Is there anything we can do to overturn this?

[VPJunkie]

Is anyone looking at this to see if there's anything we US citizens can do to get this arrogant & ridiculous US Gov't. behavoir changed?

Is there anything we, in conjunction with other countries, can do? The US is impacting the business & income of several countries with this.

Can we change the laws by starting at state levels?

I know these may seem like overwhelming questions, but it seems to me that something should be able to be done......

[Amateur]

A campaign to repeal the law is the only way to make some changes. Repeal of the Patriot Act as well...

Is anyone looking at this to see if there's anything we US citizens can do to get this arrogant & ridiculous US Gov't. behavoir changed?

Is there anything we, in conjunction with other countries, can do? The US is impacting the business & income of several countries with this.

Can we change the laws by starting at state levels?

I know these may seem like overwhelming questions, but it seems to me that something should be able to be done......

[mojo]

The new House is starting to make strides.

xxhttp://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/19/hundred.hours.ap/index.html

included:

In the Senate, where the will of the minority must be heeded and the pace is far slower, lawmakers voted 96-2 for a far-reaching ethics and lobbying bill that will end the practices of lobbyists giving gifts and travel to senators and require lobbyists to be more open about their activities while making senators more accountable for the pet projects they sneak into bills.

[casinoranking]

I know I'm not American but I dont think there is anything an individual can do. The US government is just too big for anyone or any other country to give input on anything. Corporations have some say but that's about it.

While this is a **** off the US has ignored far more important issues when there's been mass riots. This is not going to get people rioting.

What happened tommorow if the US decided to nuke Australia? There would be protests but then things would be back to normal as people realized they were hopelessly incapable of changing anything.

The patriot act killed any last hope you guys for democracy and unless that is overturned then you are out of luck. With the patriot act they can label you a terrorist for speaking out. If you speak out for animal rights in the states you are a terrorist.

[matted]

I hate to ever think I dont have a say, but I feel that is the case. You express views to congressmen and they reply telling you how they feel and will vote. Truthfully, the best hope we have is for a democratic (I'd prefer democrat, but what is important to me is they are not 'the decider') president.

I can see three things making an impact:

Offshore companies spending the US ad budgets on public education campaigns which explain where the money actually goes (e.g. not a source for money laundering or terrorist funding)

The Antigua WTO case being pushed again. Not likely to happen.

The US courts - either through the neteller case or other litigation - find that the US ban on internet gambling is unconstitutional. But with appeals, this could take a long time to be settled.


We'l see. I am taking a back seat and seeing what happens. At least 50% of the market (international) is still out there.

[Amateur]

I know I'm not American but I dont think there is anything an individual can do. The US government is just too big for anyone or any other country to give input on anything. Corporations have some say but that's about it....

I cannot agree with that. There are too many times when people have decided to take a stand and made all the difference! The latest election is a recent example of people getting fed up.

If online players made the effort, you bet we could change things.

[Ziggy]

I agree, as well, Matt. The courts, if they don't share a brain like the Executive Branch of the U.S. government, may have enough sense to decide to leave alone other country's citizens and their businesses who happen to come here.

Its the American people making a (free) choice to enter into a business transaction online. What happened to freedom? I have never seen such an assault on freedom and privacy by any administration. on U.S. citizens as this current one.

[Amateur]

... At least 50% of the market (international) is still out there.

Matt,

I think you will discover that International is only 25-30% of the market. The vast majority of online gambling is from the US.

At some point, if not about online gambling, then there will be some other assualt on civil liberties that will demand an end to this form of "fascism".

[Ziggy]

As defined, a "fascist regime" is foremost an authoritarian form of government.

You are correct in your assertion, Amateur. Although, IMO, authoritarian is much too kind a word to describe the current government in the U.S.

[matted]

At some point (and we are heading down this path) the American people will get fed up with all their civil liberties being taken away for 'national security.'

Luckily, we have democrats back in congress... And there is an increasing awareness of ethics... Which includes the judicial branch.

Amateur - all the reports I've seen (granted, they have media bias) have reported the US gambling receipts at 6B and the worldwide take at 12B. Granted, that is all online gaming - not just the casinos we promote (which probably have more US slant).

I really think the neteller case is actually the best chance we have to open the industry back up. I know it is a pipe dream, but I really hope the judge quickly throws this case out on constitutional grounds! Should that happens, it actually will have far reaching effects into UIGEA.

[Anthony]

Our government at work.
We as gamblers/webmasters outnumber any special interest group that opposes gambling.
Please help us fight for your rights.

Join The Association of Players, Casinos, and Webmasters - APCW.org for FREE.
With large numbers behind us we can fight for change, don't sit by while the government takes away your freedoms!

[VPJunkie]

"If you want to cook a frog, never throw it into a pot of boiling water; it'll jump right back out.
Put it in a pot of cold water and slowly heat it up - the frog will never notice it's being cooked."

That's what's going on with Americans now; we're being cooked slowly. It started small with things like seatbelts & helmets - now we've moved on to smoking, apparenly the blight of all America. (alcohol never kills anyone, don't ya know...)

