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  1. #1
    igami is offline Public Member
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    Default More Database Transactions ...

    The past couple of weeks we have been working together to come to an amicable agreement with regards to the exchange of player databases (buying, selling, trading.) Our understanding being that exchanges of that nature should not be permitted to occur in today’s marketplace.

    With that goal in mind I would like to bring a particular website / message board to everyone’s attention. It’s a message board which appears to be openly providing a platform for exchange of player databases.

    http://mb.startcasino.com/list.php?1

    Take a moment to browse through the listings and you will discover threads such as the following:
    - I have data for sale
    - Non-US database for sale
    - NON US Gambler Data
    - Database for sale
    - trade databases

    This particular message board is a contributing factor to a problem, which we have all agreed upon - is unethical.

    Thinking as a “collective’ group - what approach should we take, to resolve these type of issues?

    Possibly we can all come to yet another agreement?

    Further, I would offer for consideration iGAMIs work on developing a Code of Conduct - which members of the community are expected to adhere to. Potentially working together we can ALL come to an agreement which will improve our workplace and make positive differences for tomorrow.

    We already have several programs on board whom have agreed to enforce Codes of Conduct; seems fitting that those Codes be something the "marjoity" can agree on?

    Please Discuss ...

    Regards,

    Brian

  2. #2
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
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    Thumbs up

    OK, Marc Lesnick (who runs the website www.startcasino.com) as well as the Casino Affiliate Convention, just called me because Dominique called him to let him know about this post (thank you Dom).

    I talked through the issue with Mark, and we have a good resolution. Mark says he never really liked seeing databases being sold, but had not really thought of it as being as unethical as we at the GPWA agree it is.

    But as we talked through the issues he agreed he did not want to support those types of posts being on his site. He did a search of posts with the word database in them, and found that many of the posts were made by a fellow he considers to be highly unethical, and that really convinced him he really didn't want his forum to be associated with those types of posts.

    He said he was going to work on deleting database posts right away, but he has a flight to catch not too much later today, so he was not sure how much he would be able to do before he got back from his extended weekend trip. He indicated his search showed over 200 posts with the word database, so the process of getting rid of them will likely take more time than he has before the flight.

    I'd like to thank igami for a good post about this issue. It made it easy for me to have a very positive discussion with Mark, and one that yielded the outcome we all want: The deletion of existing posts about database sales and an agreement to remove such posts in the future as he becomes aware of them.

    I'm very pleased to have the GPWA be a forum where these sorts of issues can be brought into the limelight and properly resolved.

    Michael
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 22 March 2007 at 5:59 pm.
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

  3. #3
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    bb1web is offline Private Member
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    Hi all,

    I've made this suggestion before ... and will note it again for obvious purpose:

    whenever I joined a casino .... I used an email addy created for just that one place.

    then had it sent to a catch-all to make it easier ...... again for obvious reasons.

    so like when I joined casinoXXXX I'd create an addy like casinoXXXX@stevespretendaddress.com

    then I'd know when/if my addy was sold or traded.

    what I found out was the RTG .... apparently trades within the software ..... (keeping in mind this was years ago) .... and the addy's I had created for one set of MGS casinos (which it was said that they had an employee steal their database and I've no reason to think they lied) but I started (and still) get spam to those addies.

    never checked playtech or really any other software but I checked plenty of MGS casinos .... and the only time I had received spam was the one instance mentioned and I believe they told the truth about the theft because they've given me plenty of reason to trust them in all other areas.

    in any case .. you want to know which place is selling you out for a buck? follow my above suggestions and you'll quickly find out.

    It also lets you know who is cross-selling without aff tags without ever wondering if they got your email addy from some other source.

    Cheers

    S.
    Almost Here! How would you like to be able to get not just one sign up from your player, or even a couple, but every single casino they join from here on? I've a plan that can make that happen and it will likely also tell you every time the player is active within the casino.

    Gambling Affiliate Place
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    Casinos Accepting USA Players
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    avoid non paying casinos

  4. #4
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    A code of conduct for major affiliates to agree upon, whereby the selling on of player databases chock full of private information sounds like a good idea.

    One which will be adhered to by the casino at large?

