
———————————————————
Hi L,


Thanks for your offer, but we are a very profitable site and comfortable with the deals we have in place.


With regards to conversion - i have no idea how successful you will be. Nevertheless, i can sell this place today if i so choose, so why would i negotiate!!


At this stage i prefer to say thanks - but no thanks.


Regards
—————————————————
THEM


While I appreciate your position please also respect mine where I have to justify flat fees and my bosses where he needs some backup to approve the fee.

How about if we don’t achieve 30FDs in corals position keep us there until we do?




ME


Offering to pay what's equal to €30 CPA is close to insulting - Suffice to say it's not interesting, so we will pass with the offer
———————————


Hi T,

Asking for some sort of exposure after the deal has finished is not unreasonable at all – ask you to reconsider so we can work together, easy money for you.

—————————————————




ME


I'm not even willing to discuss, negotiate or think about it any further.


A deal was offered, you didn't take it !


————————————————
THEM


To help me get the deal pushed through that you have asked for please can you give me a guide on number of first depositors from your experience – all I’m asking nothing more.

Next you hear from me will either be yes we are going ahead or no we are not.

I really hope you can help me out on this.
———————————————


ME


It will depend on a number of factors, but from what i understand:
————————————
THEM


Thanks for this.

Will get back to you either way by end of today – please keep positions open until then.

Best,


—————————————
ME


L,


Very happy to agree to flat for June.

However, first, we would like to go on your site CPA of 45GBP for the next 7 days and then we will close flat fee for June as requested.

Best,

———————————
ME


The fee is until the end of june - and starts once payment has been made.


At that stage we would rack up your banner, write a company introduction and introduce you on the site.


TX




T
————————————
THEM


Can’t help me to help you and do high CPA + revenue share just until end of May and then we will discuss June?

What boss has asked – all for the long term J

Best,
—————————————

[RacingJim]

Syndicate -Great post and the perfect example of why I don't respond to these requests. It just becomes a long drawn out, time consuming situation where I'm getting my head pecked and not really getting anywhere.

[Mattbar]

Very interesting thread. I have at least 5 email addresses that I use for AM's, depending on which one you email me on depends on how you got my information. Cold calling AM's that come through contact boxes on the sites go to the bottom, affiliate managers that I have long standing relationships with have an exclusive email.

I do make an effort to read and reply where possible but it would take me half an hour ever day to reply to them all.

Our industry is all about trust and I think the best way to get through to us is by referral from someone we already trust.

[Miles_FTA]

@ Syndicate Point taken but at least you took the time to talk and respond to them which is appreciated by any affiliate manager and the basis for this thread manly also

[FruityJelena]

Dear Jelena,

don't forget the following: In the moment when the slightest problems with your program will occur, the applause will die away and you will see, that no one of your competitors will stand by your side.

No one!

This is a very normal process.

So don't apologize too early.

If you are very lucky, then this was the right choice.
But only if you are very lucky.

Otherwise your opponents can interpret the outcome of this thread as a sign of weakness.
And they will do.
Because - with a few exceptions - it's all about money.

Sometimes "misunderstandings" are nothing else than a special stroke of destiny.
Laws of chance, that plays into your hands.
Sometimes years later realization comes that things are not so as you thought.

I really wish you, that you will never have bad experiences.
But keep in mind, that you are surrounded by the possibility that bad experiences in this industry will hit you at any time for any reasons.

Leopold

Thank you Leopold for support and wise words
I don't consider a sincere apology as a weakness, nor I think I have the opponents (or at least hope so)
Hope I won't have bad experiences, so thanks a million for such a nice wish!

I cannot change the thread title myself, so if moderators see my message, I'd appreciate if they can change it..I'm sure it wouldn't harm the context of posts made.

Thanks @Miles my friend

[TraceyL]

To say my two cents here, Yes, I get emailed and yes, I try to respond, it's not always possible BUT what freaks me out is the following;
Case in Point ... (I have abbreviated content for sake of brevity) .... here goes;

Email comes in to my inbox; We would like to advertise on your website xxxxx.com, we have identified that we would like to advertise on your UK page, please let us know your rates for placing an advertisement on this page ONLY.

I then go and check out their website etc. and all looks OK with them, although they have not divulged their client.

My reply email: I basically send back a quick email request asking what sort of advert (size,type etc.) they are wanting to place on UK page before I give them price and see if it is suitable content for particular website.

Email comes back into my inbox: Requesting stats blah blah blah ... then they will make me an offer (this is a turn around! they were asking me for a price in the previous email) based on GA I send them! The kind of ad they are looking at placing (no size) is given as ... we are looking for interstitials, pop-unders and layer corners (UK only)

and then I realise, wait a minute !!!!! I don't even have a *&%$% UK page on that particular website!!!! DUH!

LOL, you have to laugh sometimes, but it is such a waste of time and effort when literally hundreds of emails come in on a daily basis (I am 101% certain this is the case with most busy people) Sooo unprofessional and such time wasters. Só what happens is you become more and more hardened to requests that come in from AM's, and you tend to start putting your responses to the bottom of the email response pile.

