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  1. #1
    helpyou is offline Public Member
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    Default Nofollow Link

    if you add "nofollow" on some external links, can your website earn new positions in google ?
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    Yeah sure...

    Some do this on non important pages already.


    Have any examples?
    "CasinoJack"


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    Using Nofollows to Link Sculpt PR (Page Rank)

    Page Rank is basically the level of trust and authority that Google has assigned to a website and each individual page within the site. PR is based off of historical information, sometimes months old, so check to see if the linking page has any links showing in Google for a better insight. There are many tools that have this functionality but I use Firefox browser with the SEO Quake plugin because it also shows Yahoo and MSN backlinks, social bookmarks, cache date and many other details that are important.

    If you are linking from a page (whether internally or from an external website) PR becomes very important. This PR, from a rating of 0/10 up to 9/10, is the amount of available “link juice” that you have to play with within your website, or that is being divided up amongst the links on an external website that is linking back to you.

    Trust and authority are determined by the number of backlinks from other websites, the relevancy of content on your page, who else they are linking to, who else you are linking to, and many other attributes. The little PageRank bar (see image below - if you have the Google toolbar installed) shows Page Rank and is somewhat of an indicator of a sites level of trust and authority as determined by Google, including your own website and pages within your website. Links from internal pages with page rank can be sculpted in a way that boosts the amount of PR, and therefore the rankings for the term or terms that the page is targeting within Google’s search results.

    There are two factors Google looks at; the PR being passed from external sources; and the PR being passed internally through links.

    What we are going to use it for now is sculpting your internal Link Juice to help boost your rankings for these pages.

    According to Wikipedia, the nofollow was intended to reduce the effectiveness of certain types of search engine spam, thereby improving the quality of search engine results and preventing spamdexing from occurring in the first place. Matt Cutts of Google and Jason Shellen from Blogger created it around 2005.

    What it does is tell the search engines that you do not endorse the page you have linked to. It looks like this;

    Normal link;
    <a href=’http://www.blogger.com‘>Your Link</a>

    Changed to a nofollowed link;

    <a href=’http://www.blogger.com‘ rel=’nofollow’>Your Link</a>

    But this has created a useful tool for search engine optimisation. We can nofollow the links in our website to preserve the PR and pass it on to the pages that we want to rank well. The ‘About Us’, ‘Contact Us’ and ‘Login Here’ pages/links are obviously not pages that we care to rank for. So by adding nofollows to these internal links, we can funnel more PR to the important pages.

    As an affiliate there is no reason for you to need to flow your link juice to a provider. I would nofollow all external links for affiliate programs and drive it to your own internal pages. (on a side note I would also add a link to gambleaware.com site wide in the footer but DO follow this. Who you link to can make an impact toward the trust you hold with Google.

    Another great way to use this tip is when you are creating new pages for niche or HOT phrases that you identified through your logfiles or Hittail. Build a doorway page off of your homepage. I use this as a ‘holding’ area for newly identified hotlist terms that I want to rank quickly. Put nofollows on all of the template/navigational links. Add relative content on the doorway page using your newly found keyword and anchor the keyword or keyword phrase (turn it into a link) to the new page that you created.

    This will funnel all of the available link juice to the new page, targeting the new term, and you will see your page rise through the rankings.

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    A number of affiliates have studied using no-follow on all external links and a few have had mixed results....

    The problem with no-follow on all external links...is that it shows the engines that are linking to a lot of sites that you say do not necessarily have value since you are asking them not to pass any value on....

    And I think it also shows them that you clearly are trying to "shape pr juice" which goes against their guidelines....

    Gary, you do understand that gambling portals are probably among some of the most UNIQUE websites that exist on the internet....?

    I mean...(as a rule of thumb) my guess is that Gambling Portals may actually contain more revenue generating outgoing links than any other niche that exists on the web....

    Like someone said in a post the past few days, although we may not always agree, I think you have stimulated a number of healthy discussions....

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    Yes but I'm not contesting that outgoing links are revenue generating. I am saying that there is no reason to send PR juice to external links when you can sculpt it within your own site and boost your rankings for the pages that target specific terms.

    What reason is there to help boost your provider? What you are doing is helping them rank by affiliate links siphoning off your PR to their pages.

    Some will even go as far as to optimise their banners.

    What could possibly be even worse, and this comes directly from Google, is that Google identifies affiliate site using the links you place that include the aff=, affid=, a?id= and many others. They have stated they use this string in its effort to identify affiliate sites. What are they doing with this information? I don't exactly know, but why have they made a concerted effort to do it? They have mentioned "cleaning up" their results of any affiliate related theme. This is why they push "content is king", and many sites using templates and product feeds are seeing residual losses in rankings. Some have seen none.

    I would be curious to compare notes with someone who had a negative reaction and did everything properly. I've implemented this nofollow technique on over 100 websites covering multiple sectors, both gaming and non-gaming, and although it takes a bit of time to react, especially on TLD's, it has always reacted in a positive way.