    As a player, I would have hoped such an agreement be unnecissary.

    However, the gpwa, cap and most affiliates are proud to be involved with Cac, whose organiser cannot police his board properly. Lesnick has warned a previous member of the board not to spam the board, so it can't be rightfully said the man condones the practise, but that member has only posted more player info for sale like three times a week since and the poster claims it is accepted as an acceptable practise. practised widely by those "in the know, in the game".

    Until such practise stops, ie roughshod riding of privacy of the customer stops, dodgy advertising by "sponsors" of such organisations like this very one here stops, theft of gamblers money under "spirit of promotion rulings" stops, endorsed by Ecogra etc by FGA rulings, tacitly endorsed by the casinocity "good relationship" with Ecogra, the UIGEA is arguably in order.

    (uigea) Something you guys, guys like Todd (assoc of players, casino and webber) scream bloody blue murder about, touting the players right to gamble, as a front for "I want my money for old rope to keep coming".

    Step up, grow a leg, start making some noise instead of boozing it up at far-off industry conferences, and you might just be able to call yourselves "professional webmasters, who care for the player", from whome you glean your bread and butter.

    Instead, this player is "an unethical liar and a shitbag heheh". You guys, you make me crack up with your pompom in one hand and laudy agreements in the other, cheek by jowel at afternoon conferences giving it the big hoohah to each other, pissed as newts in the evening.

    & i'm being kind, putting it mildly.

  5. #5
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lesnick
    I looked into the issue. I saw that the majority of posts were by two individuals (or two usernames).

    They were both removed. The posts relating to the subject for the last year have been deleted.

    I've also added certain censors to prevent these posts. No guarantee it will stop it, but I'll be keeping a closer eye on it.

    Thanks for letting me know. I have been so busy on other stuff that StartCasino's message board was more like an afterthought.

    Marc
    Marc just sent me this e-mail with the actions he has taken. I think his swift action (I just talked to him less than an hour ago) is a good sign that he is taking this issue seriously.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

  6. #6
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    Thumbs up Thanks !!!

    I am moved beyond words, a huge thank you to Brian (iGami), Dominique, Michael, and the GPWA!!! Words cannot describe how I personally feel right now, true ambassadors you all are. Mark Lesnick I thank you for taking the moral high ground on this very important issue.

    Special thanks to Joeyl for standing up in the face of deadly odds. A small duck in a huge pond that was able to cause this wave.

    Player privacy should never be up for sale. Let’s make this a reality through a cooperative effort by all parties concerned. Put the issue on the agenda at all conventions.

    How we ought to behave is the true path to the good life. The thorn that has been sticking in my side has been pulled.

    Thank you all!!!

    Greek39

  7. #7
    igami is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    I think his swift action ... is a good sign that he is taking this issue seriously.
    At this point that’s the best we could have expected – and the outcome which I believe we all had desired.

    I think I can speak for most, if not all, when I say that we are gracious that you have had an opportunity to explain our position to Marc and moreover that he has been receptive to the concerns which were expressed.

    Thank you Michael!

  8. #8
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    Default Thank you, GPWA

    Hats off to iGAMI and the GPWA for giving us the opportunity to come together and make positive changes, whether big or small.

    Kudos to Marc for being so receptive and making quick changes when alerted to an issue. We could use more like him.

  9. #9
    igami is offline Public Member
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    No cause for thanks, at least not pointed in this direction

    If you want to thank someone, then thank Joeyl; he pointed the issue out to me; prior to that I had no idea what was happening on Marc's site. I was just taking advantage of the productive platform which has been provided - I figured posting here would get the most bang for the buck; fortunately I was right.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Top Work Ladies and Gents.

  11. #11
    AussieDave's Avatar
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    Any further information regarding this matter B?

    With the Spin Palace fiasco this week this topic really does need to be bumped.

    I see their still at it:

    xxxhttp://mb.startcasino.com/Data-Lists-For-Sale-1_11773.html


    Cheers



    Dave

    Edit: I don't wish to cloud the issue here, but, I see JTodd posts to this place too.
    xxxhttp://mb.startcasino.com/Seeking-Poker-Software-1_11616.html

    This is the exact problem & why spam and all the other BS will never be eradicated. Unless it affect people's hip pocket, no one cares about jack ****.