The US Patriot Act was a "good" thing, made to protect us - or was it? Bush has used that to do anything he's wanted to, without disclosure to the public. Did you all miss the news last week about how they've been examining & monitoring the bank accounts of millions of Americans without disclosure??

And we just sit back and slowly cook......

------------------------------------------------------

We have a Democratic congress now - would it help if players express their anger over this to our reps?

There are also online petitions these days - do you think it would help? Can it hurt?

[Badlands]

Cindy wrote:

"now we've moved on to smoking, apparenly the blight of all America."

You and I have both lived in the Bay Area, and we both know about the dozens of restrictions that have been put on smoking by the government.

[matted]

But, secondhand smoke has been found dangerous. So your smoking does affect my health. My responsible gambling doesn't affect anyone except me.

[VPJunkie]

You missed the point, Matted.... The point is the gov't slowly taking away all our personal freedoms, small bit by small bit, in the name of "safety". That's the excuse they're using to take away our right to gamble in our homes. And those who think it's a good thing are closing their eyes to being cooked slowly.

As to smoking.... solid particle pollution, poisonous gases emitted by the burning off of crops, chemicals, insecticides, & emissions released into the air - the gov't doesn't want anyone discussing those things, so they choose the smoking of tobacco to blame. (I worked on a "secret" contract back in 1984 that measured the amount of poisonous gases emitted into the air by the burning off the rice straw in the Central Valley of Calif and how it was blown into the Bay area where it was trapped by incoming ocean air.)

And I don't drink, but I'm subjected to drunk drivers wayyyyyy too much. Is that fair? Why did the gov't decide to attack tobacco but not alcohol, which causes just as much, if not more, damage & death to others?

[Ziggy]

Sly is on a roll -

And, wasn't it last year that Bush said there was no global warming and the U.S. refused to sign the Kyoto accord which would require countries to reduce green house gasses that are crippling the ozone layer?

Has anyone noticed how warm it has been this winter?

[Excuse me while I knock on the Oval office door: "Yo, Nimord, wake up!"]

[OnlineCasino-Guide.com]

Hey Everyone...

I think the real problem is none of us ever took this seriously. I've been in this business since '99 and I've watched proposed leglislation come and go, every year for that entire time ---I just assumed it would always get tied up and would never pass.

...That was OUR fatal mistake!

Look at the NRA, any time even the simplest, most logical piece of legislation is floated, they're all over it. They don't let anything go without a fight... They know, that anytime additional regulations are passed, more of their gun toting rights are chipped away.

The WTO decision is supposed to be announced in the next couple of days, assuming it's in Antigua' favor, there will be a little more pressure put on the Bush regime ---will it do any good? Probably not - hey, we're the United States our government can do whatever it wants, regardless of the aggreements we may have signed.

As far as I'm concerned, I haven't touched any of my gambling sites since November. If I were younger and single I'd probably be fighting this more, as it stands now, I have mortages, car payments etc... I'm focusing my time on finding other niches ....so I don't wind up working at MacDonalds.

[Tony]

Like Dave said is a little to late we all knew is coming but no one did anything about it and from what I know from my other business you are not going to get anything out of your government if you don't pay, the only reason lobbyist exist. My beef is okay the little guys like me who try to make few dollars, can’t do this, what happen to all this big money making business like Neteller, all the casinos even the banks they all lost business big time???

[Topboss]

I think the real problem is none of us ever took this seriously. I've been in this business since '99 and I've watched proposed leglislation come and go, every year for that entire time ---I just assumed it would always get tied up and would never pass.

...That was OUR fatal mistake!

You are being too hard on yourself. Lets face it - Do you really think there is anything you could have done even if you acted earlier? Unfortunately you are dealing with the US Government here who believe they are God and rule the whole world - not just the USA .
Why does each country have their own presidents , because it seems that we are all bound by the US Law !!!! I wonder if they will have a voting paper for "Bush" in the next UK / German / French elections ??!!
Although I am in South Africa - I may as well be a USA Citizen as I am being effected just as badly as my unfortunate counterparts . Granted I don't have the Neteller problem that the American Affiliates have , but the bulk of my income is still derived from USA Players which is rapidly diminishing. ( Just my luck - I finally get my first whale at Wager Junction - and 5 days later they have to lock the players account )
I'm pretty sure that I am not the only NON US Affiliate that is feeling like this either. I wish the rest of the world could sue the USA Government for the loss of income they have caused millions of people worldwide .

[OnlineCasino-Guide.com]

You are being too hard on yourself. Lets face it - Do you really think there is anything you could have done even if you acted earlier?

I think we should have done more to communicate with our visitors what was happening behind the scenes in Washington. Remember, year after year, these bills would work there way through the house and senate with little or no news coverage - that of course, was by design. We watched because our businesses were at stake - but the general population never had a clue what was going.


What I'm saying is that if we had been more vocal as a group --consistantly pounding this into our visitors. And the casinos and affiliate programs should have been involved too.

Unfortunately you are dealing with the US Government here who believe they are God and rule the whole world - not just the USA.

Agree with you there. But, this leglislation has about as much to do with God as the war in Iraq had to do with "weapons of mass destruction".