[MMM]

@ Syndicate Point taken but at least you took the time to talk and respond to them which is appreciated by any affiliate manager and the basis for this thread manly also

I don't think that's what Syndicate meant and I am sure he now regrets the time he spent replying. The pitch of what will be the price which turns into please send me the details and more details, and let's try on rev-share - is the way it always goes. Now i don't really reply those - I know that I'll have to start working sending screenshots and details to prove that the rate makes sense.

In this case, new brand wants to get a spot on Syndicate's site - they need to make a decision which risk they are willing to take, but not to expect the affiliate to take it on him.

[Triple7]

True, that is verry annoying. I got like 125 casinos reviewed. Almost every day I am receiving some requests from affiliate managers to get listed.

Brands that are something exceptional, I will list immediately. All the other brands (13-in-a-dozen white label casinos, non-licensed stuff, Curacao-licensed stuff, etc) I ask a small fee for making the review. It is standard in my reply. I want to have confirmed that there are no activity quota applicable, an account won't be closed and that I do not accept any placement requirements and that blacklist will remain blacklist. I will not remove a casino from the blacklist because they pay a fee. And I mention the fee to be reviewed and put on my website(s).

I mean, I have to check the website, write a review about it and than somewhere between rank 93 and 117 will be a new casino, where nobody is looking for, placed. It costs me time. Time for something that usually does not convert, does not attract extra traffic and in most cases will probably be a reputation risk. I cannot speak for any others, but the requests I am receiving are usually from C-class casinos. More than half of them were already blacklisted. My reply is short and clear!

Than crap starts, because they just do not read. Half of them start with offering 50, 60 or even more % to get a good place. The idea is not paying the few bucks for the review. Well, 50% of 0 is the same as 60% of 0 and even the same as 200% of 0. Or they ask for numbers, stats, screenshots, etc.

Hey. You wanted to get listed on my website. I gave you my conditions and than they ask and ask while in the end they do not want to meet my conditions, because they know their product is too average (or not even that). They have a standard and cheap white label design, some cheap license or no license and their terms & conditions are full of dodgy terms. These days everybody can starts his or her own online casino, funded or not.

Than most of them do not even reply anymore, to send next week another mail for a cooperation. It are also the people that are not able to give any answer that makes sense when you ask about terms or bonus terms they're having. Now this mails are coming into a mailbox that is managed by my wife.

[TheGooner]

@ Syndicate Point taken but at least you took the time to talk and respond to them which is appreciated by any affiliate manager and the basis for this thread manly also

Do you miss the point often Miles ?


What did the Affiliate gain out of it ?
A time consuming exchange of messages to determine that the program did not want what they original asked for in paid advertising.
Instead they decided to offer a lowball CPA.
No deal was done.

My takeaway from this email exchange is don't bother to deal with the newbies at all.

[TheGooner]

Here is my exchange - much shorter ...

---------------------------------------------

I had been receiving these emails on a regular basis for the last five weeks ..

At different points they claimed to have purchased ads through a 3rd party (a lie - we've never sold ad space to 3rd parties), claimed to be showing me revenue for "similar websites" (a lie as they clearly had no idea about our site), and made several other very dodgy assumptions.

The general gist was working with Tapica would be worth around $1000 per day.

But in the spirit of this thread - I decided to reply to this 9th email received ...

Hi,

Hope the day is going well!

I wanted to reach out and see if we could find some time to reconnect since we recently see great success with our similar vertical sites.

let me know what it takes to start working with you.
Please contact me to close a deal.

I went with a detailed response outlining what i needed ...

Hi xxxx,

I don’t believe that your advertising group would do well on our site – given that we would not accept 3^rd party gambling ads.

If you believe that Tapica can work for us – outside gambling- then please reply with :
a/ The top five countries you would target
b/ The top product that you would target for each of those countries.
c/ the ad format (size, media, frequency) for each country.
d/ The eCPM for each country.

If you are serious - please do some foot work and provide some real numbers and a solid proposition.
I will review your data accordingly.

Regards,
Paul Kulhavy,
MANAGING DIRECTOR
RED CARD MEDIA.

-------------------

Can you guess the response I received ?
N-O-T-H-I-N-G ... IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS.

Ask for specifics or a bit of hard work - and <ZAP> the AM disappears.
I guess at least I am no longer receiving the cookie-cutter cold call emails - so that is a bonus.

But really - after 15 years doing this - and seeing the same bullsh!t emails with ZERO follow up ...
I have some experience in this market.

THAT'S WHY AFFILIATES DON'T RESPOND TO PROGRAM SPAM COLD CALLS.

[Sherlock]

Now this mails are coming into a mailbox that is managed by my wife.

So you are getting divorced soon. I would not do my employees to handle my mailbox and I sometimes hate them significantly.

Gooner: those adcompanies are plague. It is their habits that are spread into affiliate business. Sadly I indirectly cooperate even with them and with very rare exceptions it is just horrible. Which means even affiliate biz will be just worse.