    Will this take your site from #5 to #1?...doubtful. But besides helping on the Hollywood terms it is an effective technique to use when you identify a 'hot' term that you want to rank quickly for like say a game Cryptologic launches based on their deal with Paramount. For example their new G.I Joe movie is soon to be released. Why not create a page for G.I. Joe slots in anticipation of a new game being created? (I mean it makes sense since they have been using Marvel and the Hulk as a core product)

    If you did this and built a few links, then sculpted PR correctly you could dominate this term. Even at position 2 or 3 you're pulling in a 7-9% CTR.

    BTW Forums are meant for discussions about this sort of thing. I get many new ideas from multiple SEO forums I am a member of. If everyone agreed and never tested theories and techniques, and then compared notes, everyone might believe everything they read without question.

    3 out of 4 comments I read I disagree with. If I have done enough testing to verify the claims I share that information. I do this quite often. If you look through some of my posts over the past 5 years at SEO Chat you'll find countless tests that I recruited other SEO's for, in an attempt to verify information that someone received. One example is a 3 month test we ran on social bookmarking and various suggestions surrounding it.

    Anyhow thanks for the feedback Rick. I appreciate that you question things that you do not agree with. You can figure there are probably a couple other people that do not voice their opinion for some reason and are thinking the same as you.

    Cheers Mate

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryTheScubaGuy View Post
    Yes but I'm not contesting that outgoing links are revenue generating. I am saying that there is no reason to send PR juice to external links when you can sculpt it within your own site and boost your rankings for the pages that target specific terms.
    Organic page optimization always do the trick for good site relevance for Google SE. However adding some outgoing links too in your site, no-follow or do-follow (especially the one's that holds your priority keywords for your site) can also serve as organic on-page optimization.

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    Another great way to use this tip is when you are creating new pages for niche or HOT phrases that you identified through your logfiles or Hittail. Build a doorway page off of your homepage. I use this as a ‘holding’ area for newly identified hotlist terms that I want to rank quickly. Put nofollows on all of the template/navigational links. Add relative content on the doorway page using your newly found keyword and anchor the keyword or keyword phrase (turn it into a link) to the new page that you created.
    I dont agree with this at all. Most of us strive for longetivity in rankings not something which could be shortlived

    Wouldnt a better idea for using those hot niche words be to create a new website based entirely around that specific topic. I mean there is no reason why a website shouldnt rank unless your doing things wrong, so creating a doorway page is pretty useless unless of course its to quickly spam the index and gain quick results which could be short lived.

    Its not always about who can get to the top the quickest but more who can stay there. I would rather take my time and know when I reach the top 10, my page isnt going to drop because I am doing something sneaky to manipulate the results

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    I think using a lot of no-follow devalues the anchor text that you use for those outgoing links, whether they be for affiliate sites or not....

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    If I understand correctly, I think there are two issues being raised as possible reasons to allow following on some external links.

    1) If a high percentage of links from a specific page are no-followed, do search engines view that as an indicator that the page is untrustworthy? I think the speculated theory is that a high percentage of no-followed links would be an indicator that you don't trust the sites you're linking to, and because you're still linking to them that must make you untrustworthy as well.
    I don't have an answer on this but wanted to try to make sure I understood the suggestions being raised. Have you done/seen any testing that addresses this theory?

    2) Can followed external links to trustworthy sites benefit the page that the link is from? If so, can affiliate links be beneficial if the merchant site being linked to is considered trustwothy?
    Based on my understanding of Gary's comments, the answer to the first part of this question is yes (hence his suggestion to link to gambleaware.com with a link that is followed), but the answer to the second part is no because identification as an affiliate link may eliminate the benefit or cause harm. Gary, am I understanding your explanation correctly?


    Started the post before Rick's latest one was up. So I should correct my "two issues being raised" summary to be three issues:

    3) Is text that is anchored with a no-follow link valued differently than either a) text that has no link or b) text with a followed link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryTheScubaGuy View Post
    Yes but I'm not contesting that outgoing links are revenue generating. I am saying that there is no reason to send PR juice to external links when you can sculpt it within your own site and boost your rankings for the pages that target specific terms.
    I respect your opinion, but that is in fact pure bullshit. The whole "PR juice" thing is outdated and misleading.

    Of course nofollowing your affiliate links is good, I'm not saying that it isn't. In fact, I always redirect my affiliate links with 301 and block them from being indexed with robots.txt. That is becouse my tests show G does not like affiliates.

    BUT: it is good to link out to other, highly relevant pages (not sites) with great content in authorative domain (not sites). In fact, that could be the thing that gets you the #2 position instead of fifth one.

    So what I'm saying is that

    - nofollow & redirect your aff links + use robots.txt to block 301's
    - nofollow internal links if they're not landing pages for any keywords
    - DON'T nofollow links that provide more content about the same subject your page does

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    BUT: it is good to link out to other, highly relevant pages (not sites) with great content in authorative domain (not sites). In fact, that could be the thing that gets you the #2 position instead of fifth one.
    I agree totally with this statement.

