Newb Casino Question

[ck8795]

I am really considering putting together some pages for online casinos. I understand poker, I make money based on rake. Casinos I am clueless so how is it you guys make your money...based on bets or just CPA.

Do those who dabble in both find one more profitable than the other or is it to each his own?

Thanks

[Doolally]

You'll find this has been discussed many times before in the forums here and the answer is always the same.... Shy away from CPA unless under extreme curcumstances. Most affiates always opt for Revenue share.

The way revenue share works is you get a percentage of all player losses. The percentage is based on the gross revenue the casino makes after the deduction of bonuses.

I guess, if you're not familiar with casinos, the games they offer and how they work then the best bet is to download one and see if it's your thing!

[TheGooner]

Kaus,


I'm relatively new to casinos too (18 months into it now) and so do have some pointers on what to do - where to start - and who to avoid.

Casino affiliation can be hugely profitable - because online casinos do make a large amount of money - like land based casinos the odds are nearly always on their side.

The two options are
- CPA (between $50 to $200) per person
- REV SHARE (between 25%- to 40% of casino take)

Revenue share is much more profitable in the long term - although it can have drops and bumps if your players have a short term winning streak - because on revenue share you only profit if your players lose.

There is a whole of lot of side issues to consider - such as programs who "bundle" their casinos together - and negative rollover each month - so choosing the "best" place to promote can be confusing. And depends a bit on your own site and your type of viewers.

One well known brand actually offer a 3rd option - were they pay something called TRUE SHARE - which is like a "casino rake" of 1% of everything wagered. This is a easy entry into the casino market - and their brands to sell quite well.


PM me if you'd like to discuss casino marketing in more detail.

[ck8795]

Wow, I never even considered that. I read on another forum where the affiliate was literally $5K in the hole because he had a winning player on blackjack and it didn't even click that casinos do the same thing.

I have to really think this one through. I don't know if I can push hard in hopes of a player to lose. Not trying to sound rude or anything, or seem as if I am..... I don't know. I didn't realize that casino affiliates win when a player loses. I can see why there is a great deal of "possible" income to be made.

Thanks for the heads up on these things. I wouldn't have even thought about any of that. I have my researcg cut out for me

[bb1web]

K, we've talked. I think you at least somewhat trust my judgement.


NEVER take CPA. go rev share!

the thing about cpa is either you're going to send worthless players which in case you're program sponsor will likely deny your income ........


or you'll send players ..... (just takes one or two .... I remember a very long time ago some great advice from the Prof that i'd make the majority of my money off 4 or 5 players. he was SO right)

and test, test. test. get a sponsor you've proven you can trust and push them. all due respect to surfers. ......... they're like cattle........ will go where herded. herd them to quality casinos that take care of players and will pay you. Casino Rewards and Brightshare are proving to me to be the best the last few years. they're smart. they make more because they realize the importance of treating their partners right.

[satya]

Hi Guys,

I agree with Steve and Gooner who advocate the revenue share model. Any affiliate in our industry with a little experience would always prefer to go for a revenue share deal. This is profitable in the long run.

However there are affiliates who also prefer a CPA deal.

CPA is for the new guys who want to make some initial capital money before they can go for a long term revenue share deal. It is also for affiliates who are not sure of their traffic or the ones who send incentive traffic. But there are big media houses and publishers who prefer CPA as a model.

It all depends on the objectives.

[satya]

Hi Guys,

I have worked with some of you in past and I am sure I can set up a good deal for you on the casinos. We currently have 3 casinos and we are launching a new poker site in July 07. The following are the brands we promote -
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><!--[endif]-->
www.SierraStarCasino.com
www.GiantVegas.com
www.RoyalDice.com
www.NutsPoker.com

Sierra Star is the newest casino and the conversions are great on this casino. It is on a Playtech platform and the following are the promotions available for players.