One "funny" story. Monday morning, I wake up, checking emails. Idk if you know device called "fitbit", it is a thing that measures sleep, steps etc. My resting heart rate is about 50 BPM. Only checking the email today caused my BPM to go to 80 instead of the 50. That is pure physiological reaction to bullshit.

[Renee]

When I first got in to this side of the business it was one of the first things I realised, I was sending many emails with very little response. I spoke with an affiliate that I was close with and asked the same questions you are asking now.

After around 5 minutes I saw things from his perspective, from that day I've always believed in the no hard sell approach. Sending 1 email or 1000 emails wont make any difference, in fact sending multiple emails is likely to annoy the affiliate even more and leave you even less chance of getting coverage on their site.

Affiliates tend to know the best fits for their websites, 9/10 times they will contact you if they wish to work with you. Of course it is worth it to search Google for new websites and partners but one email every few months is more than enough. If you work hard on your product (affiliate program) then the affiliates will come to you.

Just my two pence worth.

This is pretty much how I operate. I don't see the point in beating a dead horse, or fish, or whatever the saying is.
If an affiliate does reply and tell me they aren't interested, I do ask why only because I'd like to use their reason to improve our program. If they give me a reply I never hassle them again UNLESS I can offer a solution.

To say my two cents here, Yes, I get emailed and yes, I try to respond, it's not always possible BUT what freaks me out is the following;
Case in Point ... (I have abbreviated content for sake of brevity) .... here goes;

Email comes in to my inbox; We would like to advertise on your website xxxxx.com, we have identified that we would like to advertise on your UK page, please let us know your rates for placing an advertisement on this page ONLY.

I then go and check out their website etc. and all looks OK with them, although they have not divulged their client.

My reply email: I basically send back a quick email request asking what sort of advert (size,type etc.) they are wanting to place on UK page before I give them price and see if it is suitable content for particular website.

Email comes back into my inbox: Requesting stats blah blah blah ... then they will make me an offer (this is a turn around! they were asking me for a price in the previous email) based on GA I send them! The kind of ad they are looking at placing (no size) is given as ... we are looking for interstitials, pop-unders and layer corners (UK only)

and then I realise, wait a minute !!!!! I don't even have a *&%$% UK page on that particular website!!!! DUH!

LOL, you have to laugh sometimes, but it is such a waste of time and effort when literally hundreds of emails come in on a daily basis (I am 101% certain this is the case with most busy people) Sooo unprofessional and such time wasters. Só what happens is you become more and more hardened to requests that come in from AM's, and you tend to start putting your responses to the bottom of the email response pile.

If it makes you feel better, I get the same emails from other affiliate managers.

"I've looked at your site and I think we can work well together."

Last time I replied and said "Are you sure you looked at my site? Go look at it again"
They said yes and proposed a deal. "Casino Affiliate Program" in big text on the homepage clearly didn't stand out to them as being a competitor, OR they didn't actually look at the site. This really gives me the shits because guys like that give the rest of us a bad name. There are some of us that actually do research and personalise any contact we make.

I don't think that's what Syndicate meant and I am sure he now regrets the time he spent replying. The pitch of what will be the price which turns into please send me the details and more details, and let's try on rev-share - is the way it always goes. Now i don't really reply those - I know that I'll have to start working sending screenshots and details to prove that the rate makes sense.

In this case, new brand wants to get a spot on Syndicate's site - they need to make a decision which risk they are willing to take, but not to expect the affiliate to take it on him.

If I got a reply asking for a flat fee and I wasn't able to do it, I'd have been honest and said to let me know if anything changes. What's the point in harping on after the fact. Affiliates are not going to change their mind because they know what their positions are worth, and vice versa. What a massive waste of time.

Yep, it is a little demotivating when affiliates don't reply, but I can totally see why they don't. It's just a shame that we all have to be put in the same basket. It is what it is though and I don't see anything changing anytime soon. You'll get used to it Jelena

[Miles_FTA]

Do you miss the point often Miles ?

LOl - You do make me laugh sir .. Jelena Made it very clear that her post was simply to ask a question to affiliates which was do you take the time to reply to affiliate managers emails and if no why ? and if no isn't it polite or the right thing to do to just to reply and say NO or Your and Idiot or whatever but you replied and that was my point to Syndicate he had the decency to reply and that was appreciated by the affiliate manager involved and always is .. if we as affiliate managers then take the conversation in the wrong direction then that's our mistake and potentially we will lose the business .. at the end of the day if you do respond and you are clear and concise about what its going to take to work with you then that shopuld be that but we alos have to try negotiate better rates etc otherwise we would not be doing our jobs .

So Gooner i think i was very much on point when i said we appreciate the time and effort you as affiliates take to respond and a response in most cases is all we are after if your too buys or have no interest in working with a program then that's fine and its your business after all but Jelena was just saying sometimes its nice to get an answer even if its resounding NO opr F OFF or whatever