    It is actually the point I was trying to make in one of my posts above and the very reason I do NOT no-follow most links.

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    #1 - Rather than embarrass yourself using that type of language on a public forum, how about you show some proof of your accusation?

    #2 - I have a dozen people on 3 forums, one being SEO Chat with REAL SEO's that ran a test with me to verify the validity of this.

    #3 -
    - nofollow & redirect your aff links + use robots.txt to block 301's
    - nofollow internal links if they're not landing pages for any keywords
    - DON'T nofollow links that provide more content about the same subject your page does
    How is this different than what I just said?

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    Default No Follow

    If I understand correctly, I think there are two issues being raised as possible reasons to allow following on some external links.

    1) If a high percentage of links from a specific page are no-followed, do search engines view that as an indicator that the page is untrustworthy?
    No. No follows are for one reason - to prevent spam posts on blogs. Cutts and several Googler's have repeatedly said this;

    Matt Cutts: .....Another good example is, maybe you have a login page, and everybody ends up linking to that login page. That provides very little content value, so you could NoIndex that page, but then the outgoing links would still have PageRank.

    Now, if you want to you can also add a NoFollow metatag, and that will say don't show this page at all in Google's Index, and don't follow any outgoing links, and no PageRank flows from that page. We really think of these things as trying to provide as many opportunities as possible to sculpt where you want your PageRank to flow, or where you want Googlebot to spend more time and attention.
    2) Can followed external links to trustworthy sites benefit the page that the link is from? If so, can affiliate links be beneficial if the merchant site being linked to is considered trustwothy?
    Yes it will definitely help the trust and authority of your site (rather than just the page). Its difficult to say whether it would help your rankings based on integrating this ONE technique, but in testing over the past year we have seen it increase PR

    Based on my understanding of Gary's comments, the answer to the first part of this question is yes (hence his suggestion to link to gambleaware.com with a link that is followed), but the answer to the second part is no because identification as an affiliate link may eliminate the benefit or cause harm. Gary, am I understanding your explanation correctly?
    See above


    Started the post before Rick's latest one was up. So I should correct my "two issues being raised" summary to be three issues:

    3) Is text that is anchored with a no-follow link valued differently than either a) text that has no link or b) text with a followed link?
    Yes. Text with no hyperlink provides nothing except maybe relative content.
    Linked text with a nofollow simply says that you do not endorse the page or site that you have linked to. All the SE's will still follow the link, they just won't reciprocate any benefit to the receiver of that link.

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    Great thread

    I have to agree with Gary on all of the above, though i may do some different methods, I cannot find any disagreement


    PS, Wikipedia shows up top for a lot of searches, and 99% of its links are nofollow....
    "CasinoJack"


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    Yes. Text with no hyperlink provides nothing except maybe relative content.
    Linked text with a nofollow simply says that you do not endorse the page or site that you have linked to. All the SE's will still follow the link, they just won't reciprocate any benefit to the receiver of that link.
    It is my opinion that if the search engine feels they should not pass any benefit off to the reciever of a no-followed link, then they also do not value the link itself in the same way.

    What I mean by that is, if I had a blackjack page with links to some other really good blackjack content, I would recieve less value for linking to good content if I no-followed those links than if I didn't.

    I have told the engines that I want to link to those pages although they should be of no value...

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    Well said Rick.

    I just think that this nofollow attribute doesn't need to be over-engineered.

    It was developed for one reason, and to think that its being used adversely, or for the exact opposite reason it was created just doesn't make sense.

    The fact that it can also be used to sculpt link juice is sidelined by the fact that it was created to do just the opposite, and Cutts himself suggested using it to sculpt link juice.

    Additionally I have tested this for 2 years and there is feedback right here in this forum that verifies the fact that it does work. (or was that Casinomeister's? - sorry, brain fart)

    It worked then, it works now, and considering I spend a lot of resources on other less influential elements, I'll continue to use it...especially on things like 'hot' terms (ie. Posh Bingo, Wink Bingo, and every other VC that has a few bucks to throw at an aged pipe dream targeting bingo).

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    Well Google could fix it by doing just what the intention was, NOT FOLLOW THE LINK!

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    OK only slightly related but all the work the SEs to eliminate affiliate sites from search results is annoying when you actually wish to buy something and all you get in the results is wikipedia entries and other content with no actual sites with easy to find buy links.

    Perhaps I'm just using the wrong search terms however I would have thought something like "buy widget" or "buy widget online" would yield at least some online stores or affiliate sites.
    James

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    Default nofollow still necessary when robots.txt is in place?

    Hi,

    I hope it´s ok if I take the opportunity to ask something I´ve been asking myself lately.

    If I already restricted a certain area or page from being indexed by using the robots.txt, is it still advisable or even necessary to use the nofollow tag to prevent PR leakage into this area? Or does a robots.txt automatically prevent both the crawling and getting PR benefits.

    Thanks!

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    This is a great threat. I have seen GaryTheScubaGuy at the cap in amsterdam, he gave me great tips that worked for me.

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