    I wouldn't associate much less post to this place because it sanctions player/email DB sales.

    Another ironic chain of events.
    Last edited by AussieDave; 29 November 2007 at 11:22 am. Reason: Edit
    ---
    Compliance: a code word for control

    ---
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    ---

    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

  12. #12
    pgaming's Avatar
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    Tragic isn’t it? People’s webwallets getting jacked, email bombs, identity theft, and God knows what else.

    Complain about UIGEA hypocrites I say for this is a far greater problem. Infected by greed these data sales pollute the very industry you upper echelons try to protect. Power truly corrupts the weakest of minds.

    Players come first? Yeah right to some their nothing but a swarm of fish in a shark pond. Sooner or latter this issue will be eradicated. Players should be made aware the BS actually happens. One day soon I hope!

    Been a board member of xxxhttp://mb.startcasino.com/ since this issue came about. Marcus continues his crusade of making his dreams come true while stepping on the faces that drive the industry, THE PLAYERS. But make no mistake there many more cowards who hide in dark spaces

    Player’s private info goes to the highest bidder! Disgusting.

    All I have to say on the matter the rest you can read about soon.

    greek39

  13. #13
    pgaming's Avatar
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    Strange, although I did not receive this email directly but it was directed at myself.

    800,269 in total 17,671 emails
    34 primary and secondary specialties
    Can easily be sorted by 16 different fields

    Price for this Month only = $385 [worth $1,378 alone!]

    *** Get the data below as a gift when you order the MD list above ***

    Pharmaceutical Company Decision makers in the USA
    50800 personal emails and names for decision makers

    Database of US Hospitals
    complete contact information for CEO's, CFO's, Directors and more -
    over 23,000 listings in total for more than 7,000 hospitals in the USA

    Listing of US Dentists
    More than half a million listings

    Contact List of US Chiropractors
    More than 100,000 chiropractors practicing in the USA

    reply to: alfin_md8999@hotmail.com

    above valid thru Dec 31
    greek39

  14. #14
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    It seems that the people posting have used more creative language with their positings, making their intentions vague.

    When someone writes something that is vague or can be easily confused, I do not have the time to stop what I am doing and investigate each post.

    As an affiliate, in that case it is your duty to post so that the threads intentions can be properly clarified. Then I can take action, as long as someone lets me know about it. Its a busy board, and StartCasino is not the only thing I do.

    What about this?
    http://mb.startcasino.com/Londonscas...e-1_10850.html
    The company is selling their site. Am I to delete it because you say so?


    In the case of the London's Casino post...sorry, I won't remove it. The reason why I made the forums was because sites like iGaming Exchange charge fees to buy and sell casino companies. I know others in the industry don't like that. StartCasino is a free and open board for the industry to buy/sell and discuss their issues.

    If London's Casino were to sell and the new owner decided not to honor the affiliate agreement, that is the affiliate's problem with London's....not StartCasino. Nor is it the affiliate's problem with StartCasino. If we brokered the deal, that would be another issue. But we don't do that.

    We play no role in buying or selling other than serving as a public message board. I do look out for the affiliates interest, and I have removed any post on StartCasino that is obvious in nature to be harmful.

    Marc Lesnick
    StartCasino.com

  15. #15
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    All I see is an industry forum that turns a blind eye to people whoring email databases.

    Nothing more...nothing less.


    Cheers

    Dave
    ---
    Compliance: a code word for control

    ---
    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
    ---

    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

  16. #16
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    Marc,

    Bull **** maybe someone will sell your DB.

    Brute force attack on unix would take twenty years?

    greek39/
    Last edited by CityGuard; 15 January 2008 at 11:33 pm. Reason: removed profanity

  17. #17
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    A moderator for your forum could be a way forward Marc.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    A moderator for your forum could be a way forward Marc.


    Insightful joeyl and a great idea!

    Though, reading between the lines of Marc's posts, I believe it would be viewed as bad for business.

    If these posts were moderated and deleted, it would certainly create a big dent in the stats



    Cheers



    Dave
    ---
    Compliance: a code word for control

    ---
    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
    ---

    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

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