New player / Sign up bonuses -
- 100% up to $300
- $10 free, no deposit bonus
- Make 3 deposits and the 4th deposit is on the casino

Alternative payment option bonus
- 15% bonus up to $500 for using any of our alternative payment option

High Roller Reload -
- 25% up to $1000 every month

For more details, check - http://www.sierrastarcasino.com/promotion.htm

Also the players can take advantage of the generous rewards program and a part of Global Gaming Rewards (http://www.ggrewards.com/).
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->
Please mail me, I can set you up with a better revenue share deal. If the nature and volume of your traffic is good, we can go out of the way and set up with a great deal

Let me know.<o></o><o>
</o>

[rob3786]

Never go CPA, listen to steve and gooner. Rev share is the businessmans option long term revenue. This is the succesful way to build a good business. CPA sounds great quick cash but in the long run you are throwing away money. Many new affiliates go CPA, to see if they can make some quich cash out of an online business. Nowadays with the industry being more saturated, and the US being out the game, unless you are a serious blackhatter the amount of players you generate and using the CPA option you are unlikely to make a great income. Go rev share best option!

[TheGooner]

Hi Guys,

I agree with Steve and Gooner who advocate the revenue share model. Any affiliate in our industry with a little experience would always prefer to go for a revenue share deal. This is profitable in the long run.

However there are affiliates who also prefer a CPA deal.

CPA is for the new guys who want to make some initial capital money before they can go for a long term revenue share deal. It is also for affiliates who are not sure of their traffic or the ones who send incentive traffic. But there are big media houses and publishers who prefer CPA as a model.

It all depends on the objectives.

Full respect for Satya - who is well known and respected name in affiliate manager circles.

But CPA really only achieves one thing - short term cash at the expense of long term growth.

And through it's very nature of paying a lump sum no matter what quality of player it also means that one of the two parties (either program or affiliate) is either paying too much or receiving too little for the true value of their players.

-----------

As an extreme example I've been promoting a single casino from one group for it's LIVE DEALER PLAY. I know that this will appeal to some specific high rollers that visit my site.

After two months I have just one player - that's right just one - who plays most nights and has dropped a bundle on the games so far. But he says it's less than the business class airfares to leave his country and gamble - and far more convienient so he's happy enough.

(he prefers live play and seeing the cards, rouleete table rather than computer generated RNGs)

That's a tidy rev-share deal and puts the $100 CPA to shame. Again I know that this is extreme - but it is an example of the high value that some casino players play to.

Go rev-share - and thank Steve and myself later on when you start getting your cheques.

[satya]

Thanks Gooner for your remark.

Few other facts to consider
- 90% of the revenues in our industry is contributed by top 10% of the players.
- 75% of the new players stop playing after the first 3 months

Therefore I would say patience is a virtue which you need to have.

One doesn't get to see the high returns of a revenue share deal in the first 2-3 months time. But after that you will start to see your regular players generating you enough money. On an average your players should be able to generate revenue equivalent to the CPA paid, in 3-4 months time. After that what you get is profit. If you are lucky and have a whale, you will laugh your way to the bank for next 12-18 months.

But always remember Steve's advice -

and test, test. test. get a sponsor you've proven you can trust and push them. all due respect to surfers. ......... they're like cattle........ will go where herded. herd them to quality casinos that take care of players and will pay you.

You don't want to be in a scenario, worked hard for few months and realize that the program was not well suited/supportive towards you.

[ck8795]

Thanks very much guys for your advice and all. I really appreciate it, it gave me alot more to look into. I didn't think there was as much invloved with promoting casinos as poker.

Most sites I have ever came across for casinos has been a one page banner farm, so I am taking this oppurtunity to check those here on teh forum.

[bb1web]

Hi all (C)

actually a banner farm is not a bad way to go at all in terms of casinos .... IF you can manage to get traffic to the page.

consider ... you're searching for red wagons for your kid for birthday. Do you really want to know the entire ins and outs of how red wagons are made or why they're usually red?

no. you just want a list of quality places you can go buy your wagon and be done with it.

gambling is even more impulsive. truly good players ..... especially those that are accustomed ..... don't give a **** about the majority of what we all consider quality content.

they want to gamble. they want a place that won't rip them off. You list quality casinos and they'll come back to choose their next casino .... as long as the first one you sent them to ...... had the makings of a quality experience.

I have a friend who at one time was what I consider probably the top in our field and had like 200 sites .... that person told me the best converting site was the ugliest and basically a banner farm. and and ugly one at that.